|
 Kryptos
Stranger
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,644
Last seen: 5 hours, 39 minutes
|
 Re: Police appreciation thread  [Re: koods]
#27346290 - 06/13/21 01:45 AM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I don't think Tennessee has the same exception that North Carolina has.
I do think it's funny that NC specifically names landlords as immune to being shot in self defence, but that's because a landlord has no duty to inform you they're coming over for a visit.
|
The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,811
Loc: 'Merica 
Last seen: 15 hours, 45 minutes
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'd say the latter, but you guys tell me. How would it become a "settled" matter?
I think (hope) we can all agree that Koods saying "I make believe it's a settled matter because I say so" isn't sufficient.
Maybe it'll never be settled. But I think the grand jury decision is the closest thing we have. Unless you have something better.
Yeah let’s argue the definition of the word “settled” for the next ten pages.
--------------------
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 7 months, 6 days
|
|
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Yeah let’s argue the definition of the word “settled” for the next ten pages.
I only said that a grand jury ruling by people who saw/heard all the evidence carries more weight than that of a biased poster on a mushroom board.
I didn't say it was settled.
--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
koods
Ribbit
Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,910
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 5 hours, 49 minutes
|
|
That’s not how grand juries work when a cop is the subject.
--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
|
 natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat
Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,940
Loc: ation
|
|
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
But is it not settled because our judicial system goes out of its way to protect cops? Or is it because there’s no clear violation from the evidence? Gotta make sure you spell that out for these folk or they’ll think you support fascism or something.
Pretty sure they say he supports fascism because he spent pages denying the cop did anything wrong.
Now he comes in to gloat about being right because of an unbalanced system that favors police a year plus later
--------------------
|
The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,811
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 15 hours, 45 minutes
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Yeah let’s argue the definition of the word “settled” for the next ten pages.
I only said that a grand jury ruling by people who saw/heard all the evidence carries more weight than that of a biased poster on a mushroom board.
I didn't say it was settled.
Because grand juries are so objective.
--------------------
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,473
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 12 hours, 40 seconds
|
|
As the murder of Breonna Taylor revealed, Grand Juries are just a tool of the courts - not a guarantor of justice.
Justice Denied: An Overview of the Grand Jury Proceedings in the Breonna Taylor Case
Quote:
Our review reveals that the Kentucky Attorney General’s Office presented a biased view of the case that favored law enforcement. Contrary to AG Cameron’s statements during the September 23, 2020, press conference, he did not present charges of homicide or explain the justification of self-defense. Instead of providing the grand jury with all relevant evidence, the Kentucky Attorney General’s Office made its own determination as to how the case should be resolved and tailored its presentation to guarantee that outcome.
--------------------
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,473
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 12 hours, 40 seconds
|
|
You can’t use the instruments of government to abolish oppression. Grand Juries are used to defend violent cops, and they are also used to harass political activists. FW, squash the notion that Grand Juries are unbiased arbitrators of justice.
Surviving a Grand Jury: Three Narratives from Grand Jury Resisters
Quote:
Grand juries serve the state as a sort of auxiliary legal proceeding to force people to inform on each other. A grand jury isn’t a criminal trial; there’s no judge present. It takes place entirely in secret. As a witness, you can’t even obtain transcripts of your testimony.
Only the prosecutor and the jurists are allowed in the room with the witness. The jurists are chosen according to the prosecutor’s agenda and not screened for bias. The grand jury doesn’t have to inform you about the details of what they are investigating; you have no way to know what information might be incriminating for you or another person.
Grand juries suspend Fifth Amendment rights. They can subpoena you and give you “immunity” in order to force you to testify; if you refuse, they can jail you for up to eighteen months. This immunity does not protect you from prosecution; it only stipulates that the information you personally provide cannot be used against you, although the same information provided by someone else can be.
All this explains why people who do not want to be complicit in enabling the state to persecute communities refuse to give any information to a grand jury whatsoever. You never know what detail might be used against someone else. Even if no one is guilty of any crime, providing information to a grand jury can result in ongoing legal harassment that can ripple out and affect many people.
