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Offlinemr_meeseeks
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Why won't my king oyster caps get any bigger?
    #27293560 - 05/04/21 10:36 AM (2 months, 22 days ago)

I got some Pleurotus Eryngii grain spawn from what I think is an reputable online source (not sure if I'm allowed to say where or if it really even matters). I'm definitely a noob and just recently got several flushes of pioppinos to grow pretty well, so I thought I'd try my hand at something a little hard and settled on king oysters. The substrate I made is supplemented sawdust from oak pellets and wheat bran. I also applied a casing layer made from a 50/50 mix of peat moss and vermiculite plus a little bit of hydrated lime. I now know I didn't do the casing layer quite right because I let it go too long and it got a bit over-colonized. I got some good pinning and growth despite that, but I think things seem to be slowing down and the caps don't appear to be making much progress? Either that or I'm just being too impatient. 

4/11 - [Over] colonized casing layer


4/15 - Pins developing


4/28 - Further growth where I scratched a line along the mycelium


4/30 - Noticeable growth, especially in the closer bag


5/4 - Here's what they look like today


The stipes are about 1" - 1.25" in diameter and are turgid. It seems like they grew readily and are now slowing down--it's primarily the caps that don't seem to be getting any bigger. This thread is the most relevant thing I can find: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7428684

It indicates that FAE and light are the biggest culprits for what I'm experiencing. I take the lid off the container and gently fan 4-6 times a day. I try not to fan too hard, so sometimes I also just crack the lid open for 30ish minutes for a more gentle FAE. I was probably also misting too much at first but have since backed off and only spray a very light layer on the walls of the container. When ~80% of that has evaporated away I will repeat. I was under the impression that kings don't like too much moisture, but it seems like when I started spraying less that the stipes became bumpy, or almost wrinkled. It's hard to describe, but you can see it in the most recent photos. I wasn't sure if that was expected or not, but if I saw that on another mushroom species I'd think it was starting to go on it's way out and should be harvested.

The container sits on a shelf in front of an east-facing window. There are also plants in front of the container to block direct sun. Mornings are generally overcast here anyway so the light should be somewhat filtered. They are definitely getting lots of light, but it may not be the best quality. I have a few other similar bags toward the back of the same room and they don't seem to be doing quite as well so I figured the additional light was wanted. Plus, the caps have some color which I think is also a good indicator of low enough CO2? Finally, the room stays at about 20.6C (69F) during the day and drops to about 17.8C (64F) at night.

I think I'm already doing what that other thread suggests for caps, so I'm a little confused as to what I'm doing wrong. Does anybody have good suggestions for what I can be doing better aside from the casing layer which I already know I messed up? Also, when do you know when it's time to harvest kings?


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OfflineFarm3r
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Re: Why won't my king oyster caps get any bigger? [Re: mr_meeseeks]
    #27293565 - 05/04/21 10:43 AM (2 months, 22 days ago)

I didn't read it all.

But considering there is no holes on your tub probably not enough far.

And are they getting direct sunlight? May be too much.

I suggest a sgfc, most dont. Or look into how the company's are selling their grow your ownkitsch, most often they just come with a little bag like thing to put over the top, thay allows a fair amount of air compared to this tub I'm sure.


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Offlinemr_meeseeks
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Re: Why won't my king oyster caps get any bigger? [Re: Farm3r]
    #27293577 - 05/04/21 10:59 AM (2 months, 22 days ago)

So you are saying 4-6 FAEs per day is insufficient?


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OfflineFarm3r
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Re: Why won't my king oyster caps get any bigger? [Re: mr_meeseeks]
    #27293585 - 05/04/21 11:04 AM (2 months, 22 days ago)

Obsolytely. My grow room gets refilled a few time every hour. I haven't done the math honestly. But I have a 16*10*8 room. I round it to 1600. Got two 260cfm fans running constantly, but they have filters over them so it's less. My room is about full tho. Last couple days it's been staying around 850ppm in c02.


I honestly might have to double check cow levels for kings but if it's similar to other oysters they need alot of air, >1000 ppm


Maybe find something that could raise the lid up an inch and see how that goes.  Or expose the corners.There's alot of factors,humidity in the area the tub is, air flow, how much moisture in the perilite. As far as keeping it humid while you introduce more air.


Edited by Farm3r (05/04/21 11:07 AM)


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Offlinesendmehummus
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Re: Why won't my king oyster caps get any bigger? [Re: Farm3r]
    #27294184 - 05/04/21 05:25 PM (2 months, 22 days ago)

Kings do not need those FAE requirements at all. Not nearly as much as blues or other oyster varieties. Kings grow exceptionally well in shotgun fruiting chambers, your problem is you have no hole whatsoever in your tote. Its a legit suffocation chamber. Drill holes 2 inches apart across all sides and top, mist and fan 3-4 times a day and you will have beautiful fruits. Im honestly amazed they even got that big in that chamber! You also dont need a casing layer at all when using high potency supplement like wheat bran or soy hulls. Harvest Kings like any other oyster, right before the caps start inverting. Youll get an eye for it as you go. My first pic below indicates a good harvest time. Second pic indicates slightly too late, but still good you just have to clean up some spore mess.





