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Kryptos
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: InsultingLizard]
#27390435 - 07/16/21 02:27 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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There's huge marketing potential in identifying and tracking people across devices.
Think about personalized ads: they work way better than regular advertising, because they advertise things that you might actually buy. Right now, personalized ads are only completely reliable on your device, but what if you're using a public device? Or a friend's device? Ideally, you'd want to be able to identify a user as soon as you possibly can, so that you can load the proper advertising profile to make them more likely to spend money.
And you can do this entirely based on how a user interacts with their device, too: distinctive mouse movements, typing styles and cadence, etc.
I know there are lots of highly paid people building algorithms that can do this. Matter of fact, I think google once said it could identify a user within like, five minutes of them connecting to the internet?
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InsultingLizard
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: Kryptos]
#27390489 - 07/16/21 03:17 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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personalized ads
That's not unstructured data, though. Ad personalization relies on basically two things: keeping track of the same user across requests, and keeping track of which pages that user visits. That's extremely structured.
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And you can do this entirely based on how a user interacts with their device, too: distinctive mouse movements, typing styles and cadence, etc.
To believe that, one would have to believe a) a single user does those things consistently enough, and b) different users do them differently enough. I don't necessarily buy it even for gait recognition in CCTV.
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I know there are lots of highly paid people building algorithms that can do this.
I wish I could get paid to design algorithms that it's difficult to tell if they're working correctly or not. That's a great scam those engineers have going. I'm honestly jealous. (If you had a way to correctly identify people by their behavior alone you would not need an algorithm to do it, so if your algorithm says two requests are from the same user, how can you tell that's really the case?)
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I think google once said it could identify a user within like, five minutes of them connecting to the internet?
Maybe. I would have to see the context. Either way, Google is an advertising company. It's in their best interest to convince their customers (people wishing to advertise products or services) that they can track even anonymous users even if they can't. It's not like anyone is in any position to verify their claims.
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Kryptos
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: InsultingLizard] 1
#27392758 - 07/18/21 05:48 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was just using it as one example. Perhaps it was a bad example, I'm not very computer-savvy.
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InsultingLizard said:
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And you can do this entirely based on how a user interacts with their device, too: distinctive mouse movements, typing styles and cadence, etc.
To believe that, one would have to believe a) a single user does those things consistently enough, and b) different users do them differently enough. I don't necessarily buy it even for gait recognition in CCTV.
This, I think, is believable. It's like handwriting, but with mice.
The problem with gait recognition is that gait has too many variables attached: Different shoes, different gait. Different clothes, different gait.
You interact with your mouse pretty directly. Your basic hand motions aren't going to change significantly, unless you start wearing varied and decently heavy hand/arm jewelry on a daily basis.
Anecdotally, I can identify several of my coworkers based on the sound of the keys while they type. Most people have a pretty distinctive typing cadence.
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InsultingLizard
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: Kryptos]
#27393029 - 07/18/21 09:30 PM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's like handwriting, but with mice.
Handwriting is about instructing your fingers to move in specific patterns in order to draw repeating symbols. Mouse operation is subject to much less regularity, unless you perform the exact same action dozens of times. For example, clicking every checkbox in a dialog and then clicking OK. It's actually the opposite, gait is much more likely to be consistent than mouse usage.
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Anecdotally, I can identify several of my coworkers based on the sound of the keys while they type. Most people have a pretty distinctive typing cadence.
Typing is more similar to handwriting than mouse usage is, because you learn to type words. You're not thinking with each keystroke how to move your fingers from each key to the next. That's why certain common words can be faster to type than other shorter, more unusual words. Yeah, it may be possible to distinguish a group of ten or so people by their typing, but a thousand or more? I would need to see evidence to that effect.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: InsultingLizard] 2
#27397521 - 07/22/21 05:12 AM (2 years, 6 months ago) |
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People grow and sell weed, shrooms and much more on Facebook, Instagram and Whatsapp and probably a lot of other places too. Because LEO doesn't give a shit about it. Those people get caught from dumb shit they do off-line anyway.
