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Offlineparadoxlost
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: BuiltToLast]
    #27523680 - 10/30/21 06:01 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

So you're saying it's automated so in 50 years the government will forget how to read the manual and not know how to track anything


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[quote]koods said:
Asante, I don’t think we should have any sympathy and should celebrate the deaths of antivax/antimask activists. They are responsible for far more American deaths than al Qaeda ever was. Every time one of them dies ther movement of death is weakened.ut[/quote]

[quote]koods said:
Chasing variants with vaccines is a dumb idea[/quote]


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Offlinekoods
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: paradoxlost]
    #27523756 - 10/30/21 07:29 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

There are forums on the Shroomery that you can only view if you are logged in as a member and this prevents bots from indexing the contents of those forums


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleBuiltToLast
Stranger than most
I'm a teapot
Registered: 10/09/21
Posts: 12
Loc: New England, USA
Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: paradoxlost]
    #27523976 - 10/30/21 11:25 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

paradoxlost said:
So you're saying it's automated so in 50 years the government will forget how to read the manual and not know how to track anything




Absolutely. But right now apple is trying to do it with their phones in private hands with the searching the devices for child pornography every time there’s a connection to apples servers for updates and what have you. Granted, I’m 100% against child porn, exploitation or harm. But someone did show how easily the parameters could be changed, by say a rogue government agent.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: BuiltToLast]
    #27523978 - 10/30/21 11:26 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

They aren’t doing it, after they got tons of pushback


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineRedRH
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: Anonymous #1] * 1
    #27609281 - 01/06/22 03:17 PM (2 years, 21 days ago)

I worked for over 20 years in the wireless service provider space engineering the core Radio Access Network. I recommend the following channel to answer all of your mobile device security concerns and how to bring surveillance to a dead stop. Check out "Rob Braxman Tech" on YT. I have reviewed his claims and am very confident that he knows what he is talking about as I found nothing in conflict with what I know of the core, access edge, and end user mobile device security. If you follow consistent security practices and utilize OS builds developed specifically to avoid surveillance, the police will be left with nothing. Android and IOS user data can be recovered by law enforcement even if you remotely wipe your device. Loading an operating system that is tailored to prevent surveillance and the use of mobile devices specifically built with anti surveillance firmware will leave all alphabet agencies with nothing and will do a true wipe of the phone remotely or triggered by attempts to circumvent such as entering the passphrase incorrectly after x number of attempts. The problem with these phones is that they are not forgiving and will unrecoverably brick the phone if you forget your passphrase.

With these phones you must use a VPN and secure messaging. Never forget that your voice calls can and will be intercepted if you are a target for surveillance through the CALEA appliances that are required by law and integrated into all voice, wireless, and ISP networks. Assume anything not encrypted end to end will be prone to successful surveillance methods. I can reveal that all agencies at the state level share and have access to each others surveillance abilities. I have confirmed that state AG's technical investigations teams all are connected with each other as I have verified this when migrating their network Cisco ASA and SonicWall platforms. Within the configurations they label their connections to other state and federal agencies and also label each surveillance session. I thought they would use a case number to label each surveillance session, but they included the case number and the name of the surveillance target. I cannot name the state AG's office I am referring to for obvious reasons and will only say it is one of the largest cities in the country.

Some of their clever surveillance methods I observed in their office:
Parking meters
Pole mounted transformers

They actively sweep all wireless communications to include WiFi.

Rob Braxman explains the abilities that the NSA has had for some time now and that lawful intercept firmware is now built into all wireless routers. These routers all transparently mesh with adjacent neighbor routers forming a dense mesh that tracks all internet connected devices within your home and they can associate mobile devices to these networks to track location data even when you are not actively engaged in a user session. Notice that modern cell phones do not have a removeable battery and that is because even when you have powered you phone off, it is still accessible by alphabet agencies and can be "woken up" without you knowing that the camera and mic can be woken up and active, even when your phone is powered down via WiFi and/or cellular connection to the cell tower. This cannot be done and is circumvented on secure phones not running IOS or Android. Samsung, Google, Apple, Zte, Huawei, etc are all compromised. Phones even when turned off must be placed in a Faraday cage or box if you are super paranoid or suspect you are a target of surveillance.

