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 Shroomhunts
Hunter Gatherer
 
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 Wild Panaeolus discussion thread  5
#27352047 - 06/17/21 06:35 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Wanted to create a place for shroomery members all over the world to discuss wild pans. Lawn pans are the most common mushroom in the world and exceptionally wide spread, growing everywhere except the artic and deserts. Hopefully some of you will use this thread to post finds and ID requests are also welcome. Perhaps we can advanced the current understanding of this incredible, diverse genus containing many species of psilocybin containing mushrooms!
 
Some of the thousands panaeolus cinctulus I observed today
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You never kno
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MpSeph
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 Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: Shroomhunts]
#27352053 - 06/17/21 06:37 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Good Idea, I'll Contribute As Much As Possible 
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Tips For A Beginner Mushroom Hunter
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27146775
One Who Hunts Mushrooms Is A Mushroom Hunter. One Who Eats Them Without Knowing What They Are, Is A Dumb Mushroom Hunter. - Seph
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Shroomhunts
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Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: MpSeph]
#27352077 - 06/17/21 06:49 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Yea, they are everywhere this time of year that transition from spring to summer is when they flush the hardest here. Lawn pans are often overlooked by hunters due to their lack of blue bruising and low psilocybin content, but they are certainly the most accessible active species due to their massive range.
We have much to learn about this genus, not to long ago a shroomery member found a new species growing in Africa, if we can get people excited about them in more remote parts of the planet its only a matter of time till we identify more!!
Edited by Shroomhunts (06/17/21 06:52 PM)
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MpSeph
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Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: Shroomhunts]
#27352097 - 06/17/21 07:01 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, Totally Agree, I Myself Have Walked Past Thousands Of What I Believe To Be Pan. Cinctulus Because I Can't Prove If They Are Active Or Not, Since I Don't Have Access To A Microscope & I Don't Actually Enjoy Psilocybin/Psilocin Enough To Want To Test Them.
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Tips For A Beginner Mushroom Hunter
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27146775
One Who Hunts Mushrooms Is A Mushroom Hunter. One Who Eats Them Without Knowing What They Are, Is A Dumb Mushroom Hunter. - Seph
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Anglerfish
hearing things
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Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: Shroomhunts]
#27352120 - 06/17/21 07:10 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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A hell of an idea for a thread. The genus has been largely neglected by most mycologists.
I'm not sure for what reason there is a lack of interest in it.
Quote:
Shroomhunts said:
Some of the thousands panaeolus cinctulus I observed today
A healthy place to start the discussion is what P. cinctulus actually is, and
what other species that might be easily mistaken for it.
This discussion needs to go further than pictures and micro characters.
It would be good to get a number of finds sequenced and uploaded to GenBank.
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 ★★★★★
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Shroomhunts
Hunter Gatherer
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Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: MpSeph]
#27352128 - 06/17/21 07:18 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
MpSeph said:
Yeah, Totally Agree, I Myself Have Walked Past Thousands Of What I Believe To Be Pan. Cinctulus Because I Can't Prove If They Are Active Or Not, Since I Don't Have Access To A Microscope & I Don't Actually Enjoy Psilocybin/Psilocin Enough To Want To Test Them.
I'm sorry to hear that you don't enjoy psilocybin.. possibly try to improve your setting when consuming them! I will say that you can effectively get a spore print to determine if they may be an active species or not, active pans will typically have jet black spores. If you are impatient and want to ID them in the field you can look for overlapped caps or even take a photo of the gills with the flash on your camera to reveal the spore color.
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You never kno
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Shroomhunts
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Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: Anglerfish]
#27352129 - 06/17/21 07:23 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Anglerfish said:
A hell of an idea for a thread. The genus has been largely neglected by most mycologists.
I'm not sure for what reason there is a lack of interest in it.
Quote:
Shroomhunts said:
Some of the thousands panaeolus cinctulus I observed today
A healthy place to start the discussion is what P. cinctulus actually is, and
what other species that might be easily mistaken for it.
This discussion needs to go further than pictures and micro characters.
It would be good to get a number of finds sequenced and uploaded to GenBank.
