Home | Community | Message Board


Reliable Spores
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Original Sensible Seeds High THC Strains   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post. Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]
InvisibleFerdinando
Male

Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 2,730
Re: Pro vaccine mandate + Pro choice? [Re: sudly]
    #27339697 - 06/08/21 07:03 AM (4 days, 15 hours ago)

meditation and yoga is good for the future in our hands
I always make prayers from it
but it might make you better
more ok


--------------------
maybe just meaning as much to it as possible
and anti-meaning as little to it as possible


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleFerdinando
Male

Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 2,730
Re: Pro vaccine mandate + Pro choice? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27339698 - 06/08/21 07:04 AM (4 days, 15 hours ago)

things will appear in your mind like go mesc go poitikc and that is just good


--------------------
maybe just meaning as much to it as possible
and anti-meaning as little to it as possible


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 29,081
Re: Pro vaccine mandate + Pro choice? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27339828 - 06/08/21 09:32 AM (4 days, 13 hours ago)

please be sensitive to the topic, ferdinando, each topic is not the same, does not require your sales pitch for enlightenment.


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblechopstick
nobody
Male


Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 2,615
Loc: Chin's Wok
Re: Pro vaccine mandate + Pro choice? [Re: sudly]
    #27340187 - 06/08/21 02:21 PM (4 days, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

sudly said:


I don't think vaccines should be mandated, just that there be some sort of vaccine passport or allowance. So that if you choose not to be vaccinate, others can choose not to be around you.





So we should give the government more power over us because of a man-made virus that was leaked from a lab, and which has a 99.98% survival rate?

And essentially be forced to take a vaccine (or else you can't do much in society) which has a host of known side-effects, including heart inflammation, random panic attacks, and all sorts of weird shit when it might not really be necessary? Especially if the person has already had covid (and thus has some natural immunity) or if they are in the appropriate age group that is extremely unlikely to progress beyond mild symptoms even if they do catch covid?

You want to give more power to an oppressive entity which already abuses the power it does have so you can feel safer?

Sounds logical.

Actually no, it's not logical. It's fear.

Your opinion is driven by fear.

The problem is you want to abdicate the concept of personal responsibility in favor of attempting to force control mechanisms on the population. If someone catches covid, they should be responsible enough to self-isolate until it has cleared and they are no longer at risk of infecting others. And given that the vaccine has potentially significant side-effects, people should have the choice to decide for themselves if the cure is worse than the disease (in their particular case, for some it may be the opposite) without being penalized by society to the point they aren't even allowed to use public infrastructure for their choice.

When it comes to the vaccine, everyone's situation is different. For many it may not be necessary. For others who are at serious risk of dying from Covid due to their age or co-morbidities, it may be worth it. This choice should not be interfered with by introducing artificial societal pressure & penalties, rather it should be recognized that everyone's situation is different and there are a lot of reasons that somebody might not want to get the vaccine rather than pretending it is some holy cure-all with no flaws and you're putting society at risk when you don't get it, when in reality, you're really not.

I already had Covid. I trust my body's natural immunity. And given that I am in the age group that is at risk of heart inflammation from receiving the vaccine (a serious condition that requires hospitalization), I don't feel it is necessary to risk such a serious condition to prevent a disease I've already had and which, quite frankly, the symptoms weren't that bad beyond a couple of days.

Of course I am also smart enough to realize that there are many whom are at risk of experiencing more intense symptoms from covid and that for them, the vaccine's positives outweigh any potential negatives. And I don't judge them for it.

Judgement is unnecessary in either case. Unfortunately, we resort to it far too often.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblechopstick
nobody
Male


Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 2,615
Loc: Chin's Wok
Re: Pro vaccine mandate + Pro choice? [Re: chopstick]
    #27340224 - 06/08/21 02:49 PM (4 days, 7 hours ago)

Oh, and another point.

Why would someone who has been vaccinated care if they are in close physical contact with someone who is not vaccinated when they are immune because of said fact that they have received the vaccine?