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bagga
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: InsultingLizard]
#27422253 - 08/10/21 08:18 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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This has been the law enforcement holy grail, they've been working towards this since at least 9/11 and given how much easier it's become, it's quite reasonable to presume they have something like this. Probably very limited in scope though.
Clearview is a techtard example of how simple this can be. Natural language processing is harder than images, but quite attainable if they were able to buy the expertise.
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InsultingLizard
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: bagga] 1
#27422420 - 08/10/21 10:33 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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bagga said: This has been the law enforcement holy grail, they've been working towards this since at least 9/11 and given how much easier it's become, it's quite reasonable to presume they have something like this. Probably very limited in scope though.
Sorry, but what has become easier? What are we talking about specifically? Extracting structured data from unstructured data? What makes you think that has gotten any easier?
Look, I get that people are doing stuff with ML nowadays that seem like magic, and that to a layperson it can feel as if there's algorithms to do anything. I mean, if an algorithm can do one one thing you previously thought impossible, surely anything you think is impossible is within reach, right? ML is applicable and useful in only specific sets of circumstances, and even then there's often non-AI solutions that end up being more practical, for various reasons. AI is currently in its summer phase, where it's receiving a lot of funding and interest. Once the limitations and capabilities of ML become well-understood, and when unreasonable expectations of improvements fail to pan out, as they inevitably do, we'll swing back to winter as has happened several times before.
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bagga
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: InsultingLizard] 2
#27423199 - 08/10/21 07:13 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't work in law enforcement obviously, but I do work in AI. What was science fiction 10 years ago, a script kiddy and $10 worth of cloud credits can do today.
There has been an several orders of magnitude improvement in the ability to aggregate and interpret unstructured data. Ingesting, indexing, and building relationship graphs on petabytes of near real time data is table stakes. AI makes it possible to organize and interpret - build profiles.
Tooling is out there, and there are companies like Palantir do this as guns for hire.
The problem is not a technical one. China has no problems monitoring all internet activity in near real time and building social scores for a billion people. US cyber capability easily surpasses that.
The question is who is motivated to do what with the tech available. That's why I say scope is likely to be limited in scope - likely to national priorities like terrorism and cartels.
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InsultingLizard
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: bagga]
#27423446 - 08/10/21 10:01 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't know. Like I said before, how would you measure the effectiveness of such a system? You can manually scrutinize reported positives to see if they're true or false, but you can't possibly know how many false negatives you're missing, because if you could you wouldn't need the system to begin with. So if I was in the business of scamming government agencies I'd do something very rudimentary (e.g. a keyword search) that gave a few very definite positives and as few false positives as possible, and then talk it up as much as I thought I could get away with. To be sure, that still requires a ton of compute, but it's nothing very sophisticated in terms of software.
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That's why I say scope is likely to be limited in scope - likely to national priorities like terrorism and cartels.
Oh, in that case I'm convinced. There's definitely no more terrorism or illegal drug trafficking.
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ONE OZ SLUG
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: InsultingLizard]
#27423476 - 08/10/21 10:29 PM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yea federal agencies aren't going to hold meetings and spend resources busting somebody's PF cakes. Granted if they were to receive a reliable tip on a grow, sure they'll bust somebody.
The site does a very, very good job on keeping illicit trade out of the site. Because the quickest way to land people in jail and get the site taken down is people peddling their shit on this site. An information site becomes a darknet (clearnet really) site when people use it to sell drugs. This is not the case and that is why shroomery has been going on for 24 years solid. Time is better spent taking down meth labs, not some dorky 19 year old's PF cakes.
