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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Kryptos]
    #27336931 - 06/06/21 12:53 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:


But nuclear can cause fossil fuels to stop being used.



Not without a reduction in population or a leap in technology.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Kryptos]
    #27336941 - 06/06/21 01:02 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

mndfreeze said:
Nuclear is the way forward with energy anyway, mixed with renewables.




You read up on the Chinese artificial sun?

Quote:

Enlil said:
Nuclear can't replace fossil fuel altogether, though.




But nuclear can cause fossil fuels to stop being used.




I think fossil fuels will be required for aviation and ships for a long time. We also need petrochemical feedstock for tons of materials


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27336956 - 06/06/21 01:18 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Chinese artificial sun is the future, man.

Batteries will power everything else. At some point.


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Invisiblehummingbird

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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #27337756 - 06/06/21 04:02 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, fusion is the future. That's the nuclear power we need. Better battery technology will help quite a bit to for renewables too.

Warren Buffet and Bill Gates building small "affordable" natrium fission plants all over the country isn't the way forward IMO. Seems like a great way for those two to make billions...and possibly some horrible accidents waiting along the way.


Edited by hummingbird (06/07/21 02:07 PM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: hummingbird]
    #27338476 - 06/07/21 05:35 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

If you regulate the power plant shanties you’ll just stifle innovation.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27338729 - 06/07/21 10:30 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Solar, wind, and tidal with pumped or equivalent storage is the future, but it won't happen that way unless we rid ourselves of The Problem first


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27338747 - 06/07/21 10:52 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Probably better to be realistic. That "problem" is not going away.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27338909 - 06/07/21 01:10 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not so sure. Seems like inevitable societal collapse should do the trick, but why wait?


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InvisibleLynnch
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27338934 - 06/07/21 01:25 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I wonder what runs out first, oil or drinkable water.


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Invisiblehummingbird

Registered: 06/29/14
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27339034 - 06/07/21 02:47 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

It's just sad though. I feel like true philanthropy would be directed towards advancing new technology that would change so much, instead of profiting off of a dangerous and toxic old technology. Other people are doing that obviously though, because I think its close to being figured out. Fusion would be so much more safe and efficient too, plus there's so much radioactive waste produced from fission and the enrichment of materials needed for the reaction.

I sometimes entertain the idea that that's what we need to do better as humans. We need to figure out how to bring shit together to really succeed and push our evolution ahead, not this violent breakaway reaction that seems to be speeding up...leaving piles of toxic waste in its wake.

We have a lot of problems really. This current virus issue is likely a small thing compared to what could be in store for the future, or what we've been through in the past somewhere. Our species is incredibly adaptable...to the point we can honestly question overpopulation. Society will exist as long as we do to some degree. How that evolves or devolves is more up to us than most of us know.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #27339051 - 06/07/21 03:01 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Probably better to be realistic. That "problem" is not going away.




We have, what, 6 years to radically alter the way we power our planet before we sentence like 99.9% of all living things to death, including a huge bit of humanity? What realistic scenarios are there for achieving that? If there aren’t any, then what’s the moral foundation of arguing for it? Eh fuck the planet we live on it’ll be too hard to save it.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27339082 - 06/07/21 03:33 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Solar, wind, and tidal with pumped or equivalent storage is the future




I've been looking at these, and they're available now. Sydney Morning Herald.

* $34 grand for a 40kwHr battery. That may sound expensive but it's at the same price point as LG Chem's Lithium battery right now. Next year the advertised price is $29 grand.
* 3 times as much storage as the current largest size LG Chem or Tesla II.
* Advertised to last 20 000 cycles, 3 times longer than the current Lithiums.
* Still needs an inverter/charger but the voltage input/output is the same as a low voltage LG Chem so it suits the existing inverters and solar currently available.
* Can deliver 5kw. That's the same amount of power as the current Tesla II configuration. Other grid connected battery inverters like QCells QHome or Sungrow can only deliver 3kw which sucks as that little detail is often buried in the fine print, Page 19 backup data.
* Carbon neutral and can be recycled easily.
* The Hydrogen metal hydride will not turn the house into a potential Hindenberg.



Also, when Andrew (Twiggy) Forrest gets his green Hydrogen Blast furnace demo plant built the capital investment shift away from coal fired steel production will happen very very quickly.
The company he founded Fortesque Metals are changing their dump trucks and iron ore trains to green hydrogen right now as well as trialling the iron ore ships to run on green Ammonia.

Check out Twiggy's ideas here





Edited by Stable Genius (06/07/21 03:48 PM)


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27339096 - 06/07/21 03:47 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

The only reasonable technology I can think of to produce hydrogen is nuclear power. The energy you get from hydrogen as a fuel has to be expended in making elemental hydrogen, usually through electrolysis.

Hydrogen as a fuel is a dumb idea.

Batteries are fine. You still need to produce electricity. Nuclear is the only reasonable technology to produce electricity on a massive scale.


Edited by koods (06/07/21 03:50 PM)


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27339098 - 06/07/21 03:49 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Why is Hydrogen a dumb idea koods?


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27339103 - 06/07/21 03:54 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Running electricity through water produces hydrogen.

You've seen central Australia, the sun shines 365 days a year = solar = electricity.


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27339105 - 06/07/21 03:57 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

It’s just a means of storing energy. It requires more energy to produce elemental hydrogen than you get out of it. It has a low energy density since it cannot be realistically liquified. And it cannot be stored for long periods of time because it leaks out of any material used to contain it.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27339113 - 06/07/21 04:05 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Nuclear 
Quote:

koods said:
Nuclear is the only reasonable technology to produce electricity on a massive scale.




It's not a bad idea apart from the waste, but I agree it's an option.
Twiggy has crunched the numbers and thinks he can do it. He's a good guy but he's also an astute business investor and wouldn't be putting his money where his mouth is to loose it.


I wasn't aware of any leakage problems but would also be very surprised if Lavo would be selling something that leaks Hydrogen.
Check it out.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27339125 - 06/07/21 04:11 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Solar, wind, and tidal with pumped or equivalent storage is the future




I've been looking at these, and they're available now. Sydney Morning Herald.






So are technologies I described. The primary difference bring that they are not optimized for modular sales to individual property owners and are much better suited to actual infrastructure systems that service everyone.

These guys have an interesting gravity storage solution. There are others. The main issue with moving to actual renewables (read:not fission or fusion) is the difficulty of justifying an ever increasing price on a functionally infinite and free power source. That's why we'll be chasing nuclear and chemical battery options until we eliminate The Problem


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27339148 - 06/07/21 04:27 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Yes storage is the problem. Pumped hydro is a fantastic idea.

Utility scale green Hydrogen will beat them all.


Edit; removed "as you know" storage is the problem.


Edited by Stable Genius (06/07/21 04:33 PM)


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InvisibleCrazy_Horse
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods] * 1
    #27339154 - 06/07/21 04:29 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Nuclear airplanes would be awesome.


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Edited by Crazy_Horse (06/07/21 04:35 PM)


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