Nevermind the fact that with overall active cases dropping dramatically all over the country that your chances of running into someone with an active covid infection in public is sub-0.1%. Even if they are unvaxxed, their chances of even having covid (let alone the even slimmer chance they might transmit it to you), is 1 in multiple thousands.

You're already immune, so why restrict other people's freedoms over your own irrational fear?


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 6,372
Re: Pro vaccine mandate + Pro choice? [Re: chopstick]
    #27340286 - 06/08/21 03:35 PM (4 days, 7 hours ago)

The death rate is about 3%, and I do fear your opinion on this, rather blasé.

If the cure is worse than the disease, as if the vaccine has killed 3.5 million people. Covid is 30 times more deadly than a flu.

The vaccine gives you resistance, not immunity.

Would you want to stand in a room with a man or a cat that would still like to punch or claw at you?

It would preferable over a man with a gun or a tiger, but I still wouldn't want to be in the room in either case.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/11/05
Posts: 7,927
Re: Pro vaccine mandate + Pro choice? [Re: sudly]
    #27340425 - 06/08/21 05:44 PM (4 days, 5 hours ago)

Last I checked the death rate to known cases in the US was 1.76% (2.13% for the world) The most conservative estimate (+95% has been cited) I can find for undiagnosed cases is 80%. So the most liberal chance of dying in the US is .35%. 80% of those cases are in the +70 age group which brings the death rate in the -70 age group to .07%.

That's more deadly than the flu in the same age group but still less than 1 in 1400 under 70 who will die from it. Chances are better with the vaccine, but the virus will not remain as deadly as it mutates. In addition to those who would get the novel virus and opted to get the vaccine one should also consider those who will not get the novel virus and opt to get the vaccine. IOW, the number of lives saved will actually be smaller than 1 in 1400 in the -70 age group. It's a complicated issue but the number saved could be vastly smaller than simple math dictates. Still and to be fair, this doesn't suggest the vaccine would have an overall negative effect if administered to everyone. The point is, this isn't chickenpox or plague and people should be free to take their chances when dealing with various unknowns and not be discriminated against for it.

It's not sound reasoning to me to vaccinate the world (with vaccines that have no long term studies and have been shown in the short term to have more side effects than the average vaccine that has gone through long term trials) and establish a whole new ID system which has to be continuously updated with boosters for variants and discriminates against those who don't opt in. If someone is at risk and wants to take their chances with the vaccine I support that, being aware they have no legal recourse for any side effects. The reasonable path is to let people make their own choices and allow humanity to establish natural immunity which will surely happen vaccine or not.

And as it stands, the "conspiracy theory" that covid19 escaped from a lab is looking more realistic. Regardless, and just like fission power plants, shit happens, we should take another look at gain of function research and reevaluate whether it's worth it, whether there might be additional protocols that would make it safer, whether we're close enough to the singularity that we can just be patient and wait for the computing power to do that research virtually.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


“I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather did. Not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car."


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 6,372
Re: Pro vaccine mandate + Pro choice? [Re: Rahz]
    #27341014 - 06/09/21 03:31 AM (3 days, 19 hours ago)

Death wise, it's true that people aged 70+ are at most risk, and globally the average is around 2%.

Do you think that death is the only negative side effect of corona? Even young people can and do get long term health impacts.

They may not die but can be exhausted or short of breath for months.

And herd immunity in the US would require around 60% + of the population to become infected which at current rates would be over 6 million deaths. And to add to that, natural or exposure immunisation doesn't appear to be lifelong.

Quote:

“Some studies say six months. Some studies say eight months. Some say a year. So if you look at December, and you fast forward six months, that’s when we may start seeing waning natural immunity,” Dr. David Hicks, deputy health officer with the Jefferson County Department of Health said.




Mutations make it more virulent, not sure if these are more dangerous yet but what makes you think a mutation makes it not remain as deadly?! Do you think mutations make this disease less deadly?

Say a kid who won't die gets sick with corona, and exposes their grandparents, who die.

Then what.. oh well?

