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Stable Genius
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#27339155 - 06/07/21 04:30 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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That energy vault link was a good one cheers.
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


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Quote:
Crazy_Horse said: Nuclear airplanes would be awesome.

I don't think so Tim.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



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Energy storage is a problem but capitalism is The Problem
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Stable Genius
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: ballsalsa]
#27339201 - 06/07/21 04:53 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yes it is, has been, and will continue to be.
However the ironic thing is that once the numbers stack up for renewables then it will be a capital investment led change.
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koods
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Quote:
Stable Genius said: Nuclear Quote:
koods said: Nuclear is the only reasonable technology to produce electricity on a massive scale.
It's not a bad idea apart from the waste, but I agree it's an option. Twiggy has crunched the numbers and thinks he can do it. He's a good guy but he's also an astute business investor and wouldn't be putting his money where his mouth is to loose it.
I wasn't aware of any leakage problems but would also be very surprised if Lavo would be selling something that leaks Hydrogen. Check it out.
All materials are permeable to hydrogen. The hydrogen molecule is too small and can pass through other materials
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#27339290 - 06/07/21 05:55 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ok. From what I can read the the hydrogen is absorbed into a metal alloy.
This came out last week.
Quote:
If the trial program at Ularring is successful, then Macarthur and LAVO intend to examine opportunities to develop a fully localised micro-grid engineering solution that includes a solar PV array, a centralised hydrogen hydride containerised storage system and appropriately sized fuel cell to support the energy requirements for Macarthur’s planned high grade magnetite iron ore mine at Lake Giles, following successful delivery of the Company’s current Feasibility Study.
This could involve the integration of larger, containerised ‘HEOS’ hydrogen energy batteries with up to 13 MWh of capacity (currently being developed by LAVO), potentially delivering energy to Macarthur’s magnetite operations at a commercial scale.
https://lavo.com.au/lavo-and-macarthur-minerals-partner-to-trial-integration-of-hydrogen-power-at-lake-giles-iron-project/
Imo any battery that gets into the 1 megawatt size is significant. 13 meg is definitely utility scale.
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koods
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What the hell is hydrogen hydride? This sounds super scammy.
All these hydrogen technology advances are scams IMO., but definitely one talking about hydrogen hydride which is a substance that doesn’t exist or is some scammy way of referring to molecular hydrogen is just trying to fool naive investors
Reminds me of that dihydrogen monoxide joke. Nobody serious would call H2 hydrogen hydride. 🤦♂️
Edited by koods (06/08/21 09:20 AM)
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#27339960 - 06/08/21 09:25 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Maybe it's all somehow H- ions? I dunno how you stop that from reacting like crazy with the materials of your vessel, etc. And it seems like that would be smaller than H2 and thus even harder to contain at all. Maybe with a magnetic field or something like the plasma in fusion reactor? That seems inefficient.
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koods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#27340116 - 06/08/21 11:25 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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You can abosrb hydrogen into certain metals but as far as I know they are all extremely expensive and heavy metals like platinum and palladium
For electrolysis you can make a hydrogen electrode by saturating the surface of a platinum electrode with hydrogen.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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psi
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#27340124 - 06/08/21 11:34 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wish I got some palladium back when it was a few hundred bucks an ounce. It's about 10x the price it was in '08.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: psi]
#27340145 - 06/08/21 11:50 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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I wonder what’s gonna happen to all these ‘developing’ nations with huge swaths of precious metals when everyone realizes we absolutely need those to transition away from fossil fuels. I mean Elon musk basically admitted that’s why the US helped stage that coup in Bolivia, over their lithium deposits.
Are we gonna accept that those nations now have some leverage in the resource war, and acccept some slightly higher energy prices? Or will we just invade them and tell ourselves we had no choice in order to save the planet?
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koods
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Meh lithium isn’t that rare and it’s very recyclable.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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ballsalsa
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods] 1
#27340217 - 06/08/21 12:44 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Have you seen the new aluminum/graphene batteries? No rare minerals involved. 60X charging speed compared to lithium. Potential game changer for electric vehicles. You could charge to full in a few minutes at a "gas" station.
big, if true https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltaylor/2021/05/13/ev-range-breakthrough-as-new-aluminum-ion-battery-charges-60-times-faster-than-lithium-ion/?sh=69ecb1ce6d28
