Home | Community | Message Board


Cannabis Seeds UK
Please support our sponsors.

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Hunting and Identification

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Amazon Microscope

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
Offlinevelho
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 665
Loc: Finland Flag
Last seen: 8 hours, 42 minutes
Black spored lawn Panaeolus / Finland
    #27317293 - 05/21/21 10:42 AM (22 days, 12 hours ago)

Thought to share this as it seems interesting enough for me. I found this same species last year and this year they appeared on the same exact spot in my yard. I tentatively identified them as Panaeolus fimicola and it could be, but probably needs a closer look to be sure.



The odor is really similiar to Panaeolus cinctulus, but it's like two months too early for P. cinctulus in my whereabouts and I've handled cincts quite a bit, so I find it unlikely to be them. These are rather small, like 1-1.5cm cap diameter. Feels sort of rubbery and sturdy like P. cinctulus. I found several similiar looking observations on the nordic observation websites, identified as Panaeolus fimicola.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRenegadeMycologist
Eurolord
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/05/20
Posts: 1,480
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 7 hours, 30 seconds
Re: Black spored lawn Panaeolus / Finland [Re: velho]
    #27317353 - 05/21/21 12:14 PM (22 days, 10 hours ago)

If I am to guess I'd say cinctulus or fimicola.
I think we can make this thread 10 pages long and still be left without answer.
Endless comparing of black and brown does not work, technology does.

Without aid of microscopy or dna sequencing we could only speculate which species, or species group this might be. Features in close species constantly overlap, and there is probably shitload of undesribed Pans.

One way at least to distinguish Paneolous actives is to eat them.


--------------------
:mushroom2:  l e a r n i n g  t h i n g s :mushroom2:


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDoc9151M
Mycologist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 12,911
Loc: Gulf Coast USA Flag
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Trusted Identifier
Re: Black spored lawn Panaeolus / Finland [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #27317501 - 05/21/21 02:26 PM (22 days, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

RenegadeMycologist said:
If I am to guess I'd say cinctulus or fimicola.
I think we can make this thread 10 pages long and still be left without answer.
Endless comparing of black and brown does not work, technology does.

Without aid of microscopy or dna sequencing we could only speculate which species, or species group this might be. Features in close species constantly overlap, and there is probably shitload of undesribed Pans.

One way at least to distinguish Paneolous actives is to eat them.



I Agree, they could also be an undescribed species. I call it Panaeolus cinctulus group


--------------------


Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
Male User Gallery
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 46,611
Last seen: 1 day, 21 hours
Trusted Identifier
Re: Black spored lawn Panaeolus / Finland [Re: velho]
    #27317779 - 05/21/21 06:41 PM (22 days, 4 hours ago)

Panaeolus fimicola is likely - if you have a microscope check for sulphidia on the gill faces. 

Also send a dried cap to http://alvalab.es for ITS sequencing, I'll help you analyze the data they give you.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinekiwicase
Stranger
Male
Registered: 05/31/21
Posts: 1
Loc: Finland
Last seen: 8 days, 9 hours
Re: Black spored lawn Panaeolus / Finland [Re: velho]
    #27334723 - 06/04/21 05:44 AM (8 days, 17 hours ago)

Hi there! First time poster so please be gentle :grin: I am interested in doing some hunting myself but I have absolutely no idea about seasons or where to find them - I reside in the Uusimaa region in the second oldest town in Finland - if anyone could point me in the right direction that would be hugely appreciated. Thank you!


--------------------
“When we look within ourselves with psilocybin, we discover that we do not have to look outward toward the futile promise of life that circles distant stars in order to still our cosmic loneliness. We should look within; the paths of the heart lead to nearby universes full of life and affection for humanity.”
― Terence McKenna, True Hallucinations


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineknarkkorven
Entheoholic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 1,615
Loc: Sweden Flag
Last seen: 5 days, 6 hours
Re: Black spored lawn Panaeolus / Finland [Re: kiwicase]
    #27338976 - 06/07/21 03:55 PM (5 days, 7 hours ago)

Nice find velho.