To even enter an aged care facility in Aus, you already need to prove you have had the flu shot.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/11/05
Posts: 7,927
Re: Pro vaccine mandate + Pro choice? [Re: sudly] * 1
    #27342176 - 06/09/21 10:30 PM (3 days, 14 minutes ago)

It would be interesting to know the percentage of people who experience lasting side effects. I know flu can cause the same side effects. But if it's considered that a substantial number of cases go unreported we are reaching herd immunity. A vaccine will help reach that point faster but it's going to happen regardless.

I'm not knowledgeable on the subject but from what I've read, natural immunity involves more memory functions, memory B cells for example, and can't be accurately measured by antibodies alone. It's possible there will be some immunity for life.

Same as mutations resulting in higher transmission rates will promote higher replication rates, mutations resulting in less lethality will promote higher replication rates.

So over time there will be fewer kids getting the nasty to bring home to gramps. The number of people we're saving -vs- the number of people who get vaccinated may not be as substantial as the simple math suggests.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


“I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather did. Not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car."


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 6,372
Re: Pro vaccine mandate + Pro choice? [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #27343677 - 06/10/21 11:38 PM (1 day, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

Tens of millions of Americans have been infected with and survived COVID-19. Thankfully, many survivors get back to normal health within two weeks of getting sick, but for some COVID-19 survivors – including my patient – symptoms can persist for months.

These survivors are sometimes dubbed long-haulers, and the disease process is termed “long COVID” or post-acute COVID-19 syndrome. A long-hauler is anyone who has continued symptoms after an initial bout of COVID-19.

Numerous studies over the past few months have shown that about 1 in 3 people with COVID-19 will have symptoms that last longer than the typical two weeks. These symptoms affect not only people who were very sick and hospitalized with COVID-19, but also those with milder cases.




Quote:

In a study published in July 2020, Italian researchers followed 147 patients who had been hospitalized for COVID-19 and found that 87% still had symptoms 60 days after they were discharged from the hospital. A more recent study, published in January, found that 76% of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Wuhan, China, were still experiencing symptoms six months after first getting sick.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/how-many-people-get-long-covid-and-who-is-most-at-risk-154331




I'm not sure how long vaccine immunisation is supposed to last for, but again, natural immunisation only appears to last 6 to 12 months. So herd immunity via that path seems untenable.

Please provide one source of lifelong natural immunity to any degree.

Mutations that lead to more transmissability work because the viruses can enter the body more easily, to do with protein attachment stuff.

I'm not sure if replication rate is relevant or how it is at least.

Quote:

Are coronavirus variants more dangerous?

Bollinger says that some of these mutations may enable the coronavirus to spread faster from person to person, and more infections can result in more people getting very sick or dying.  In addition, there is preliminary evidence from Britain that some variants could be associated with more severe disease.  “Therefore, it is very important for us to expand the number of genetic sequencing studies to keep track of these variants,” he says. 

Bollinger explains that it may be more advantageous for a respiratory virus to evolve so that it spreads more easily. On the other hand, mutations that make a virus more deadly may not give the virus an opportunity to spread efficiently. “If we get too sick or die quickly from a particular virus, the virus has less opportunity to infect others. However, more infections from a faster-spreading variant will lead to more deaths,” he notes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/a-new-strain-of-coronavirus-what-you-should-know%3famp=true




If a virus spreads more easily, more people will get the disease.. Mutations that increase transmissability don't decrease lethality or the number of people who get the disease :wtf:


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblechopstick
nobody
Male


Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 2,615
Loc: Chin's Wok
Re: Pro vaccine mandate + Pro choice? [Re: sudly]
    #27344383 - 06/11/21 02:12 PM (1 day, 8 hours ago)

The CDC is literally getting ready to hold emergency meetings over the vaccine causing disturbingly high rates of heart inflammation but you want to force it on people because Big Brother said it was a good idea.

The death rate for the virus only approaches 2%+ in the extremely older segment of the population. It is almost always non-fatal in younger patients.