I would suspect that WiFi is in over 70% of homes. Even if you do not have a wireless network in your home, your smart appliances and other devices transparently mesh with all other wireless networks around them. Those that have access remotely to these devices know the following:

If you are home, how many people are in the home, and where each person is within the home by utilizing reflected RF signal changes.

Do not forget that now all internet traffic to include source/destination IP address and the payload of every packet is collected by the NSA. Although you may not be a target now, if you ever become a target, they have a history on location data and everything you have done on the internet. I use a VPN and TOR along with GPG. I have not broken down an purchased uncompromised mobile devices and WiFi routers yet, but it is on the list.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: RedRH]
    #27609890 - 01/07/22 12:56 AM (2 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

RedRH said:
Android and IOS user data can be recovered by law enforcement even if you remotely wipe your device.




How would they do that? 

I did a Google search and couldn't find any evidence that the data is still present after a phone is wiped.


Quote:

Rob Braxman explains the abilities that the NSA has had for some time now and that lawful intercept firmware is now built into all wireless routers.




Which video talks about this?



Quote:

Notice that modern cell phones do not have a removeable battery and that is because even when you have powered you phone off, it is still accessible by alphabet agencies and can be "woken up" without you knowing that the camera and mic can be woken up and active, even when your phone is powered down via WiFi and/or cellular connection to the cell tower.




I suppose, but it would need to be told to wake up at a certain time, because it would be obvious if it was communicating when it was off by monitoring with a spectrum analyzer or RF field strength meter.  It would also drain the battery a lot of it was receiving radio signals when it was off.


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OfflineInsultingLizard
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: RedRH]
    #27610448 - 01/07/22 12:53 PM (2 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

I would suspect that WiFi is in over 70% of homes. Even if you do not have a wireless network in your home, your smart appliances and other devices transparently mesh with all other wireless networks around them. Those that have access remotely to these devices know the following:

If you are home, how many people are in the home, and where each person is within the home by utilizing reflected RF signal changes.



Complete bullshit. Both human bodies and walls are mostly transparent to radio. I'll believe someone can construct a makeshift radar for humans out of commercial access points when I see it. This is like saying you could count the hotdogs on your plate by screaming at it. Actually that sounds much more plausible.


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: InsultingLizard]
    #27610473 - 01/07/22 01:16 PM (2 years, 20 days ago)

:lolsy:

BRB gonna yell at some chicken tenders


--------------------


sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: InsultingLizard]
    #27610994 - 01/07/22 09:00 PM (2 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

InsultingLizard said:
Quote:

I would suspect that WiFi is in over 70% of homes. Even if you do not have a wireless network in your home, your smart appliances and other devices transparently mesh with all other wireless networks around them. Those that have access remotely to these devices know the following:

If you are home, how many people are in the home, and where each person is within the home by utilizing reflected RF signal changes.



Complete bullshit. Both human bodies and walls are mostly transparent to radio. I'll believe someone can construct a makeshift radar for humans out of commercial access points when I see it. This is like saying you could count the hotdogs on your plate by screaming at it. Actually that sounds much more plausible.




I think he is saying that your wireless routers know you are home because they see the MAC address of your cell phone appear.  Whether they transmit this data to anyone I doubt however - unless it's an Apple or Google branded router.    Linksys or any other router manufacturer has no incentive to share which devices it can see with anyone.

I also doubt that most routers transparently mesh with all the other devices around them.  There is no reason for them to do that.


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: InsultingLizard] * 1
    #27611324 - 01/08/22 07:07 AM (2 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

InsultingLizard said:
Quote:

I would suspect that WiFi is in over 70% of homes. Even if you do not have a wireless network in your home, your smart appliances and other devices transparently mesh with all other wireless networks around them. Those that have access remotely to these devices know the following:

If you are home, how many people are in the home, and where each person is within the home by utilizing reflected RF signal changes.



