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Offlinegone-pear-shaped
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1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective
    #27336173 - 06/05/21 12:08 PM (13 days, 2 hours ago)

I took 1.6 g (dry) in tea and had closed and open eye visuals. At a couple points I felt like I'd been transported away--once to a room of colors, another time to a desert village. I think I cried, but didn't feel particularly emotional. The heavy part of the trip was over after two hours.

Afterwards I felt cleansed, as though I had had an emotional release, but there were no revelations about myself, nothing that seemed mystical or spiritual. Is that supposed to happen, or do changes in perspective only happen with ego destroying doses? (It could also have been because I was pretty distracted during the trip.)


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InvisibleMindMeower
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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: gone-pear-shaped] * 1
    #27336175 - 06/05/21 12:14 PM (13 days, 1 hour ago)

You're probably gonna need a significantly larger dose for that sort of effect and probably less distractions, at least when you're going to try to seek what you want. Set and setting do matter and you'll want things to be conductive to what you will seek from the trip.

It sounds like you still had a pretty good experience ~


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: gone-pear-shaped] * 1
    #27336294 - 06/05/21 02:47 PM (12 days, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

gone-pear-shaped said:
I took 1.6 g (dry) in tea and had closed and open eye visuals. At a couple points I felt like I'd been transported away--once to a room of colors, another time to a desert village. I think I cried, but didn't feel particularly emotional. The heavy part of the trip was over after two hours.

Afterwards I felt cleansed, as though I had had an emotional release, but there were no revelations about myself, nothing that seemed mystical or spiritual. Is that supposed to happen, or do changes in perspective only happen with ego destroying doses? (It could also have been because I was pretty distracted during the trip.)



In the subculture of psychedelics, you may not be able to find a good definition of ego loss, however, most claimants to the effect actually describe complete cognition failure and either blackout or coming back from being gone, which is the same - heavy dose experience.

drifting away as you describe is possibly a gentle version of it.

I think that your use and your dose is a comfortable  foray into the realm of psychedelics, and I support that approach wholeheartedly.

3 factors always prevail, mind-set (including mood and mental contents (which is everything in your personality really)), setting, and dose.

there is lots more to discover at the dose you took, and you could take 50% more to see what the fuss is about, although I am not sure about the particular benefits of going deeper exactly.

hope that helps


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27336483 - 06/05/21 06:01 PM (12 days, 20 hours ago)

Personally i think it's enough to have some ego dissolution without dissolving the ego entirely, to bring forth unconscious material and insights and mystical experiences.

As for the OP, definitely need to raise the dosage, cut out external distractions, lay in bed, either in silence or with music through headphones, closed eyes, attention focused inwards.


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OnlinePrimalSoup
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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: gone-pear-shaped] * 1
    #27336588 - 06/05/21 07:40 PM (12 days, 18 hours ago)

Quote:

gone-pear-shaped said:
Afterwards I felt cleansed, as though I had had an emotional release, but there were no revelations about myself, nothing that seemed mystical or spiritual. Is that supposed to happen, or do changes in perspective only happen with ego destroying doses? (It could also have been because I was pretty distracted during the trip.)




Y'all had a mild trip.  You'd need to go higher to get more than what happened. :cookiemonster:


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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #27336901 - 06/06/21 02:18 AM (12 days, 11 hours ago)

You should try not to have expectations but rather focus what could be learned.


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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27338462 - 06/07/21 07:13 AM (11 days, 6 hours ago)

I like to focus on what what is happening now, what the trained beast of the self is doing now, and relaxing as much as possible with these two main interests.


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OfflineSocrateshroomS
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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #27338587 - 06/07/21 10:11 AM (11 days, 4 hours ago)

Sounds like you had a good trip OP.

Don't get too caught up in the "ego-death" contests on the internet (coincidentally they ooze of ego).

There are many changes to the ego during a psychedelic trip. Some are mild and can be described as "distancing" oneself from their ego to various degrees.

Others can be overwhelmingly intense, like feeling the ego being ripped apart (at which point you'll feel the ego more deeply than you've ever had.) I had this sort of experience on a higher dose of APEs. I had been chasing "ego death" and instead got the opposite, a full on ego swell to the point where I was clinging on for dear life (metaphorically speaking).