There is absolutely no reason for anyone below the age of 21 to get vaccinated, period, unless maybe they happen to work in healthcare. Especially if they risk an extra hospital stay for myocarditis. Heart inflammation by the way, is very painful and it's not something you want to deal with as it basically puts you out of action and total bed rest is required until it subsides. And God helps you if it ends up being a serious case of it that lasts for months.

And it's not like heart inflammation is the only side-effect. It has caused full body convulsions in some patients. It messes with the menstrual cycle of women and causes extremely heavy bleeding, which is now known to be a very common side-effect in women. It can cause episodes of "panic and feelings of impending doom" in others. It causes random bouts of total facial paralysis. It exacerbates other pre-existing medical conditions. They had to pull one of the vaccines (I forget which brand) for causing potentially fatal blood clots. And now we're seeing that even other vaccine brands are also causing blood clots. And there have been hundreds more that have died suddenly after taking the vaccine. So you could also list death - even though it's rare, but it does happen - as a potential side-effect from the vaccine. Meanwhile, pharmaceutical companies are blatantly lying in an attempt to downplay the side-effects from the vaccine and putting people's lives at risk in the process in exchange for huge corporate profits.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that a rushed experimental for-profit vaccine might have serious side effects. And since Big Pharma is legally protected in every aspect to push the vaccine as much as they like, they have every financial and monetary reason to continue pushing the vaccine while pretending it's "safe" on to as many people as possible, regardless of the potential side-effects. The corruption going on here is staggering. Since when did we trust Big Pharma to have our best interests in mind?

And on top of ALL that - we now know that both HCQ & Ivermectin are effective treatments for Covid. So even if you *do* get sick, you can opt for treating it with these drugs instead of taking the vaccine. Side-effects from these chemicals are non-existent compared to the vaccine. And then you still get your natural immunity afterwards to boot.

All one has to do is spend 10 minutes browsing through random posts on r/covidvaccine to see that something is seriously wrong. The number of anecdotal reports is astonishing.

Instead the government would rather lie about the vaccine being "totally safe" while forking over massive profits to Big Pharma, who benefit greatly from vaccine mandates & passports. And I'm sure that they are getting kick-backs from lobbyist groups in return for everything they're doing to try and make the vaccine mandatory.

Ah, but rather than acknowledge these facts you'd rather force people to take the vaccine who probably don't need it and will be just fine with their own body's natural immune system, which with the exception of the elderly and immuno-compromised, is far superior to the vaccine.

All so *you* can feel safer, even if it might be detrimental for others.

You'd rather put other people at risk and dictate their lives to them on behalf of a corrupt government and corrupt pharmaceutical industry just so you can feel safe.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblechopstick
nobody
Male


Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 2,615
Loc: Chin's Wok
Re: Pro vaccine mandate + Pro choice? [Re: chopstick]
    #27344397 - 06/11/21 02:28 PM (1 day, 8 hours ago)

From a random post on r/covidvaccine:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CovidVaccine/comments/nwirjm/pfizer_side_effects/


"So on Monday I got my first Pfizer vaccine. Within two hours of having it my face went pretty much paralysed on one side. My mouth dropped and my eye won’t stay closed. It just pings open.

After visits to the hospital they’re saying it’s not Bell’s palsy and denying it’s nothing to do with the vaccine.

Has anyone else had similar symptoms?"


This is just one report of hundreds of random reddit posts.

Gee, I can't wait to get a vaccine shot that I don't need for a virus I've already had so that half my face can become paralyzed with no explanation as to why, then be lied to by unconcerned hospital staff telling me it "has nothing to do with the vaccine" while some corporate jackoff in a suit makes bank off my poor life decisions.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 29,081
Re: Pro vaccine mandate + Pro choice? [Re: chopstick] * 1
    #27344511 - 06/11/21 04:33 PM (1 day, 6 hours ago)

I got an update to windows 10 and my mouse stopped working.

shit happens.

get vaccinated.