I'm glad you say this, maybe I will put aside a small fund to do a survey of lawn pans, could get college students do the survey and have all the finds properly documented and sequenced.
One "species?" of interest here is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panaeolopsis as their is no consensus on them being a separate species or a mutation of other lawn pans. Personally I think its the former but there is no hard scientific evidence to prove this only what I have observed in the field.
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You never kno
Edited by Shroomhunts (06/17/21 07:24 PM)
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velho
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Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: Anglerfish] 1
#27352130 - 06/17/21 07:24 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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A great idea for a thread for sure! I love observing the lawn Panaeolus species and I've tried them several times with varied experiences. This genus definitely needs a closer look!
Here are photos of some black spored Panaeolus species from my yard. I think they all look a bit different macroscopically from each other.
1.  2. 3. 4.  
The first one already appeared this year and I got a nice collection. The rest of the photos are from previous years and hopefully they'll appear this year aswell so I can make a collection.
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Shroomhunts
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Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: velho] 1
#27352131 - 06/17/21 07:26 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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The macroscopic variation in these mushrooms is mindblowing and I think there are certainly more distinct species than what is known, we are just clumping them in groups for ease of identification but I doubt we have scratched the surface of what's really out there
These mushrooms have gone stepped on and overlooked for too long, it is rare I will go a day of my life from spring to fall without seeing a pan. Very frustrating because anyone who has tried to research them knows there is almost no publicly available information on pans aside from the few conversations buried in the pages of obscure mushroom forums. Very odd when you consider it is the most common and widespread genus on the planet and these mushrooms certainly play a key role in the ecosystems they inhabit as a source of food for omnivores and decomposers recycling nutrients back into the soil. Even the large group of inactive pans have been found to contain chemicals like serotonin and could have potential value in medicine and agriculture. They actually taste good too which is why I'm often confused most mushroom hunters and foragers don't even bat an eye when they walk past and step on them.
Edited by Shroomhunts (06/17/21 07:43 PM)
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MentalPariah
Pariah of my mind
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Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: Anglerfish]
#27352183 - 06/17/21 08:03 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Anglerfish said:
A hell of an idea for a thread. The genus has been largely neglected by most mycologists.
I'm not sure for what reason there is a lack of interest in it.
I wonder if it's because alot of the species share VERY similar macroscopic features and it's not so much a lack of interest in seperating species but they're just easily overlooked. 
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Whoever appeals to the law against his
Fellow man is either a fool or a coward
Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both
For a wounded man shall say to his assailant
If I live I will kill you, if I die you are forgiven
Such is the rule of honor
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Shroomhunts
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Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: MentalPariah]
#27352236 - 06/17/21 08:41 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Certainly would be a logistical nightmare to separate them all. Even as a skilled forager it is sometimes difficult to differentiate between them. That's why DNA sequencing would be essential. That being said there are certainly diffences in the appearance of them by species its just more subtle, like if you had a large patch of many different types of psilocybes only a skilled hunter would be able to sort each and every mushroom into the correct pile many woodlovers look almost identical, with their subtle features giving away the ID
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You never kno
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MpSeph
Cow Field Creature
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Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: Shroomhunts]
#27352247 - 06/17/21 08:49 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I've Tripped Over 40 Times & Everytime I Get The Same Side Effects To A Certain Degree. I Get Paranoid, Rapid Heartbeat, Sweats & Chills, Strange/Unusual Thoughts, & I Don't Enjoy The "Hazy" Feeling After You Come Down. I Just Don't Like The Overall Feeling. I Wish I Did, But Sadly I Guess They Just Aren't For Me.
I Love Finding & Photographing Them Though
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Tips For A Beginner Mushroom Hunter
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27146775
One Who Hunts Mushrooms Is A Mushroom Hunter. One Who Eats Them Without Knowing What They Are, Is A Dumb Mushroom Hunter. - Seph
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Moria841
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Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: Shroomhunts] 1
#27352263 - 06/17/21 09:05 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Alan says that the lawn panaeolus are very understudied and probably represent many more species than are currently described, like what Mental said. Bruising isn't all that uncommon in my experience. The ones I see here have this weird grey smokey look on their caps and usually have a light brown/tan spot right in the middle, almost like how P. cyanescens usually has that yellow-tan tone in the center of the cap, which is an identifying feature when comparing them to P. antillarum. I'll take some photos in-situ when they pop up again, probably Saturday after the rain. Here's some bluing specimens for now:
 
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mycot
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Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: MentalPariah]
#27352306 - 06/17/21 09:40 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
MentalPariah said:
I wonder if it's because alot of the species share VERY similar macroscopic features and it's not so much a lack of interest in seperating species but they're just easily overlooked.