And then there's what's best described as RGV said

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
most claimants to the effect actually describe complete cognition failure and either blackout or coming back from being gone, which is the same - heavy dose experience.





And in the "black-out" experience, I'm not sure there's much wisdom. I've never been there on mushrooms but I've blacked out plenty in my days of drinking and it's the opposite of "enlightenment" or "revelation". It's just "the fuck happened" when you wake up.

Now there's the "cognition failure" aspect of ego-death that RGV describes that, usually, is accompanied by "visions", indescribably psychedelic experience and the likes. Of course I assume that is where your interest lies, as it is where mine does.

With all of that being said, ego-death should not the only goal of psychedelics. Especially because "ego-death" is a deceptive term. You cannot obliterate your ego sans perhaps death. What you can do is separate yourself from its hold over you (especially if, like me, you struggle with it). And when its grip is loosened, you can really observe and introspect from a more liberating perspective.

And, in my experience, "mid" doses seem to be the best balance between "ego-dissolution" and introspection.

(Not to knock higher doses. There is something incredible and intangible to experience at higher doses and as time goes on in my experimenting, I shy away from lower doses. But I still mainly enjoy "mid" doses with higher doses reserved for occasion).


With all of that said, it is also important to note that not every trip will be a pouring of ancient cosmic wisdom.

On the surface, without post trip observation/integration, some trips will just be fun. Others will just be difficult. Some will just be blissful. Others confusing. Some might give you what seem like basic revelations into yourself. Others might be heavy with cosmic wisdom.

The range of experiences on psychedelics is so vast, that limiting it, and expecting, just one type of experience will result in dissapointment more often than not.

It's why experienced psychonauts always say "Let go". Go where the trip takes you.


--------------------
“What comes true here is that which reflects your true nature. The most secret desire. It is within you. It governs you. Yet you are ignorant of it.”

- Andrei Tarkovsy, Stalker



redgreenvines said:
seek wonder, not pleasure and you will love psychedelics again, if you did in your youth. Sometimes it means be a student again. sometimes quite literally.


My First Trip


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Offlinegone-pear-shaped
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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #27338719 - 06/07/21 12:25 PM (11 days, 1 hour ago)

I actually don't believe in stuff like "ancient cosmic wisdom", so I was relieved to still be skeptical as usual after the trip.

And for a day after the trip, my ego was weaker. I know what that's like from meditation, though I don't currently practice. Weaker ego == less tendency to get swept away by negative emotions or self talk. More likely to go with the flow in unpleasant ways, like doing the dishes when the sink comes into my field of view instead of watching youtube. Less talking and story telling. I know some of the meditative practices that can seriously weaken/distance the ego, but I'm not willing to put in the work right now. In any case I've never heard of long term awakening coming from psychedelics.

But what about high doses helping people with addiction, depression, or fear of death? Is that because of some perspective shift that happens during the trip, or might it be more of a neural or chemical change?


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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: gone-pear-shaped]
    #27338948 - 06/07/21 03:38 PM (10 days, 22 hours ago)

And you won't hear about long term awakening coming from psychedelics, for obvious reasons.  If it happens and it's genuine you don't talk about it.  Just like with meditation.  You don't need to talk about it.  You just manifest it.

People that talk about awakening coming from any source are people trying to sell it to you in some way, not people who are experiencing it.  :shrug:


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27339042 - 06/07/21 04:53 PM (10 days, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
And you won't hear about long term awakening coming from psychedelics, for obvious reasons.  If it happens and it's genuine you don't talk about it.  Just like with meditation.  You don't need to talk about it.  You just manifest it.

People that talk about awakening coming from any source are people trying to sell it to you in some way, not people who are experiencing it.  :shrug:




Only reason not to talk about true awakening is because people wouldn't understand, ime. But imo, we should still talk about it, even if people don't understand.


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OnlinePrimalSoup
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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: Sabnock]
    #27339059 - 06/07/21 05:09 PM (10 days, 21 hours ago)

True, but how do you even talk about it?  Talking doesn't get there. :shrug:


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OfflineSocrateshroomS
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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: gone-pear-shaped]
    #27339068 - 06/07/21 05:19 PM (10 days, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
True, but how do you even talk about it?  Talking doesn't get there. :shrug:




I'd agree, how do you put it into words?