I agree with Panaeolus fimicola.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDoc9151M
Mycologist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 12,911
Loc: Gulf Coast USA Flag
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Trusted Identifier
Re: Black spored lawn Panaeolus / Finland [Re: knarkkorven]
    #27343122 - 06/10/21 03:15 PM (2 days, 7 hours ago)

It would be nice to see more sequencing of the Panaeolus cinctulus group.  I could be wrong,  but I suspect that subbalteatus aka cinctulus and fimicola may be one in the same, but I can't prove my hypothesis without detailed macro/microscopic analysis and sequencing to back it up, the current available sequences in GenBank aren't enough (also my opinion) and possibly contain misidentified species labeled as cinctulus,  fimicola,
olivaceus and foenisecii.

Would love to hear your opinion on this Alan. Do you agree that more work is needed to settle this? It could also possibly help determine if olivaceus actually occurs in North America or if it's European in distribution. How many sequences were named in GenBank without performing detailed Macro/microscopic analysis? This is a question that must be answered in my opinion in order to build an accurate data base or am I discounting the ability of DNA alone to answer these questions?


--------------------


Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinevelho
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 665
Loc: Finland Flag
Last seen: 8 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Black spored lawn Panaeolus / Finland [Re: Doc9151]
    #27343231 - 06/10/21 04:42 PM (2 days, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

knarkkorven said:
Nice find velho.

I agree with Panaeolus fimicola.



Hey knarkkorven and thanks! Nice to see you around! :hatsoff:

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
It would be nice to see more sequencing of the Panaeolus cinctulus group.  I could be wrong,  but I suspect that subbalteatus aka cinctulus and fimicola may be one in the same, but I can't prove my hypothesis without detailed macro/microscopic analysis and sequencing to back it up, the current available sequences in GenBank aren't enough (also my opinion) and possibly contain misidentified species labeled as cinctulus,  fimicola,
olivaceus and foenisecii.



I found about 50 specimens and I'll be sending this species to alvalab for sequencing at some point, among some other black spored Panaeolus species that appears on my yard every year and which I assume belonging to cinctulus group. I'm also sending Pholiotina cyanopus, Psilocybe medullosa and a couple of macroscopically a bit different looking Psilocybe semilanceata perhaps also.

A heatwave hit here hard now and everything dried up, but there has been quite many observations in Finland this year of likely the same Panaeolus species as in the original post. I also showed these photos to some members on the Finnish psilocybe forums and a couple of members found this species instantly. I went also looking for these with one of the Finnish forum members and we took some habitat photos, which hopefully will be uploaded here later. This species seem to like pretty dry and sunny habitats.

Here's some photos of a bit different looking black spored Panaeolus species from my yard, these photos are from 2019 and 2020. They look different from the original post find, but I think they also look somewhat different from each other.

1. 2. 3.


Edited by velho (06/10/21 04:50 PM)


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDoc9151M
Mycologist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 12,911
Loc: Gulf Coast USA Flag
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Trusted Identifier
Re: Black spored lawn Panaeolus / Finland [Re: velho]
    #27343259 - 06/10/21 05:07 PM (2 days, 6 hours ago)

The mushie in the first picture,  right side,  looks like it has two tiny eyes, love it!!!


--------------------


Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
Male User Gallery
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 46,611
Last seen: 1 day, 21 hours
Trusted Identifier
Re: Black spored lawn Panaeolus / Finland [Re: Doc9151]
    #27343574 - 06/10/21 09:45 PM (2 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

Doc9151 said:
It would be nice to see more sequencing of the Panaeolus cinctulus group.  I could be wrong,  but I suspect that subbalteatus aka cinctulus and fimicola may be one in the same, but I can't prove my hypothesis without detailed macro/microscopic analysis and sequencing to back it up, the current available sequences in GenBank aren't enough (also my opinion) and possibly contain misidentified species labeled as cinctulus,  fimicola,
olivaceus and foenisecii.

Would love to hear your opinion on this Alan. Do you agree that more work is needed to settle this? It could also possibly help determine if olivaceus actually occurs in North America or if it's European in distribution. How many sequences were named in GenBank without performing detailed Macro/microscopic analysis? This is a question that must be answered in my opinion in order to build an accurate data base or am I discounting the ability of DNA alone to answer these questions?





Panaeolus cinctulus and fimicola are definitely different, and they both have sequences available.  I need a sequence of Panaeolus olivaceus from Europe, verified with microscopy to see where that one occurs.  A lot of the Panaeolus sequences in Genbank are mislabeled.

