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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Registered: 05/30/21
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What is your opinion of professional psychotherapy? * 2
    #27354669 - 06/19/21 01:40 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

The idea of professional therapy has always struck me as distasteful. I get good advice from friends, family and people I respect. Why would I expect good advice from someone I have to pay to even see me, who only has time for me one hour a week and who doesn't think of me as a friend or trust me with their personal number? The idea of 'detachment' used by therapists seems counterproductive. The more I trust someone the more I open up and talk. I don't want to tell my problems to some detached stand-in; I might as well write in my private journal if I'm not going to talk to a true friend.

The methods used by therapists don't seem as sophisticated as they claim. There seems to be 10 new 'state of the art' methods introduced every year, but they're all just longwinded ways of saying 'talk it out'. It seems like the actual method doesn't matter. Back when Freud introduced his form of therapy based on pseudoscience it worked well for people. The only reason Freudian therapy works less well than these new methods seems to be that people don't believe in it anymore. It seems to me that all these methods only work for those who go in believing therapy is 'science based' and will work, so they're just forms of the placebo effect.

I've had this same opinion since an early age and have always refused any suggestions that this would help any of my problems. Yet I have seen in some circles that people act like therapy is an amazing cure for all mental ills, and like I'm a monster for saying otherwise. I was curious what you all feel about this. I understand that it works for some people, maybe for some people it appeals to them. But therapy is not for me, and some of these therapy proselytizers just can't accept that it isn't for everyone. They almost treat it like a religion where if you don't think therapy is the best ever you're an apostate.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What is your opinion of professional psychotherapy? [Re: CreonAntigone] * 2
    #27354766 - 06/19/21 04:14 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

it's not for advice at all.

instead, it can be an excursion through your mind, with a safe co-pilot, to discover what is important to you, and help sort through your issues.


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Offlinemycot
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Re: What is your opinion of professional psychotherapy? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27354797 - 06/19/21 05:35 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

I'm tossing it up.
Go to a professional therapist, go to church, or go to a newage workshop.

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InvisibleFerdinando
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Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,695
Re: What is your opinion of professional psychotherapy? [Re: mycot]
    #27354827 - 06/19/21 06:13 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

it is very effective for getting it better
I had it ok every week because I saw a psychologist every week
it reduces suffering
and makes you more happy


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What is your opinion of professional psychotherapy? [Re: mycot]
    #27354842 - 06/19/21 06:37 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mycot said:
I'm tossing it up.
Go to a professional therapist, go to church, or go to a newage workshop.



might need a therapist just to figure that out, haha :laugh:


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleSwing2
Let it rain

Registered: 06/07/21
Posts: 172
Re: What is your opinion of professional psychotherapy? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27354995 - 06/19/21 09:33 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Distasteful is immeasurably mild a term in my mind.

What do I think?

Think it should be gone.

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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: What is your opinion of professional psychotherapy? [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #27355849 - 06/19/21 11:48 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Most people that reject ideas proposed by psychology exemplify precisely why a balanced psychiatrist (very hard to find) is needed or it becomes fruitless.

Almost everyone that has a negative opinion on psychology is ironically exemplifying a quality which can indeed explain behavioral blocks.

The problem becomes navigating propaganda and building rational models of the mind.

I've been attempting to do so for 11+ years in my practice now.

I hope to release my tome of a book on navigating the bullshit present in nutritional, pharmaceutical, and psychotherapy paradigms that keep people low-conscious victims being farmed for corporate profit instead of longterm help/genuine curing of issues.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: What is your opinion of professional psychotherapy? [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #27355927 - 06/20/21 01:38 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

CreonAntigone said:


I've had this same opinion since an early age .... Yet I have seen in some circles that people act like therapy is an amazing cure for all mental ills, and like I'm a monster for saying otherwise. I was curious what you all feel about this. I understand that it works for some people, maybe for some people it appeals to them. But therapy is not for me, ....




It seems very apparent you've already made up your mind. But you have a tiny bit of doubt. So the question arises ...why this doubt? Obviously because you have some issue too personal or even hidden from yourself to mention.

To expect someone randomly to describe the same issue(s) you of course don't have, and then to relate an exciting story of how a therapist that just happens to live in your town, cured them, and their whole life drastically improved, seems so unlikely a fantasy, that no one could possibly suspect you of ever having had such a fantasy. Given this  obvious fact why the question has been posted where the best that can be hoped for is an endless argument on theoretical grounds, seems peculiar.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What is your opinion of professional psychotherapy? [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27356017 - 06/20/21 04:32 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Most people that reject ideas proposed by psychology exemplify precisely why a balanced psychiatrist (very hard to find) is needed or it becomes fruitless.

Almost everyone that has a negative opinion on psychology is ironically exemplifying a quality which can indeed explain behavioral blocks.