Complete bullshit. Both human bodies and walls are mostly transparent to radio. I'll believe someone can construct a makeshift radar for humans out of commercial access points when I see it. This is like saying you could count the hotdogs on your plate by screaming at it. Actually that sounds much more plausible.




I have a degree in physics. Radio waves are the R in radar and you can most certainly see things like birds and humans with radar. Likewise you can see weather systems with radar and they are mostly water just like the human body. Also you only need a small amount of scatter back radiation to see objects.

If you have any further doubt as to the veracity of this claim by RedRH here is a video from the AP about researchers at MIT using wifi to see people through walls





You guys might be brilliant mycologist but you are not physicist or technologists.


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OfflineInsultingLizard
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #27612404 - 01/09/22 03:24 AM (2 years, 18 days ago)

If you're a scientist then you should understand the importance of reading the source papers instead of relying on second-hand reports in media:
https://www.media.mit.edu/publications/see-through-walls-with-wifi/
TL;DR: they're indeed using Wi-Fi, but likely only to get around FCC regulations. They're not using a COTS AP or client transciever, they built a device that scans the environment and listens for the signal bounces. I.e. it's a radar that operates in the Wi-Fi band. The novel part is that they're using ML to filter-out bounces from walls and other static objects.

A radar and an antenna* are not the same thing. It's like saying that because you can etch metal with a laser you should be able to do it with a candle, since they're both just visible light.


EDIT: Obviously I'm referring to omnidirectional antennas as used almost universally in Wi-Fi. Of course the emitters of radar beams are antennas too.


Edited by InsultingLizard (01/09/22 03:28 AM)


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InvisibleGuy1980
Registered: 09/11/12
Posts: 723
Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: InsultingLizard]
    #27612431 - 01/09/22 04:54 AM (2 years, 18 days ago)

I don't think the original comment suggested RADAR, although they did say reflected signal changes, they might have been talking about responses from devices rather than RF signal reflection.

It's entirely possible theoretically to locate a device to a location in a building based on multiple RSSI readings.  It's difficult though due to multipath interference.

If all devices mesh and report RSS, it becomes easier (multiple signal strength readings to fingerprint a location) but computationally more difficult.


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Invisiblekreg
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: Guy1980]
    #27612432 - 01/09/22 04:59 AM (2 years, 18 days ago)

I was actually assuming some members of the mod team may even be LEO. I mean Enlil he's cool he's here helps people and he works in the law world right, not a mod sure whatever but I think you can follow my logos. I keep seeing lots of medical worker bros around, super mad respect for that. I remember once I was shroomin alone once when I was super new to dosing and I panicked and called for a paramedic to check my vitals at one point, and the responder I talked to was so cool Ill never forget me telling him how I was feeling and him replying "damn, sounds like you got some good shit dude." :lol:


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: kreg]
    #27612499 - 01/09/22 07:01 AM (2 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

InsultingLizard said:
If you're a scientist then you should understand the importance of reading the source papers instead of relying on second-hand reports in media:
https://www.media.mit.edu/publications/see-through-walls-with-wifi/
TL;DR: they're indeed using Wi-Fi, but likely only to get around FCC regulations. They're not using a COTS AP or client transciever, they built a device that scans the environment and listens for the signal bounces. I.e. it's a radar that operates in the Wi-Fi band. The novel part is that they're using ML to filter-out bounces from walls and other static objects.

A radar and an antenna* are not the same thing. It's like saying that because you can etch metal with a laser you should be able to do it with a candle, since they're both just visible light.


EDIT: Obviously I'm referring to omnidirectional antennas as used almost universally in Wi-Fi. Of course the emitters of radar beams are antennas too.




I was dumbing it down for you. You can use omnidirectional antena when you have more than one physically separated. You can argue pedentic points all you want but if MIT is publishing a capability you can bet darpa has a more advanced capability.


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OfflineInsultingLizard
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #27612947 - 01/09/22 01:14 PM (2 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

I was dumbing it down for you.


You'll have to excuse me if I don't believe that.