--------------------


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/11/05
Posts: 7,927
Re: Pro vaccine mandate + Pro choice? [Re: sudly]
    #27344687 - 06/11/21 07:05 PM (1 day, 3 hours ago)

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-problem-of-long-haul-covid/

"One of the largest surveys so far, the King’s College London study, had four million users in the U.K. enter their ongoing symptoms on a smartphone app. The researchers reported that around 10 percent of patients had persistent symptoms for one month, with 1.5 to 2 percent having sustained symptoms at three months. As Hendrich suggests, this idea of “how many” is a moving target that will require more study and analysis."

Numbers seem all over the place, but that article is suggesting 1.5-2% at 3 months, apparently among confirmed cases. It seems to clear up for most.

Regarding immunity, T cells remember for life so subsequent infections shouldn't be as severe. And the articles I'm seeing say they don't know how long antibodies persist. The numbers you're seeing might be minimums because they're still present after that long?

Regarding lethality, as the article you cited suggests more lethal strains have less opportunity to spread.

At any rate, if we're not reaching herd immunity how do you explain the early reopening of Texas and Florida? Mask mandates were dropped and yet infection rates continued to drop as well despite the media's expectation that it was a grave mistake to do so.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


“I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather did. Not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car."


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 6,372
Re: Pro vaccine mandate + Pro choice? [Re: chopstick]
    #27344695 - 06/11/21 07:15 PM (1 day, 3 hours ago)

Do you know how many people die after eating cereal in the morning?

I've noticed a distinct lack of reference to your post, but keep feeding yourself in the morning sheep. Let those frosties fill you.

Young people still spread the disease to old people but old people aren't worth anything and long Covid is a hoax.

It's true.
https://www.reddit.com/r/thatHappened/


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 6,372
Re: Pro vaccine mandate + Pro choice? [Re: Rahz]
    #27344720 - 06/11/21 07:38 PM (1 day, 3 hours ago)

The article said mutations that lead to greater spread lead to more death, there is some evidence the British variety leads to more severe illness, and that if a virus kills its host too quickly it won't have as good an opportunity to spread, not that Covid is killing people too quickly to spread.

That also sounds wonderful actually, having symptoms after three months and struggling to breathe all the while! Now I'm a gambling man and I love those chances, I'll go make out with the next Covid positive person I come across to build my natural immunity and make sure I'll be safe in the future, I know I won't be one of those 2 in a 100.

It seems like antibodies are up in the air but t cells stack a chance of benefit. Still wouldn't want to rely on an incomplete immune response when the big daddy V is available.

You can explain the spikes in Covid cases in Texas and Florida rather easily because they re-opened too soon.

Quote:

Coronavirus: Florida and Texas reverse reopening as US cases pass 2.5m

"If I could go back and redo anything, it probably would have been to slow down the re-opening of bars," the governor told an ABC News affiliate KIVA.com on Friday.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53205720.amp




Covid rates dropped almost exponentially when trump was removed from the helm and couldn't scream at people to inject bleach, nuke hurricanes and get cancer from wind farms.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (06/12/21 03:19 AM)


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]

Shop: Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Original Sensible Seeds High THC Strains   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Pro Life Sticker
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
dawn of a new day 4,748 101 09/19/03 08:39 PM
by ChiefThunderbong
* Choices
( 1 2 all )
Veritas 1,642 25 12/10/06 05:28 PM
by redtailedhawk
* Choice spudamore 603 3 12/15/04 06:49 AM
by AreoZephin
* Choices-Inspirational
( 1 2 all )
gettinjiggywithit 1,840 28 05/24/05 09:31 PM
by Huehuecoyotl
* Lethal Injection and Hygiene Swami 861 14 03/26/05 05:05 AM
by Sclorch
* Pro's and Con's of energy workings johnnyfive 713 5 05/14/03 07:24 PM
by johnnyfive
* Relative? or Absolute?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
trendalM 5,808 61 01/29/18 09:35 PM
by BrendanFlock
* Clarifying The Emotional Choice Factor
( 1 2 all )
Veritas 2,604 28 09/22/05 09:34 PM
by crunchytoast

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
1,032 topic views. 0 members, 0 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic | ]
Search this thread:
Kratom Eye
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.03 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 14 queries.