I think that goes for shrooms in general. A Mr Young, a prominent Australian mycologist seemed to believe that P.subbalteatus was non-existent in Australia as he was unable to locate any specimens despite there being early records for the species here. A few Australians myself included have found plenty.
Distinguishing between the different species is difficult enough especially with a number of species name changes.
There is a sub-group of active Panaeolus which can be referred to as the Copelandia which in my opinion should be a separate genus as they are closely related.(no surprise)
The thing is there must be a dozen species of this later genus here(I've found plenty of these species) and people would overlook the differences and think they are all cyanescens(aka blue meanies)
Some eye-candy. There seems to be three species of Copelandia here, the middle one a weathered cyanescens, the other two species undescribed.
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Shroomhunts
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Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: mycot]
#27352325 - 06/17/21 10:02 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Mpseph I do understand that and have had similar experiences before, the trip is different for everyone, it just saddens me a esteemed hunter like yourself wouldn't take more pleasure in the fruits of your labor.
Mycot Very cool mushrooms, would love to see some spore pics if you got a scope. I will get some of the cincts I got here when I get back to my laboratory.
It is likely the diversity of pan species is far greater the closer you get to the equator.
Moria The bluing you mention is seldom observed from the fruits I find and if I do see it its on the mycelium and not the caps or stems
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You never kno
Edited by Shroomhunts (06/17/21 10:06 PM)
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mycot
Crazy as fuck
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Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: mycot]
#27352338 - 06/17/21 10:15 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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A couple more pics of undescribed Copelandia. 
 
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Shroomhunts
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Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: mycot]
#27352368 - 06/17/21 10:31 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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What specific features make you feel they are undescribed?
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MpSeph
Cow Field Creature
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Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: Shroomhunts]
#27352376 - 06/17/21 10:39 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomhunts said:
Mpseph I do understand that and have had similar experiences before, the trip is different for everyone, it just saddens me a esteemed hunter like yourself wouldn't take more pleasure in the fruits of your labor.
Ikr Lol, I've Had A Couple "Good" Trips Where I Still Got The Side Effects But It Wasn't As Bad. It's Probably Got Something To Do With My Mindset Going Into It. I Don't Like To Lose Control. & With Mushrooms They Take Control. So I've Got To Become More Comfortable With Them Taking Over, Instead Of Getting Into It & Saying "Damn, Did I Really Wanna Trip Today?" That's What Starts It All Lol
--------------------
Tips For A Beginner Mushroom Hunter
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27146775
One Who Hunts Mushrooms Is A Mushroom Hunter. One Who Eats Them Without Knowing What They Are, Is A Dumb Mushroom Hunter. - Seph
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Moria841
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Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: Shroomhunts]
#27352407 - 06/17/21 11:09 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, you're right, the bluing doesn't occur anywhere other than the base of the stem most of the time, though getting them to bruise blue at that stem base is actually pretty easy in my experience, maybe about one in five mushrooms would do that while i've heard people say only one in a hundred bruise at all
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 LeafRaker
nomad
Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 713
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Re: Wild Panaeolus discussion thread [Re: Moria841]
#27352424 - 06/17/21 11:24 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Great idea for a thread! I'm super excited to contribute.
I remember a few months ago we had a Bioinformatics student looking for ideas on a project using mycology. I thought of either looking at Armillaria because they are big, old monsters OR looking at Panaeolus because they're everywhere and it would really interesting to see how they are related.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27187703#27187703
When I become a billionaire I promise to fund a project to map out a Paneolus family tree!
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Knowledge is finite, ignorance is infinite.
I aim to be the devil in the details:
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