The problem becomes navigating propaganda and building rational models of the mind.
...



looking forward to atome of a book.
but seriously, this is important,
nobody is 100% balanced or perfect, but
sessions of safe conversation with dedicated (not perfect) trauma helpers lead to functional mental integration of trauma.

Functional mental integration after trauma-influenced psychological issues does not edit the past, but makes the present and future more open, and memories of pain reaction less immersively compelling.

this works with any model of mind.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleSwing2
Let it rain

Registered: 06/07/21
Posts: 172
Re: What is your opinion of professional psychotherapy? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27356120 - 06/20/21 07:48 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

The rapist? Nah I do not like the rapist. Psycho, the rapist? Even worse.

Maybe you could say I am being too negative on them.

But I know if any of them were a healer, they would not be in the profession.

I think it's easy to say that none of them are healers or know how to heal (which is not that difficult)... how to heal?

I won't answer but that is an important question that every human should ask or find out.

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InvisibleSwing2
Let it rain

Registered: 06/07/21
Posts: 172
Re: What is your opinion of professional psychotherapy? [Re: Swing2]
    #27356121 - 06/20/21 07:49 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

If the patient is cured, they do not get paid, so... follow the money.

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InvisibleSwing2
Let it rain

Registered: 06/07/21
Posts: 172
Re: What is your opinion of professional psychotherapy? [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #27356129 - 06/20/21 07:53 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

CreonAntigone said:
The idea of professional therapy has always struck me as distasteful. I get good advice from friends, family and people I respect. Why would I expect good advice from someone I have to pay to even see me, who only has time for me one hour a week and who doesn't think of me as a friend or trust me with their personal number? The idea of 'detachment' used by therapists seems counterproductive. The more I trust someone the more I open up and talk. I don't want to tell my problems to some detached stand-in; I might as well write in my private journal if I'm not going to talk to a true friend.

The methods used by therapists don't seem as sophisticated as they claim. There seems to be 10 new 'state of the art' methods introduced every year, but they're all just longwinded ways of saying 'talk it out'. It seems like the actual method doesn't matter. Back when Freud introduced his form of therapy based on pseudoscience it worked well for people. The only reason Freudian therapy works less well than these new methods seems to be that people don't believe in it anymore. It seems to me that all these methods only work for those who go in believing therapy is 'science based' and will work, so they're just forms of the placebo effect.

I've had this same opinion since an early age and have always refused any suggestions that this would help any of my problems. Yet I have seen in some circles that people act like therapy is an amazing cure for all mental ills, and like I'm a monster for saying otherwise. I was curious what you all feel about this. I understand that it works for some people, maybe for some people it appeals to them. But therapy is not for me, and some of these therapy proselytizers just can't accept that it isn't for everyone. They almost treat it like a religion where if you don't think therapy is the best ever you're an apostate.




My good man, (or woman or etc), thanks for your post. 

My main problems are severalfold:

1. There is no financial impetus for curing patients.
2. The majority have never experienced healing or understand it at all, they did not pursue this.

They pursued money, position, power, etc. And the pursuit of these is in general tendency opposite from healing.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Posts: 38,061
Re: What is your opinion of professional psychotherapy? [Re: Swing2]
    #27356177 - 06/20/21 08:31 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

I suppose you did some research and are not just spouting attitude.

mental illness is usually chronic.
which means it needs regular sessions.
a single magical pass does not compete with the years of revisiting trauma.

no single method in the world works against a lifetime of habitual aching. it is a lot of work, for both the therapist and patient.

the key aspect of mental formations both healthy and unhealthy is habit, as impressions are revisited they become stronger.
what are you going to do about that?

that is the whole of the law, not aleister crowley.
habit comprehension and habit modulation.
get that and you master all real magic.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Registered: 05/30/21
Posts: 2,924
Re: What is your opinion of professional psychotherapy? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27357543 - 06/21/21 12:52 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
It seems very apparent you've already made up your mind. But you have a tiny bit of doubt. So the question arises ...why this doubt?




I don't get what you mean. My doubt has nothing to do with whether I think therapy is good for me. I expressed doubt about whether it is good in general or not, because I think there do exist some individuals that like it. I think it is a matter of personality. Those who are used to resolving their problems through personal reflection on their own time are not likely to benefit by paying a professional interrogator who tells them how to think of their problems. I like to pose questions to myself. Why the heck should I spend money on someone who tells me how to reflect? All that would do is limit my own skills in my self-evaluation.

In truth I don't entirely understand why some people benefit from it so much so I guess I would be interested to hear people's reasons. But that doesn't mean I want it. It means I'm curious about people who have an entirely different attitude from my own. I do think this question can stimulate discussion because maybe the people who disagree can help me understand what they get out of it. I guess I'm theoretically open to someone showing how I'm entirely wrong and maybe changing my mind, it wouldn't be a fair discussion otherwise, but I'd find it exceedingly unlikely.

