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OfflineKalypto
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Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ?
    #27305426 - 05/12/21 08:54 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I hear cubes for example have a temperature range of 68-75 degrees

Is it more beneficial to run your room at 68 where it’s colder ?

I had a couple thoughts regarding this . First if I’m not mistaken all spawn has bacteria in it since we can’t 100% sterilize our grain so my understanding is we want to create an environment where mycelium can grow faster and take hold of the spawn before bacteria can take root

Another thought is that from my understanding bacteria has a harder time at lower temperatures and lower temperatures in the room would make it harder for the bacteria to grab hold before the mycelium

While on the forum I have seen some opinion stating that warmer is better though

From what I’ve read the idea is that mycelium performs better at the higher end of the temperature range because mycelium gains more of a “growth advantage “ at higher temperatures

So do we have any conclusive data as to which is better ? And if not does anyone have any anecdotal data to suggest one or the other ?

Currently I’m keeping my place at 70 but I’d like to keep it at like 75-77

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InvisibleSir Pentinite
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: Kalypto]
    #27305581 - 05/12/21 10:44 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Most of the question is how fast you want them to grow. That's really the main difference assuming the spawn is clean, which it should be.

Warmer temps make everything grow faster, including the things you don't want. That's not much of a problem, again, when the spawn is clean. It just reveals latent problems sooner and more readily.


--------------------
"I thought to myself 'Boy, I'm sure glad there's nobody here to see this because this is exactly the sort of thing that gets people riled-up and they assume you're dying and that something has to be done. Where if you're alone, you know, you either come through it or you die, but in any case you avoid the fuss.'"
- Terrence McKenna

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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: Sir Pentinite]
    #27305589 - 05/12/21 10:53 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Well the thing is our spawn is never 100% clean because pressure cooking doesnt 100% sterilize spawn . So my questions is knowing that , is it better to go colder or hotter

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InvisibleAlchemycologist
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: Kalypto] * 1
    #27305598 - 05/12/21 10:58 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Pressure cookers definitely sterilize spawn completely if you use them right. IDK who told you they don't.

Don't worry too much about temperature for Cubensis. If you're comfy they will be too.


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Yep.

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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: Alchemycologist]
    #27305608 - 05/12/21 11:05 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Well there are numerous heat resistant things that survive the process , its really easy to look up

Plus Id like to think I have a decent amount of experience in this hobby , Ive been doing agar for years and believe I can easily spot bacteria in my plates , which i never get anymore since i have good sterile procedure and a flow hood .  and I pressure cook my bags for 3.5 hours  and still sometimes get bacteria contamination in some of my bags and not others when they used the same petri dish and the bags came from the same Pressure cooker run .

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: Kalypto] * 1
    #27305623 - 05/12/21 11:18 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Shit happens, there will never be a time when your handling of microorganisms is 100% flawless, even the best/most experienced growers deal with contamination. It's going to happen from time to time, so long as it doesn't happen too frequently.

Mycelium will grow faster at higher temps but as mentioned before those higher temps encourage other organisms to incubate as well.

I personally prefer my spawn and tubs to run in a room that stays between 20 and 22c.

You're not going to get some imperical incontrovertible evidence to support either warm or cool temperatures for your grow, you'll have to dial it in yourself through trial and error.

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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27305635 - 05/12/21 11:24 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Ive just been having bacterial problem lately that im trying to curb and I havent been able to find anything that im really doing wrong at this point , so im just trying to do what I can to edge out whatever problem has been causing the contamination .

Not to say that there isnt anything im doing wrong i just dont know what so im trying to eek out an advantage over the bacteria where I can

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: Kalypto]
    #27305638 - 05/12/21 11:26 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Then I would recommend lower temperatures if you're already struggling with bacteria, higher temperatures will only exacerbate the problem.

Though it's true that mycelium grows relatively faster at higher temps, that speed of growth isn't going to exceed the speed at which your existing bacterial infection will multiply when temperatures are favorable.

You don't have a temperature problem, you have a bacteria problem.

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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27305645 - 05/12/21 11:33 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Perfect thats exactly the answer I was looking for thank you

Provided I
Have spawn prep down
do 3.5 hours PC runs
Have clean agar and sterile procedure

Can you think of any reason I might still be seeing bacteria ( those spikey growths and more than just a couple drops of metabolites as well as some yellow on some substrates ).

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OfflineGan
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: Kalypto]
    #27305665 - 05/12/21 11:44 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

3.5 hour PC runs at 15 psi? What are you pc'ing for that long? Bags?