Although I'd agree with Sabnock that you should talk about it, even if it's just to explore it with others.

Quote:

gone-pear-shaped said:
But what about high doses helping people with addiction, depression, or fear of death? Is that because of some perspective shift that happens during the trip, or might it be more of a neural or chemical change?




Depends on the trip. But my second most intense trip (which was my first ever trip) radically changed my perspective. I didn't see God or anything of that nature, but I had some intense CEVs and heavy geometric OEVs and my ego had been crushed for the duration of that trip.

That space where I could think outside of my ego liberated me of so much needless suffering (produced by inability to escape the ego). And that liberation helped me with crippling depression (literally turned me from suicidal, angry and resentful to understanding and loving). Not that I still don't have those negative emotions, but that radical shift in perspective helped me turned my life around then and there.


--------------------
“What comes true here is that which reflects your true nature. The most secret desire. It is within you. It governs you. Yet you are ignorant of it.”

- Andrei Tarkovsy, Stalker



redgreenvines said:
seek wonder, not pleasure and you will love psychedelics again, if you did in your youth. Sometimes it means be a student again. sometimes quite literally.


My First Trip


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OnlinePrimalSoup
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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: PrimalSoup] * 1
    #27339069 - 06/07/21 05:21 PM (10 days, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
True, but how do you even talk about it?  Talking doesn't get there. :shrug:




I was gonna add it's just a process - you can awaken, but you can't have awakening.

And beyond that, IME you can't even have a memory of awakening.  It's just suddenly there, and suddenly obvious.

So OK maybe you can talk about it a bit.  But I sure as fuck can't explain it to anybody in a way that allows them to experience it without them going through their own process, on their own. :shrug:


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Offlinegone-pear-shaped
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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27339519 - 06/08/21 01:10 AM (10 days, 13 hours ago)

@Socrates, you did have a long term awakening or awakening-like changes from tripping? I really did not know that could happen.

As for talking about it, some don't (they can't or don't understand it or fear being told they are crazy), but others evangelize. I tried to evangelize after I had had a taste of it. It would be harder to admit if the cause were drugs.


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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: gone-pear-shaped]
    #27339694 - 06/08/21 07:01 AM (10 days, 7 hours ago)

always do a little meditation and yoga every day
and all days
as much as possible


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maybe just meaning as much to it as possible
and anti-meaning as little to it as possible


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OfflineSocrateshroomS
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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: gone-pear-shaped]
    #27340272 - 06/08/21 03:21 PM (9 days, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

gone-pear-shaped said:
@Socrates, you did have a long term awakening or awakening-like changes from tripping? I really did not know that could happen.

As for talking about it, some don't (they can't or don't understand it or fear being told they are crazy), but others evangelize. I tried to evangelize after I had had a taste of it. It would be harder to admit if the cause were drugs.




Let me clarify, I don't believe I've had an "awakening". What I have experienced from tripping (mostly from my first trip) is a radical change in my emotional and psychological states. And in that regards, I am living proof that psychedelics can radically change a perception (permanently) as everyone around me can attest to. However, this isn't anything "special". Healing trauma(s) in any way shape or form (such as through good therapy) can make such radical shift in perception occur as well.

I'm still exploring, albeit with a lot of trouble, the concept of "awakening" and am still probably VERY far off from achieving any state close to it.


--------------------
“What comes true here is that which reflects your true nature. The most secret desire. It is within you. It governs you. Yet you are ignorant of it.”

- Andrei Tarkovsy, Stalker



redgreenvines said:
seek wonder, not pleasure and you will love psychedelics again, if you did in your youth. Sometimes it means be a student again. sometimes quite literally.


My First Trip


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OnlinePrimalSoup
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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #27340315 - 06/08/21 04:02 PM (9 days, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

Socrateshroom said:
Quote:

gone-pear-shaped said:
@Socrates, you did have a long term awakening or awakening-like changes from tripping? I really did not know that could happen.