Quote:

You can use omnidirectional antena when you have more than one physically separated.


Like I said, I'll believe it when I see it.

Quote:

You can argue pedentic points all you want


The distinction between a COTS AP and a specially designed radio emitter is pedantic to you?

Quote:

but if MIT is publishing a capability you can bet darpa has a more advanced capability.


Pure speculation. Was that video all you had to back up your claim?


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OfflineInsultingLizard
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: Guy1980] * 1
    #27612991 - 01/09/22 01:38 PM (2 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Guy1980 said:
I don't think the original comment suggested RADAR, although they did say reflected signal changes, they might have been talking about responses from devices rather than RF signal reflection.

It's entirely possible theoretically to locate a device to a location in a building based on multiple RSSI readings.  It's difficult though due to multipath interference.



They're talking about detecting the location of a person inside a building. Triangulation of an active radio source is relatively easy to do; you just need to keep adding measurements from different positions until you nail it down. That's how wardriving apps work. You can't do the same for a person, for obvious reasons, and I'm arguing that impossible to do it just using COTS hardware.

Yes, you can see living beings in radar, but radar uses a fairly strong, shaped beam of radio. Radars are designed to cover the furthest distance possible and to spot the smallest objects possible, regardless of how much power needs to be pumped into the antenna. A Wi-Fi transceiver is designed to cover the widest area that's possible in its power budget. It just needs to produce a signal that will be visible to its peer, and it specifically should not be able to see its own reflected signal, since then it's just adding to the interference it needs to filter out. Since Wi-Fi passes through walls but is slightly attenuated, it follows that solid objects are mostly transparent to it, so that means only a small fraction of the already wimpy signal gets reflected off a body back to the source. If the argument is that it's possible to pick this out of the noise floor in a typical environment, which is already full of extraneous Wi-Fi noise, using just off-the-shelf equipment and just software modifications, then I won't accept it until I see it demonstrated.


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: InsultingLizard] * 2
    #27613155 - 01/09/22 03:48 PM (2 years, 18 days ago)

:melt:


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Invisiblekreg
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #27613160 - 01/09/22 03:51 PM (2 years, 18 days ago)

May sound absurd but Id like to point out it would be very unconstitutional and illegal for law enforcenent or anyone really to just scan buildings for people, for lack of better words. Furthermore, you know about children, right? What youre implying would mean law enforcement potentially viewing naked children illegally, there is no investigation that makes that ok. I imagine even in CP investigations those guys wish they could rip their own eyes out. The only type of group that could do something like this would have to be a white hat group of advanced tech criminals trying to aid the alphabet boys. And on that note, such an organization could only be funded via black budget because of the illegal nature of their business and then because of that, none of anything they find would be valid for court of law. Evidence obtained illegally is void.


Edited by kreg (01/09/22 03:56 PM)


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OfflineInsultingLizard
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: kreg]
    #27613220 - 01/09/22 04:59 PM (2 years, 18 days ago)

Ignoring the tinfoil-hat-worthy hypothesis of radar-capable APs, what article of the constitution would be violated by using a device such as the one MIT is experimenting with? The operator would just be sitting outside, sending EM radiation at a building and recording what comes back. That's no different from, say, taking a flash photograph. Besides, LEO in the US are already allowed to look through uncovered windows without a warrant, and anything they see by that method is admissible as evidence (at least to get an actual warrant). IMO that's much more invasive than merely trying to determine how many people are in a building and where they are.

Quote:

Furthermore, you know about children, right? What youre implying would mean law enforcement potentially viewing naked children



Well, it would be possible to see at best the silhouettes of naked children. Probably more like a blobby shape that could only be distinguished from an adult by its relative size.


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Invisiblekreg
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: InsultingLizard]
    #27613264 - 01/09/22 06:07 PM (2 years, 18 days ago)

Just use your mind's eye and play the scenes youve drawn here in your head a little bit. You're saying there are LEOs inadvertently watching minors on the toilet wiping their ass. Or is that a heroin kingpin creating a little deadly drug pack to hand out to a customer!? Better zoom in and enhance!


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