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: ONE OZ SLUG]
#27423729 - 08/11/21 06:15 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Forums are under 0 lea surveillance
They don't give a shit
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l e a r n i n g t h i n g s
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: RenegadeMycologist] 2
#27423766 - 08/11/21 07:06 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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The nsa can't even curtail all the child/human trafficking and domestic terror threats. They give a fuck about the shroomery. People post drugs for sale on Facebook. People post their grow op on Facebook. They have lower hanging fruits of they ever wanted
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koods
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
#27428770 - 08/15/21 05:57 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sugabearcrisp said:
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Crispy224 said: You would have to be arrested for some sort of drug crime, or cyber crime for them to get a warrant for your phone. If you get a random dui, or something like assault they aren’t going to be trying to gain access to your phone.
You are 100% wrong, if you get arrested by a competent police department they will take your phone and ask a judge for a warrant based on probable cause that the phone contains evidence related to the crime. The supreme court has found that they do not need a warrant to seize your phone and hold it while they attempt to attain a warrant due to the potential of evidence destruction. They can hold it for at least several days during which time they are allowed to take steps to preserve the evidence such as disabling automatic locking and encryption and placing the phone in Faraday cages to prevent remote wiping. I know a few people who have gotten DUI and they all had their phone taken and legally searched. A member here in the uk was involved in a fatal car accident and had his phone seized, posted here that he was worried about drug evidence on there and that was his last post.
Just FYI they cannot compel you to give them your password, this is a violation of the 5th amendment right to not self incriminate. They can compel you to unlock your phone with a fingerprint or facial recognition. Because of this, iPhones require you to enter a ten digit password to get back into your phone if you turn it off. This passcode is nearly impossible for a police department to hack. Unless you are involved in some serious serious shit, they will likely not waste their time and money trying to get into the phone and apple is pretty good about not complying with requests to break into a phone for law enforcement.
If you have an iPhone and you turn it off before the police seize it, you probably won’t have any problem with it being searched.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
#27428774 - 08/15/21 06:04 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sugabearcrisp said:
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anon said Well that's fucking eerie lmao
Yeah unfortunately not funny, dude is probably in jail.
People should also realize that police are going after phones and judges are issuing warrants to search phones for suspicion of distracted driving when someone is involved in an auto accident.
At least in the US, if they are looking for evidence of distracted driving then that search is going to be limited to only recent activity. They aren’t going to be able to scroll through everything
Like I said, if you have a phone that requires a password to unlock, a warrant will be meaningless as they will not be able to unlock it.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Sugabearcrisp
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: koods]
#27428778 - 08/15/21 06:16 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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koods said ...you have an iPhone and you turn it off before the police seize it, you probably won’t have any problem with it being searched.
Wrong. They have the been shown to have bought the software across the country.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/vbxxxd/unlock-iphone-ios11-graykey-grayshift-police
Remember they only need a warrant if they plan to use it in court. Gathering your contacts and texts for social network analysis and tracking purposes can be done.
Funny how you pick my posts to dispute koods, are you now propolice state or just trying to flame me?
Either way I plan to take this to our ask a lawyer thread and will post the response.
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The Thing
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
#27428791 - 08/15/21 06:34 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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With all due respect SBC, that aricle is 3 and a half years old. My ios is currently 14.something waay past ios 11.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
#27428802 - 08/15/21 06:50 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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A 10 digit passcode, the maximum allowed, requires the Graykey an average of 4629 days to unlock
Lol
13 years
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (08/15/21 06:54 AM)
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bodhisatta 
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: koods]
#27428822 - 08/15/21 07:10 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sugar would look a lot less silly if he read what he posted
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Sugabearcrisp
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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: koods]
#27428826 - 08/15/21 07:12 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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That is if you turn it off, you going to risk getting shot by a cop to try and turn your phone off?
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Sugabearcrisp
Not Your Average Bear



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Re: How Much LEO Surveillance do You Think the Forums Are Under? [Re: The Thing]
#27428945 - 08/15/21 09:23 AM (2 years, 5 months ago) |
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bodhisatta said: Sugar would look a lot less silly if he read what he posted 
Still butthurt about being proven wrong about a. muscara I see.
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The Thing said: With all due respect SBC, that aricle is 3 and a half years old. My ios is currently 14.something waay past ios 11.
Technology only accelerates in capability and spread of use.
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