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microbiome88
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What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms?
#27338415 - 06/07/21 03:57 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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As per title!
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Sekuen
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: microbiome88]
#27338434 - 06/07/21 04:32 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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You should read the book "entangled life" by Merlin Sheldrake if you haven't already. He discusses how the psilocybin synthase gene family horizontally transfers multiple times across organisms, indicating it does have an important role instead of being an experimental metabolite. Because the whole family is transferred instead of just single genes, psilocybin must be selected for.
Humans have artificially selected psilocybin mushrooms just like many other plants. I've heard a hypothesis that psilocybin was originally selected for its ability to prevent animals from eating more frutis by tripping. They trip so hard that they can't eat more! Or they get distracted from eating by the effects of the visuals, etc.
Edited by Sekuen (06/07/21 04:33 AM)
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DharmaForKarma
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: Sekuen]
#27338514 - 06/07/21 06:26 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sekuen said: You should read the book "entangled life" by Merlin Sheldrake if you haven't already. He discusses how the psilocybin synthase gene family horizontally transfers multiple times across organisms, indicating it does have an important role instead of being an experimental metabolite. Because the whole family is transferred instead of just single genes, psilocybin must be selected for.
Humans have artificially selected psilocybin mushrooms just like many other plants. I've heard a hypothesis that psilocybin was originally selected for its ability to prevent animals from eating more frutis by tripping. They trip so hard that they can't eat more! Or they get distracted from eating by the effects of the visuals, etc.
Thank you for mentioning Entangled Life. I read reviews last year and promptly forgot about it.
This is such a good area of research and discussion. Sekuen, the idea that psilocybin prevents animals from consuming mushrooms doesn’t seem sufficient. By chance do you recall more, or have a link? I can easily imagine eating many, many fresh cubes before the effects come up and I wander off to other things. If an association is made between the mushroom and the experience there could be hesitation or avoidance the next time, but that may take a while to learn.
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Sekuen
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: DharmaForKarma]
#27338551 - 06/07/21 07:22 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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No wokkas, it's definitely an interesting read.
I don't have any other ideas on this tbh, it's just a vague hypothesis. I'm just making guesses. You make a good point about an animal being able to eat many at a time before the effects come up. Maybe it's more relevant to insects which would be more prone where psilocybin mushrooms grow (e.g. in dung). I do want to investigate this interesting topic more!
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joze



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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: Sekuen]
#27339097 - 06/07/21 03:48 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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This article suggests that psilocybin may deter insects from eating the mushrooms. There's not a lot of information in the article, but that seems like a plausible hypothesis to me.
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DharmaForKarma
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: joze]
#27339141 - 06/07/21 04:24 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Good article! Thank you. Plausible. Gifts from the earth feels better but insect repellent works.
I learned lichen has psilocybin too. Boulder licking? Rock gardens? I’ll stick with cubes.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: DharmaForKarma] 1
#27339775 - 06/08/21 06:33 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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No one really knows. It's just a secondary metabolite. It just so happens to be something that's active in humans so we think it's there for some reason.
Quote:
Bioactive molecules like psilocybin are often presumed to have niche specific roles, but the ecological contexts in which they evolved are rarely known.
I think it's extremely doubtful that magic mushrooms contain magic molecules for any particular reason. The theory that it's human selection is pure ignorant romance. These mushrooms evolved over 50 million years ago long before any human intervention would put selective pressure on them. Like the book botany of desire it reads like the ramblings of someone who just got high for the first time
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: bodhisatta]
#27341285 - 06/09/21 08:37 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Absolutely
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l e a r n i n g t h i n g s
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microbiome88
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: bodhisatta]
#27342437 - 06/10/21 02:42 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thats the brutal rationalism I am after.
We are all the products of many googolplexes of conincidences. Whats one more?
It is very enticing to think (or feel) otherwise though.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: microbiome88]
#27342498 - 06/10/21 04:32 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nature recycles useful stable molecules. Tryptophan/indole compounds show up all the time like serotonin, vitamin b3, melatonin, dmt, etc...
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SpaceCube
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: bodhisatta]
#27345469 - 06/12/21 11:41 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Psiloycybin Theories
1. Its a non-lethal 'poison' to cause a dream-state to distract the mushroom-eater, to cause them to trip and wander somewhere else.
2. Psilocybin could be a neurotransmitter, used by the mushrooms to increase intelligence and consciousness, and when humans eat mushrooms we get the same neurotransmitter benefit. Psilocybin could be produced to help the mushroom think, basically.
3. Mushrooms could be an funny fungus. ahhahahaha
Edited by SpaceCube (06/12/21 08:47 PM)
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bodhisatta 
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: SpaceCube]
#27345533 - 06/12/21 12:44 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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1. That certainly didn't work. People go visit fields just to find and pick them. Not stay away
2. It is a neurotransmitter not an endogenous one but it's a similar molecule to serotonin and can act on our receptors. Nature reuses molecules a lot. It's not strange to find plants with compounds that affect mammals.
