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OfflineTheFinNewGuy
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Conflicting info on spore management.
    #27339092 - 06/07/21 05:44 PM (10 days, 19 hours ago)

I've read advice that indicates that spores should be grown out and reprinted every couple of years to avoid dealing with old spores.

I've read in separate threads that every subsequent reprint becomes less viable because you are reducing genetic diversity every time you reprint.

Is there a middle ground?  I'm looking for a way to keep things going without having to repurchase spores.  Is there a way to keep things fresh and genetically diverse at the same time?

As always, you thoughts are appreciated


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OfflineFestivusmiracle
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Re: Conflicting info on spore management. [Re: TheFinNewGuy]
    #27339127 - 06/07/21 06:12 PM (10 days, 19 hours ago)

Total newb here but watching RR Let’s grow Mushrooms and he covered making culture slants that should keep your OG mycelium healthy for a long time if refrigerated. Samples from these can then be used to start new agar plates on down the road.  Maybe taking a transfer to a dish before you inoculate your spawn and then refrigerating that dish might be a intermediate step.  I enjoyed reading your prior post because it gave me the courage to transfer out the fluffy growth I thought might be mold but I’m almost certain is mycelium as the transfers seem to be looking more like the pics Ive seen posted here.


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Re: Conflicting info on spore management. [Re: Festivusmiracle]
    #27339242 - 06/07/21 07:15 PM (10 days, 18 hours ago)

well it's not 100% unture, but it's not like reprinting from the same genetics is gonna become non viable. More like they become "homogeneous" and less likely to vary much in appearance.


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Invisiblefungusul
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Re: Conflicting info on spore management. [Re: Festivusmiracle]
    #27339335 - 06/07/21 08:52 PM (10 days, 16 hours ago)

In my beginner opinion, every time you are using a print you start with a big pool of genes and subsequent prints will increase further this pool of genes, so you are increasing genetic diversity with each print.
The disadvantage of using prints(other than they are inherently dirty) is that you never know what your are going to get in the end.

Prints can be kept for years. The older they get, the longer it takes them to germinate, until they might not germinate at all. If the age of your prints is less than one year, you are probably OK, so you don't need any special techniques or special agar to revive old spores.

To get consistent results you need to save and clone your best exemplars.


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Invisiblestubb
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Re: Conflicting info on spore management. [Re: fungusul]
    #27339390 - 06/07/21 09:30 PM (10 days, 16 hours ago)

Quote:

fungusul said:
In my beginner opinion, every time you are using a print you start with a big pool of genes and subsequent prints will increase further this pool of genes, so you are increasing genetic diversity with each print.




I'm not quite sure that's accurate.  :shrug: 
From my own primitive understanding, when you're trying to stabilize a phenotype you selectively grow out subsequent prints to reduce genetic diversity.  I think this is why people cross strains, otherwise subsequent generations of mushrooms can only gain genetic diversity from mutations?


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OfflineCocaineBuffet
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Re: Conflicting info on spore management. [Re: stubb]
    #27339401 - 06/07/21 09:49 PM (10 days, 15 hours ago)

You won't need to purchase any more spores if you are using them to inoculate agar which can be expanded on its own to more than you can likely handle even if you are not taking clones from your grows. If you start cloning with agar you won't have any need to touch the original spores again unless you want to start the cycle over entirely.

Not sure if you were looking for a hypothetical answer versus common practice. :shrug:


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Re: Conflicting info on spore management. [Re: stubb]
    #27339406 - 06/07/21 09:53 PM (10 days, 15 hours ago)

You're both correct. That much I'm pretty sure. It's complicated af. Because they can have a shit ton of genetics going at once(not just a pair like animals and plants), and make incredible amounts of spores, you don't run into an inbreeding problem(like fungu saying). At the same time, things that are recessive or dominate traits tend to be stabilized and less likely to change with each generation(like stubb)

well, that's my layman's understanding anyway. I could be a little off there, but i think i'm pretty close. Fungus are complicated af.


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OfflineTheFinNewGuy
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Re: Conflicting info on spore management. [Re: LtLurker]
    #27339455 - 06/07/21 11:01 PM (10 days, 14 hours ago)

I guess I need to look more into keeping it on agar.  I've read that grain to grain should be limited to something like G4.  Wouldn't keeping it on agar have a similar limitation?  Isn't senescence the same for both?


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Re: Conflicting info on spore management. [Re: TheFinNewGuy]
    #27339477 - 06/07/21 11:26 PM (10 days, 14 hours ago)

G2g craps out from contams in the transfer more than senescence. A slant can last years and make tons of plates. Many refresh a slant every year or two without issue.


Edited by LtLurker (06/07/21 11:28 PM)


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