Edited by CreonAntigone (06/21/21 12:55 PM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What is your opinion of professional psychotherapy? [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #27357623 - 06/21/21 01:53 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

it is less about being told how to think or what to alter,
and more about talking out the difficult experience/memory so that the safe ambience of the therapy session gells in with the memory traces that were all too painful, creating a net balanced set of associations which frees you up.

it unblocks you, you still have the hard memory, but it is no longer a mental zone that you fear to examine, and you can start doing things that you avoided due to trauma associations.

simply speaking, after letting a therapist into your trauma, your trauma becomes less of a dead end area in your mental life.

some people can revitalize themselves and not be diminished by trauma areas in their lives, while talking with a therapist or even working with a good group can make it easier to carry on.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: What is your opinion of professional psychotherapy? [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #27359012 - 06/22/21 03:30 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

CreonAntigone said:
Quote:

laughingdog said:
It seems very apparent you've already made up your mind. But you have a tiny bit of doubt. So the question arises ...why this doubt?




I don't get what you mean. My doubt has nothing to do with whether I think therapy is good for me. I expressed doubt about whether it is good in general or not, because I think there do exist some individuals that like it. I think it is a matter of personality. Those who are used to resolving their problems through personal reflection on their own time are not likely to benefit by paying a professional interrogator who tells them how to think of their problems. I like to pose questions to myself. Why the heck should I spend money on someone who tells me how to reflect? All that would do is limit my own skills in my self-evaluation.

In truth I don't entirely understand why some people benefit from it so much so I guess I would be interested to hear people's reasons. But that doesn't mean I want it. It means I'm curious about people who have an entirely different attitude from my own. I do think this question can stimulate discussion because maybe the people who disagree can help me understand what they get out of it. I guess I'm theoretically open to someone showing how I'm entirely wrong and maybe changing my mind, it wouldn't be a fair discussion otherwise, but I'd find it exceedingly unlikely.




Partly you are concerned about the cost
This seemingly shows you think you are the standard human being
and that most folks are similar
Think out of the box
Some rich folks don't care about benefit
they just like to say what ever they want to someone who has to listen

Others are court ordered to see shrinks

That you have an interest, that doesn't go away, yet deny having any issues, seems a little, shall we say, funny?

You don't know that therapists tell folks what to think because: (1) you have never been to one, and (2) many are very different.

You also have an attitude, which I will not label, but which can be seen easily, because
(1) you expect others on a random forum to tell you details of their lives.
(2) you can't be bothered to look up any of the many books on the subject.
(3) you can't be bothered to figure out how to research the subject properly, and then make the effort to do it
(4) and apparently if you did know anyone, who did some therapy, they didn't choose to share any interesting details with you.

So no issue, but an attitude of which you are unaware, but which can be seen without even meeting you, and of course because you need no help, no one can help you. And it would cost too much. But you are open, its just those benefited folks, keeping it all secret that are so frustrating. Hmmm....very interesting....

Don't get me wrong there maybe many poor therapists, but how to find the right one, and a good one, is a whole different subject. And why that is true, in many different professions is again a whole different subject.

I am reminded of the Zen student who said to the Zen Master (attempting a great attack):
"How do I know you are a real Master?"
and the Zen master said (simply and calmly)
"How do I know you are a real Zen student?"

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Invisiblesudly
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Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,241
Re: What is your opinion of professional psychotherapy? [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #27361046 - 06/24/21 02:38 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I think that psychotherapy is an outlet for the patient.

An opportunity for clear communication. They are there for you to unravel on, and to provide the help that you request.

If you don't have a request of them, how can you expect them to help? At least, in regards to what you want from them.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: What is your opinion of professional psychotherapy? [Re: CreonAntigone] * 1
    #27369073 - 06/30/21 02:11 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I'm currently training as a counsellor, so maybe I can offer some of the perspective of a nascent practitioner.

Consider the ethical standards which the profession is converging on:

a) Beneficence- Being proactive in promoting the best interests of clients.
b) Fidelity- Honouring commitments to clients and maintaining integrity in counselling relationships.
c) Nonmaleficence- Refraining from actions that risk harm and not willfully harming clients.
d) Autonomy- Respecting the rights of clients to agency and self-determination.
e) Justice - Respecting the dignity of all persons and honouring their right to just treatment.
f) Societal Interest- Upholding responsibility to act in the best interests of society.

https://www.ccpa-accp.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/CCPA-2020-Code-of-Ethics-E-Book-EN.pdf

Can you see how having a helper to call on who holds to these may be beneficial?

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