3. Lol wut
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Big_Dub
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: SpaceCube] 2
#27345686 - 06/12/21 03:06 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpaceCube said: 3. Mushrooms could be an Alien probe, because a common theme when people trip is see'ing UFOs, so the Mushroom could be an Alien Technology/Alien Probe. This is the theory I belive most in, based upon personal experience.
Too much Terence mckenna
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Cyonic
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: Big_Dub]
#27345733 - 06/12/21 03:50 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Mycelium is the neural network of the soil)earth. Maybe it's a way to form a synapse, or neurological connection from the neural network of the earth with the neural network of higher mammals as a form of communication.
I think more curious than mushrooms producing 4 OH DMT/psilocin or as unlike to call it, oral DMT, is that Pan cyan comes with psilocin and seratonin.
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Big_Dub
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: Cyonic] 1
#27345751 - 06/12/21 04:04 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Damn this is hardly advanced mycology
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Zwinst
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: Big_Dub]
#27346496 - 06/13/21 08:05 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well, i don´t buy that psilocybin deters insects. They dont care about mushroom poisons. Neither do snails.
But cows and deer do! I have that theory that cows actually seek out those little brown mushrooms and want to get high. No joke! When you open up a new area for them, they start inspecting the whole field before eating anything. Guess what they are looking for...  Deer and boar on the other hand avoid tripping, as far as i know. So hallucinogens may be usefull to deter them.
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Cyonic
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: Zwinst]
#27346642 - 06/13/21 10:22 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Zwinst said: Well, i don´t buy that psilocybin deters insects. They dont care about mushroom poisons. Neither do snails.
But cows and deer do! I have that theory that cows actually seek out those little brown mushrooms and want to get high. No joke! When you open up a new area for them, they start inspecting the whole field before eating anything. Guess what they are looking for...  Deer and boar on the other hand avoid tripping, as far as i know. So hallucinogens may be usefull to deter them.
Are you sure that deer don't eat psilocybe? Deer and elk certainly eat amanita muscaria.
Fungus is a large part of wild pigs diets. I don't know if they avoid psilocybe, but fungus is a major part of their diet. They eat rotten wood, mycelium in the ground. They might be picky about mushrooms in not sure.
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Zwinst
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: Cyonic]
#27346712 - 06/13/21 11:30 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cyonic said: Are you sure that deer don't eat psilocybe? Deer and elk certainly eat amanita muscaria.
Fungus is a large part of wild pigs diets. I don't know if they avoid psilocybe, but fungus is a major part of their diet. They eat rotten wood, mycelium in the ground. They might be picky about mushrooms in not sure.
Well, i only know that deer avoid weed. They only eat from it once... so i figured they dont like the high.  I know that they eat hypholoma and kuehneromyces. Never heard of them eating amanita. But i could be wrong. Boar eat lots of mushrooms, yes. Most of the time they get the truffles before me. But i have seen lots of potentially active (different amanitas) in places where boar rest and they never touch them. I dont think they eat boletus or xerocomus either. So they might be picky.
I think someone needs a grant for research on this topic.
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Cyonic
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: Zwinst]
#27346845 - 06/13/21 01:47 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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That's interesting. Here in northern California deer are one of the biggest weed pests.
I met someone from Oregon whose dad was on some reality show for having a pet deer that they fed weed to. The deer was stoned all the time. It would go into small markets and steal chocolate bars or somethingn like that. I'll see if I can find it on YouTube and link to it.
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Cyonic
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: Cyonic]
#27346852 - 06/13/21 01:53 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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SpaceCube
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: Cyonic]
#27347226 - 06/13/21 08:24 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thats pretty funny mate.
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Zwinst
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: Cyonic]
#27347479 - 06/14/21 02:55 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thats hilarious! 
Well, in north america you have Odocoileus virginianus - white tailed deer, they are called deer but they are not true deer. I was referring to Capreolus capreolus - roe deer, the european deer.
In the future i have too look stuff like that up before i post...
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Cyonic
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: Zwinst]
#27347862 - 06/14/21 11:40 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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They are all deer in the cervidae family according to what I just read. There are actually more than one kind of deer here too. There are white tail, black tail, mule deer and elk.
I think the difference is what is called an elk in europe is not what we call elk here in the states.
What europeans call elk, we call moose.
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Zwinst
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Re: What biochemical/metabolic role does psilocybin hold in mushrooms? [Re: Cyonic]
#27348609 - 06/14/21 11:57 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah, it is confusing.
Back to the topic: What metabolic role does psilocybin play? I would say energy storage. There is a phosphate group. And it is being split off to produce ATP and psilocin. Mystery solved.
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