Grand juries serve to gather information on dissidents far beyond what police and prosecutors could gather on their own; they have been used to isolate, divide, and destroy social movements since the 1960s. Grand juries are currently being used to target anarchists, anti-fascists, and indigenous water protectors who struggled at Standing Rock.
If you’re subpoenaed by a grand jury and you decide to resist, you have two options: show up in court and refuse to testify, then serve time in prison for contempt, or go on the run before your first court date.
--------------------
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 7 months, 6 days
|
|
I didn't say the grand jury was fair, I said they showed the case wasn't settled.
Yes, I did say I felt their decision carried more weight in showing that this is not a "settled" case than the opinion of someone on a mushroom board, especially considering there are counter opinions on the mushroom board as well.
I'm certainly open to what other people feel would make this a settled case, but I don't accept "because koods said so!"
--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Kryptos
Stranger
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,644
Last seen: 5 hours, 39 minutes
|
|
Seems to me that the whole question of whether this is a settled case speaks more than how the case is settled.
In the developed world, police kill three people per year, not per day.
|
koods
Ribbit
Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,910
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 5 hours, 49 minutes
|
Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Kryptos] 1
#27347316 - 06/13/21 10:04 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
The worst part is cops are totally butthurt about all this bad press and they’re just gonna take it out on citizens
--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
|
The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,811
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 15 hours, 45 minutes
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I didn't say the grand jury was fair, I said they showed the case wasn't settled.
Yes, I did say I felt their decision carried more weight in showing that this is not a "settled" case than the opinion of someone on a mushroom board, especially considering there are counter opinions on the mushroom board as well.
I'm certainly open to what other people feel would make this a settled case, but I don't accept "because koods said so!"
I’d say the video evidence of a cop shoving an old man to the ground and cracking his skull on the pavement when there was no threat of danger whatsoever to the officer settles it, but if you’re hoping for the police state to convict the police as a means of settling this then I’m not sure how we’re supposed to convince you otherwise.
You think it’s a coincidence that juries just now started convicting cops for killing people in the wake of global BLM protests? This shit is all political. There’s no rubric, no objective baseline, for all we know someone on the grand jury posts on a mushroom board.
--------------------
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 7 months, 6 days
|
Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#27347413 - 06/14/21 12:22 AM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
I’d say the video evidence of a cop shoving an old man to the ground and cracking his skull on the pavement when there was no threat of danger whatsoever to the officer settles it, but if you’re hoping for the police state to convict the police as a means of settling this then I’m not sure how we’re supposed to convince you otherwise.
It looks to me they didn't intend to crack his skull, they simply pushed him away as he approached them after being told to leave and waved his phone around them.
It looked like an accident to me. He fell because he was old. Very unfortunate.
Edit: I realize the "eggshell skull doctrine" doesn't give the cops an out because the guy was old. The question is whether cops had a right to push someone in the first place who wasn't obeying curfew orders?
That's why I said we should wait and see what courts determine to see what the law says about this.
Is it possible the laws favor police? Yes, of course. Is it possible the grand jury wasn't fair? Yes, of course. Is this a settled issue? What's the best way to determine if it's settled if we disagree?
Again, the grand jury decision proves it's not settled, it doesn't prove the cops innocent.
Here's where you probably question why I'm arguing semantics. Because that was the argument in the first place. Koods declared it was settled.
--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (06/14/21 12:40 AM)
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,473
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 12 hours, 40 seconds
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The question is whether cops had a right to push someone in the first place who wasn't obeying curfew orders?
No, cops don't have the right to physically assault people for disobeying orders. If the old man was breaking the law, then the correct response would have been to arrest him, charge him with a crime, and give him a trial - not assault him and walk away.
There is never justification for punitive violence from the police.
--------------------
|
natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat
Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,940
Loc: ation
|
|
A similar point was made last year, many pages back. No use
--------------------
|
Enlil 
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Kryptos]
#27347686 - 06/14/21 08:43 AM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kryptos said:
Pretty sure that in NC, SYG/Castle Doctrine cannot be used as a legal defense if you shoot a bail bondsman, a cop, or a landlord. Whether they identify themselves or not does not seem to matter.
Castle doctrine and SYG just create presumptions. The lack of either isn't an equivalent to a lack of the right to defend oneself.