Panaeolus cinctulus:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/1419337782
Panaeolus fimicola: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/MK394183


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
Male User Gallery
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 46,611
Last seen: 1 day, 21 hours
Trusted Identifier
Re: Black spored lawn Panaeolus / Finland [Re: velho]
    #27343578 - 06/10/21 09:47 PM (2 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

velho said:
I found about 50 specimens and I'll be sending this species to alvalab for sequencing at some point, among some other black spored Panaeolus species that appears on my yard every year and which I assume belonging to cinctulus group. I'm also sending Pholiotina cyanopus, Psilocybe medullosa and a couple of macroscopically a bit different looking Psilocybe semilanceata perhaps also.





If you can send me a small collection of Pholiotina cyanopus and Psilocybe medullosa I would be happy to sequence a few genes.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinethe man
still tappin caps
Trans-male User Gallery


Registered: 08/13/99
Posts: 5,351
Loc: C A N A D A
Last seen: 6 hours, 25 minutes
Re: Black spored lawn Panaeolus / Finland [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #27343701 - 06/11/21 12:05 AM (1 day, 23 hours ago)

EDIT*

is #2 potentially Panaeolus olivaceus?  alan pointed out most u see online are mis IDd(*so in limited time looking never know if actually is a pan olive to compare), looks bit more olive and slightly dif edge to the cap...? or what potentially seperates them?

Also, about sunny habitat, i think your right! cincts love heat, maybe part of a distant evolution with other active but tropical pans... maybe lol..


Edited by the man (06/11/21 05:10 PM)


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
Male User Gallery
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 46,611
Last seen: 1 day, 21 hours
Trusted Identifier
Re: Black spored lawn Panaeolus / Finland [Re: the man]
    #27343762 - 06/11/21 01:42 AM (1 day, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

the man said:
is #2 potentially Panaeolus olivaceus?  alan pointed out most u see online are mis IDd, looks bit more olive and slightly dif edge to the cap...? or what potentially seperates them?





Maybe.  Panaeolus olivaceus has spores that are finely asperulate, and are olive in color when immature.  It is only known from Europe according to Gerhardt 1996. 


https://images.mushroomobserver.org/panaeolus.pdf


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinevelho
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 665
Loc: Finland Flag
Last seen: 8 hours, 42 minutes
Re: Black spored lawn Panaeolus / Finland [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #27345137 - 06/12/21 06:48 AM (16 hours, 23 minutes ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
If you can send me a small collection of Pholiotina cyanopus and Psilocybe medullosa I would be happy to sequence a few genes.



Sure, but you might want to wait a couple of months so I can collect and prepare new more pristine collections for you and perhaps from different stages of maturity if you will. I haven't really collected Psilocybe medullosa after 2018, only observed and photographed. It's probably more or atleast as common species than Psilocybe semilanceata in here, considering Finland is almost 80% covered in forest.

Here's some more photos of the assumed Panaeolus fimicola and a couple of habitat photos from the excursion we took two weeks ago with another member of the Finnish psilocybin mushroom forums. First couple of photos are from my yard and the rest 500-1000m away from the original finds.



Habitats



Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Amazon Microscope

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Hunting and Identification

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* black spore prints....
( 1 2 all )
anotherdirtywop 18,485 26 11/02/17 11:36 AM
by Doc9151
* Are any black spored, gilled,dung shrooms poison? QuitDrinking 2,947 4 09/17/02 02:12 AM
by Anonymous
* Pics of some kinda black-spored mushroom(s)
( 1 2 all )
doo 4,937 23 05/16/04 06:19 PM
by Anonymous
* what mushrooms have black spore prints Dobie 6,751 5 09/01/02 09:41 AM
by GSAfarmer
* poisonous black spored mushrooms Rashiki 3,619 1 06/06/01 10:53 PM
by Mitchnast
* Spore Results: P. castaneifolius and subbalteatus PICS!
( 1 2 all )
Anonymous 4,318 27 09/04/02 03:26 PM
by Anonymous
* BC lawn shrooms (pics) Just a Punk 2,842 6 07/24/01 09:19 AM
by Anonymous
* Nomad & GGreatOne's Lawn-Shroom Hunt 6-15 (Pics) GGreatOne234 2,512 13 06/16/03 11:39 PM
by MagmaManiac

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: ToxicMan, karode13, inski, Alan Rockefeller, Duggstar, TimmiT, Anglerfish, Tmethyl, Lucis, Doc9151
505 topic views. 7 members, 28 guests and 32 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic | ]
Search this thread:
Cannabis Seeds - Original Sensible Seeds
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.026 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 13 queries.