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: Gan]
    #27305668 - 05/12/21 11:49 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

4 - 5 lb spawn bags

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: Kalypto]
    #27305674 - 05/12/21 11:52 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Vent time, its absolutely imperative that you properly vent your pc. I always vent more than the min required time.

I vent my presto for 15 mins. I start the timer after both of the lid plugs are up, and once it actually starts to hiss I start my timer for 15 mins.

I vent my 75x for 20 mins.

If your plate culture is clean and you can successfully transfer that culture to grain without contaminating your grains, properly vent your pc and run it for a sufficient length of time (2 hours for jars, 3.5-4 hours for bags); your spawn will be good to go.

Also check your jar lids, make sure that your bags don't have pin holes etc. If all of that is gtg then there shouldn't be a problem.

People have been using their grain prep buckets for coir which can potentially contaminate your substrate even if your spawn is clean, so make sure to pay close attention to everything that you're doing.

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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: Kalypto]
    #27305679 - 05/12/21 11:57 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Bacteria isn't always obvious on agar plates. Sometimes it's sneaky. Otherwise you could be transferring via your scalpel but that's easily dealt with by properly flaming it. You could also potentially be introducing it via your hands while opening and sealing the bags.

I've heard of grain that was impossible to grow on but never run into it myself. So.... That's an option too.

I PC bags crammed in for 3 hours. PSI ranges from 15 to 28 during the cook.

I keep fruiting at 72 degrees.

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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27305684 - 05/12/21 12:00 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I only vent for about 2-3 minutes of full steam ,  Ill up that time .

Then I run it for 3.5 hours , should i do 4 ? i do 4 bags that are 5 lbs stacked top layer perpendicular to the bottom layer

And I just use bags that I seal with a impulse sealer , open the PC up in from of the hood still wipe them down with alcohol .

My substrate is pasteurized in large bags so no cross contamination there

Flame sterilize with a torch between every transfer

alcohol my gloves regularly and never touch the inside of the bag

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #27305690 - 05/12/21 12:03 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Perhaps elevation?

There's soo many possible vectors or potential procedural shortcomings that could be responsible that its almost impossible to list them all. The best advice is to educate yourself as much as possible, get all of the hands on that you can and approach the problem thoughtfully and methodically.

That 3 min vent could very well be the issue, there is absolutely no way that your pc is reaching sterilization temps. You're not actually sterilizing your grain.

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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27305695 - 05/12/21 12:06 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Perhaps elevation?

There's soo many possible vectors or potential procedural shortcomings that could be responsible that its almost impossible to list them all. The best advice is to educate yourself as much as possible, get all of the hands on that you can and approach the problem thoughtfully and methodically.

That 3 min vent could very well be the issue, there is absolutely no way that your pc is reaching sterilization temps. You're not actually sterilizing your grain.




Yeah im normally pretty good at identifying my problem and being able to research a problem for it


Ill try venting the PC more and running it for longer , see what tests I can do to verify my agar is clean ,
I guess its possible my whole spore syringe was contaminated with some bacteria this isnt really visible i guess  and start some clones to test as a secondary source

Edited by Kalypto (05/12/21 12:08 PM)

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: Kalypto]
    #27305699 - 05/12/21 12:08 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

If you're venting for 3 mins you don't have sterile grains.

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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27305703 - 05/12/21 12:10 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
If you're venting for 3 mins you don't have sterile grains.





coulda swore I saw a post where RR said it only takes a couple minutes but ill def up it and see what happens

Honestly for years I never knew I had to vent and didnt have problems running my bags for only 3 hours none the less this grain is from a different supplier and may be worse in some way

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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: Kalypto]
    #27305705 - 05/12/21 12:14 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Well I'm 100% certain that this is your primary issue, it may not be your only issue but it is most certainly a major one.

Bod ran a test with a temp gauge in his pc and logged different internal temps at different vent times. If you don't vent for at least 10 straight minutes you haven't evacuated all of the cool air pockets from your pc. Your internal temps will not read accurately on your pressure guage and you WILL have bacteria.

This is certain.

When I first started growing I did the same thing, I didn't recognize the necessity of proper vwnting and farmed bacteria like a champ.

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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Is it better to be at the top bottom or middle of a strains temperature range ? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27305708 - 05/12/21 12:17 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Well no doubt ill do it for 15 minutes like you do from now on , should i adjust my water level for this amount of venting ? and do you run it or your stove on high temperature during this period ?

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