As for talking about it, some don't (they can't or don't understand it or fear being told they are crazy), but others evangelize. I tried to evangelize after I had had a taste of it. It would be harder to admit if the cause were drugs.




Let me clarify, I don't believe I've had an "awakening". What I have experienced from tripping (mostly from my first trip) is a radical change in my emotional and psychological states. And in that regards, I am living proof that psychedelics can radically change a perception (permanently) as everyone around me can attest to. However, this isn't anything "special". Healing trauma(s) in any way shape or form (such as through good therapy) can make such radical shift in perception occur as well.

I'm still exploring, albeit with a lot of trouble, the concept of "awakening" and am still probably VERY far off from achieving any state close to it.




Exactly.  But "awakening" by the same token isn't anything special either.  It's completely ordinary when it happens. 

This is emphasized time and again in Buddhist practice lest people get attached to the idea of "achieving" something which is ultimately a simplification back to original functioning of mind.


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OfflineSocrateshroomS
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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #27340341 - 06/08/21 04:27 PM (9 days, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

Socrateshroom said:
Quote:

gone-pear-shaped said:
@Socrates, you did have a long term awakening or awakening-like changes from tripping? I really did not know that could happen.

As for talking about it, some don't (they can't or don't understand it or fear being told they are crazy), but others evangelize. I tried to evangelize after I had had a taste of it. It would be harder to admit if the cause were drugs.




Let me clarify, I don't believe I've had an "awakening". What I have experienced from tripping (mostly from my first trip) is a radical change in my emotional and psychological states. And in that regards, I am living proof that psychedelics can radically change a perception (permanently) as everyone around me can attest to. However, this isn't anything "special". Healing trauma(s) in any way shape or form (such as through good therapy) can make such radical shift in perception occur as well.

I'm still exploring, albeit with a lot of trouble, the concept of "awakening" and am still probably VERY far off from achieving any state close to it.




Exactly.  But "awakening" by the same token isn't anything special either.  It's completely ordinary when it happens. 

This is emphasized time and again in Buddhist practice lest people get attached to the idea of "achieving" something which is ultimately a simplification back to original functioning of mind.





I always go back to an Alan Watts quote to remind me exactly what you said

"the understanding of-- Well, we'll call it mystical experiences, one of the most dangerous things in the world. And for a person who cannot contain it, it's like putting a million volts through your electric shaver. You blow your mind and it stays blown. Now, if you go off in that way, that is what would be called in Buddhism a pratyeka- buddha--'private buddha'. He is one who goes off into the transcendental world and is never seen again. And he's made a mistake from the standpoint of Buddhism, because from the standpoint of Buddhism, there is no fundamental difference between the transcendental world and this everyday world. The bodhisattva, you see, who doesn't go off into a nirvana and stay there forever and ever, but comes back and lives ordinary everyday life to help other beings to see through it, too, he doesn't come back because he feels he has some sort of solemn duty to help mankind and all that kind of pious cant. He comes back because he sees the two worlds are the same."


--------------------
“What comes true here is that which reflects your true nature. The most secret desire. It is within you. It governs you. Yet you are ignorant of it.”

- Andrei Tarkovsy, Stalker



redgreenvines said:
seek wonder, not pleasure and you will love psychedelics again, if you did in your youth. Sometimes it means be a student again. sometimes quite literally.


My First Trip


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Offlinegone-pear-shaped
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Re: 1.6 g: no revealing of meaning, no change in perspective [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #27340929 - 06/09/21 01:37 AM (9 days, 12 hours ago)

Yeah, I agree with what Primal said. Being awakened (and I'm not right now) isn't "having an awakening" or "awakening". Those phrases are misleading because they make it sound like a big production occurs in your consciousness. It's actually more like: a person starts to tell fewer stories about themselves in their head (less narrative voice) and feeling more at peace with life in general.

Though in a state of temporary awakening I had, I also felt really really good (better than getting a full night of sleep and having a perfect day), bu I couldn't account for why that happened--why should the quieting of the narrative self feel so good? But ultimately it doesn't matter. And most awakened states don't feel joyous. They are just deep down positive. (Though being suffused with love or feeling completely at one with the universe are also possible.)


Edited by gone-pear-shaped (06/09/21 01:38 AM)


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