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koods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: ballsalsa]
#27340219 - 06/08/21 12:47 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Aluminum has a lot of properties similar to lithium. Lightweight and reactive. And an essentially unlimited supply.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (06/08/21 12:49 PM)
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#27340332 - 06/08/21 02:13 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well I dunno, I'm just an electrician, just like I don't build inverters, I don't build batteries either. We just get to deal with the engineering.
I will say the same thing I've said to the Clean Energy Council, that the idea of 2 million battery bombs in various states of neglect across the country is a bad idea. Fuck even Tesla recommends to 'just let them burn themselves out'. Did you read about the one firefighters couldn't put out in Texas?
We had to go back this year and inspect every LG Chem installation we have done as their Battery Management System(the key to the battery not becoming a fireball) was overcharging the battery to the point they were ready to burst the case.
Lithium are highly susceptible to thermal runaway... You're welcome to Google that if you like it's a real thing as is HEOS Helium. https://www.cell.com/iscience/pdf/S2589-0042(21)00145-0.pdf
The University of New South Wales are a venture partner, I doubt they'd be partnering in a snake oil scam with taxpayer funds unless they were backing a winner. Same with Nedstack. Same with Ampcontrol
Thing is there are many different battery technologies out there, the liquid bromide flow battery for instance, that haven't made it successfully to the production stage. This one has.
No one technology will get the planet out of the current mess, this is just another piece in the puzzle.
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koods
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Lithium reacts with water, but nothing like sodium or potassium. Water should be able to successfully smother a lithium fire, but CO2 extinguishers should do the trick. Or maybe lithium reacts with co2 like magnesium. Magnesium definitely burns in a CO2 atmosphere in a thermite type reaction where the oxygen is stripped off the carbon and then oxidizes the magnesium the same way aluminum strips the oxygen off of iron oxide.
I set my old dead iPhone battery on fire to see what happens and it was pretty disappointing. A dead battery has a lot less elemental lithium than a charged one tho.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (06/08/21 02:48 PM)
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#27340358 - 06/08/21 02:44 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Water should be able to successfully smother a lithium fire, but CO2 extinguishers should do the trick.
Short answer is they generate too much heat and keep reigniting from what I've read.
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Stable Genius
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#27340378 - 06/08/21 03:04 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: Have you seen the new aluminum/graphene batteries? No rare minerals involved. 60X charging speed compared to lithium. Potential game changer for electric vehicles. You could charge to full in a few minutes at a "gas" station.
big, if true https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltaylor/2021/05/13/ev-range-breakthrough-as-new-aluminum-ion-battery-charges-60-times-faster-than-lithium-ion/?sh=69ecb1ce6d28
That's another good link, and from the mighty state of Queensland as well. It'll be interesting to see if it makes it into production. The flow battery was engineered here also, I've worked with the guys that own the company. The flow battery has suffered problems with water contamination or something along those lines, but at least they don't go into meltdown like lithium.
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bodhisatta 
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Quote:
Stable Genius said: Well I dunno, I'm just an electrician, just like I don't build inverters, I don't build batteries either. We just get to deal with the engineering.
I will say the same thing I've said to the Clean Energy Council, that the idea of 2 million battery bombs in various states of neglect across the country is a bad idea. Fuck even Tesla recommends to 'just let them burn themselves out'. Did you read about the one firefighters couldn't put out in Texas?
We had to go back this year and inspect every LG Chem installation we have done as their Battery Management System(the key to the battery not becoming a fireball) was overcharging the battery to the point they were ready to burst the case.
Lithium are highly susceptible to thermal runaway... You're welcome to Google that if you like it's a real thing as is HEOS Helium. https://www.cell.com/iscience/pdf/S2589-0042(21)00145-0.pdf
The University of New South Wales are a venture partner, I doubt they'd be partnering in a snake oil scam with taxpayer funds unless they were backing a winner. Same with Nedstack. Same with Ampcontrol
Thing is there are many different battery technologies out there, the liquid bromide flow battery for instance, that haven't made it successfully to the production stage. This one has.
No one technology will get the planet out of the current mess, this is just another piece in the puzzle.
Sounds like the same unfounded concerns people had going from horses and electric cars to rolling gasoline bombs.
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koods
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Quote:
Stable Genius said:
Quote:
koods said: Water should be able to successfully smother a lithium fire, but CO2 extinguishers should do the trick.
Short answer is they generate too much heat and keep reigniting from what I've read.
Discharged lithium ion batteries arent particularly flammable. It’s the electrolyte that burns and they can be put out with water. In a discharged battery most of the lithium has been converted to a non reactive lithium ion.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (06/08/21 04:34 PM)
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