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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Farm subsidies
    #2731603 - 05/26/04 11:39 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Farm subsidies are the largest corporate welfare program there is and have many pernicious consequences. They should be rapidly and completely phased out over the next few years.

Farm subsidies go primarily to large corporations and rich landowners; small farmers are hurt by these subsidies because they drive up the price of land and make crops grown by large businesses cheaper. They are one of the largest, if not the largest, barriers to free trade as they artificially depress the prices of US (and European) crops and hurt third-world competitors.
The only utilitarian argument in favor of keeping farm subsidies in place is that we will need to have agriculture in place in case of a war; this is ridiculous as we export large quantities of food and don't use all available farmland.
Our agriculture is not dependent on farm subsidies; the beneficiaries of this multi-billion dollar program are large businesses and the rich; taxpayers, small farmers, and free trade pay the price.

To learn more:
EWG farm subsidy FAQ

Haritage Foundation on Farm Subsidies

Cato Institute on Farm Subsidies


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Farm subsidies [Re: phi1618]
    #2731675 - 05/26/04 12:05 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

the beneficiaries of this multi-billion dollar program are large businesses and the rich;

It's gonna be awful tough cutting their welfare then. If only they were single moms or they only had $50 in the bank you'd have a chance.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Farm subsidies [Re: phi1618]
    #2731680 - 05/26/04 12:06 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Corporate welfare should be the first government program to be abolished.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Farm subsidies [Re: silversoul7]
    #2731688 - 05/26/04 12:08 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

We can all dream silver.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: Farm subsidies [Re: silversoul7]
    #2731842 - 05/26/04 01:15 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Corporate welfare should be the first government program to be abolished.




There are a few libertarians out there who actually go so far as to say that the laws of incorporation are themselves un-libertarian.

From this link:

Corporations are pure-bred progeny of Leviathan. You can't have one without the other. No libertarian principle can pretend to excuse their existence. Nothing from the lexicon of liberty can be said in defense of the corporate concept. Nevertheless, libertarians across the land are locked in conjugal bliss with these jackanapes. To paraphrase the wisdom of a man called Jesus, "Nothing can come from corn but corn, nothing from nettles but nettles." Freedom cannot spring from the groin of Leviathan or its scion, nor from libertarians wed to corporations.

One absolutely inescapable prerequisite of a libertarian society is people who are willing to accept responsibility for themselves and their actions. The fundamental raison d'etre of incorporation is to avoid responsibility. A corporation shields its owners (stockholders) from responsibility (vis., liability) for the corporation's actions by means of a legal fiction imposed and enforced by Leviathan. It is so contrary to libertarian purpose and principles as to assure that no libertarian society can emerge from a corporate culture.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Farm subsidies [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2731851 - 05/26/04 01:17 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

That does it - I'm a libertarian  :laugh:


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: Farm subsidies [Re: Xlea321]
    #2731873 - 05/26/04 01:25 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
That does it - I'm a libertarian  :laugh:




My God, what have I done? :lol:

Seriously though, the author of that article is somebody I'd like to talk with.  I'd probably be ten times more open to the idea of libertarianism if that were part of the package.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 22,840
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Re: Farm subsidies [Re: Xlea321]
    #2732113 - 05/26/04 02:30 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

The WTO is against farm subsidies.


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Farm subsidies [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2732506 - 05/26/04 03:44 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

You make it sound like EVERY inc is bad. Many small to moderately sized family farms are incorporated (such as my own family, my father and uncle farm together). They are not incorporated to "to avoid responsibility", they are incorporated to protect their assets. All of the family farm land, houses, vehicles including farm machinery are owned by the inc. I guess the point I'm trying to make is a lot of small businesses become incorporated without there having to be anything sinister behind it.

Maybe we should just turn the world into one huge co-op.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Farm subsidies [Re: EchoVortex]
    #2732526 - 05/26/04 03:50 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbup: That's the kind of thinking we need more of.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflinepB0t
Generic Shroomery Member
Male

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 2,556
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: Farm subsidies [Re: phi1618]
    #2734850 - 05/27/04 01:47 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I also think corporate welfare is harmful, and uncapitalistic.

I like what EchoVortex posted. A society of individual rights must not ignore individual responsibility.


--------------------

5-MeOW-DMT

yageman said:
Dumb kids shouldnt even worry about trying salvia.

Dumb adults might want to give it a shot though.


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Farm subsidies [Re: pB0t]
    #2737488 - 05/27/04 05:40 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

afoaf recomended James Bouvard to me.

Although I havn't made it to the library yet, I did find an informative essay online. This essay is from 1995, but I think most of the information is still pertinant - the biggest change in farm-subsidy land since then has been a drastic increase in spending - in 1998.

https://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv18n3/reg18n3-bovard.html


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