--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.
Ask an Attorney
Fuck the Amish
|
bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
I’d say the video evidence of a cop shoving an old man to the ground and cracking his skull on the pavement when there was no threat of danger whatsoever to the officer settles it, but if you’re hoping for the police state to convict the police as a means of settling this then I’m not sure how we’re supposed to convince you otherwise.
It looks to me they didn't intend to crack his skull, they simply pushed him away as he approached them after being told to leave and waved his phone around them.
It looked like an accident to me. He fell because he was old. Very unfortunate.
Edit: I realize the "eggshell skull doctrine" doesn't give the cops an out because the guy was old. The question is whether cops had a right to push someone in the first place who wasn't obeying curfew orders?
That's why I said we should wait and see what courts determine to see what the law says about this.
Is it possible the laws favor police? Yes, of course. Is it possible the grand jury wasn't fair? Yes, of course. Is this a settled issue? What's the best way to determine if it's settled if we disagree?
Again, the grand jury decision proves it's not settled, it doesn't prove the cops innocent.
Here's where you probably question why I'm arguing semantics. Because that was the argument in the first place. Koods declared it was settled.
Because it is settled to anyone that wouldn't push an old man. If you're a cop or cop apologist I could see how you would want to use the grand jury result as justification that it was acceptable. All in all your recent posts sure do paint a picture of your ethics though.
|
The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,811
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 15 hours, 45 minutes
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
I’d say the video evidence of a cop shoving an old man to the ground and cracking his skull on the pavement when there was no threat of danger whatsoever to the officer settles it, but if you’re hoping for the police state to convict the police as a means of settling this then I’m not sure how we’re supposed to convince you otherwise.
It looks to me they didn't intend to crack his skull, they simply pushed him away as he approached them after being told to leave and waved his phone around them.
It looked like an accident to me. He fell because he was old. Very unfortunate.
Edit: I realize the "eggshell skull doctrine" doesn't give the cops an out because the guy was old. The question is whether cops had a right to push someone in the first place who wasn't obeying curfew orders?
That's why I said we should wait and see what courts determine to see what the law says about this.
Is it possible the laws favor police? Yes, of course. Is it possible the grand jury wasn't fair? Yes, of course. Is this a settled issue? What's the best way to determine if it's settled if we disagree?
Again, the grand jury decision proves it's not settled, it doesn't prove the cops innocent.
Here's where you probably question why I'm arguing semantics. Because that was the argument in the first place. Koods declared it was settled.
Pushing him away is what settles it imo, whether the guy fell and cracked his head is irrelevant to the cop’s culpability, which is what we should be discussing: culpability. Innocence or guilt isn’t determined by some objective standard.
--------------------
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 7 months, 6 days
|
|
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The question is whether cops had a right to push someone in the first place who wasn't obeying curfew orders?
No, cops don't have the right to physically assault people for disobeying orders.
Is that what happened?
Under New York penal law, the definition of assault is intentionally striking another person, and causing injury to that person.
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
If the old man was breaking the law, then the correct response would have been to arrest him, charge him with a crime, and give him a trial - not assault him and walk away.
And what if he accidentally fell and cracked his skull while they were trying to arrest him? Would that have been ok?
Again, I'm not condoning what happened, I'm saying it's clearly not a settled issue.
--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 7 months, 6 days
|
Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: bodhisatta]
#27348394 - 06/14/21 08:04 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
If you're a cop or cop apologist I could see how you would want to use the grand jury result as justification that it was acceptable.
Did I say it was acceptable anywhere? I said it wasn't a settled issue.
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
All in all your recent posts sure do paint a picture of your ethics though.
My ethics are to be truthful, not to always side with my side (see my signature).
Like when I said Trump didn't collude with Russia on the election, it's not because I supported Trump (or Putin), it's because there was no evidence of collusion, and the Mueller report confirmed it.
Is that a bad thing in your mind?
--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (06/14/21 08:35 PM)
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Buy Bali Kratom Powder 
Red Vein Kratom 
North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies 
Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order 
Buy Kratom Extract
Edit 
Reply 
1 2 all )
Cherk
Evolving
dee_N_ae
Learyfan
quiver
Rose
Achillita