--------------------
Be patient and keep it simple.


Edited by sendmehummus (05/04/21 05:33 PM)


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Offlinemr_meeseeks
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Re: Why won't my king oyster caps get any bigger? [Re: sendmehummus]
    #27295271 - 05/05/21 10:57 AM (2 months, 21 days ago)

Wow, great info. Thanks so much for your help. I am just slightly confused on one point though. You said that extreme FAE measures weren't required, but then you said I should cut a hole in my container. I assume this is for FAE, so I guess the advice just seems a little conflicting or perhaps I am misunderstanding?

Like I mentioned, I give them a FAE 4-6 times per day (closer to 6 more often than not) and also crack the lid to help a little in between or when I can keep a close eye on them for humidity/moisture. A hole with Poly-fil or a SGFC would undoubtedly have more consistent air exchange, but does that necessarily imply that 4-6 manual exchanges per day is insufficient? The answer to that question may be an obvious "yes, it's insufficient" but I just wanted to make sure since several online guides for kings specifically instruct the approach I'm trying. I guess I'm just trying to confirm that it was misguided advice and I simply need more FAE. Is that was this all boils down to in your opinion? How confident are you that FAE is the primary issue at hand?

Thanks again for all your input!


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Offlinesendmehummus
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Re: Why won't my king oyster caps get any bigger? [Re: mr_meeseeks]
    #27295305 - 05/05/21 11:39 AM (2 months, 21 days ago)

Ok first off. There is a huge difference between FAE levels for Kings vs Other oysters. Compared to other oysters King oysters are NOT extreme. Anything you can grow in a SGFC is not considered to have extreme FAE requirements. So yes my advice still stands, the King requirements are still FARRRRR below other oysters. Second and more importantly there is a glaring difference between constant air/ gas exchange (a sgfc or auto chamber) and simply fanning intermittently a few times a day. In one scenario CO2 and oxygen levels are at a consistent pace being exhanged AND still get flushed by fanning a few times a day. In your scenario the gasses are just building in between times youre fanning. This is your issue. I grow Kings year round so you can take my advice and just drill some holes in your tote or follow the online guide. We all learn from  our own ventures. Good luck with your grow!

edit: Sorry didnt see your last question. To clarify. I am 100% positive that your issue is exactly as Ive stated. You need more FAE. Period. And try to think of fae in terms of consistent and constant exchange rather than just how many times you are fanning a day in a tote with no holes. Mushrooms pick up on minute details such as these and are very sensitive to these parameters.


--------------------
Be patient and keep it simple.


Edited by sendmehummus (05/05/21 11:50 AM)


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Offlinemr_meeseeks
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Re: Why won't my king oyster caps get any bigger? [Re: sendmehummus]
    #27295311 - 05/05/21 11:42 AM (2 months, 21 days ago)

Sounds great. Also please do not take my line of questioning as anything other than me trying to expand my understanding. Wasn't sure if I came off as a skeptical jerk or not. Your explanations help clear things up and I will definitely adjust my course based off of what you told me. Thanks again for your help in input.


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Offlinesendmehummus
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Re: Why won't my king oyster caps get any bigger? [Re: mr_meeseeks]
    #27295706 - 05/05/21 05:35 PM (2 months, 21 days ago)

I want to also clarify, that even though we say Kings "dont need" as much FAE as other oyster varieties, it wouldnt be true if Kings were grown for their caps. The only reason we can get away with less air for Kings is bc their stipes are tender and quite delicious compared to other mushrooms. High CO2 environments create long stipes and small caps. So in the end a King oyster mushroom would really require just the same FAE as any other variety but it just so happens that we WANT energy to go into the stipes and not the caps. It makes them an ideal mush to grow for any indoor small time hobbyist for this reason. You dont need a complicated gas exchange system.

I also just want to say dont expect much of a 2nd yield off the blocks pictured. Just letting you know so you dont think drilling holes and making a sgfc was for nothing. You wont see the difference a proper chamber makes until you colonize some new blocks and try again! And one more word of advice. The sgfc will absolutely NOT work for any other oyster variety unless you enjoy the long chewy stipes for chowders/ soups or mush jerky.


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Be patient and keep it simple.


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OfflineTravelAgency
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Re: Why won't my king oyster caps get any bigger? [Re: sendmehummus]
    #27301071 - 05/09/21 06:11 AM (2 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

sendmehummus said:
I want to also clarify, that even though we say Kings "dont need" as much FAE as other oyster varieties, it wouldnt be true if Kings were grown for their caps. The only reason we can get away with less air for Kings is bc their stipes are tender and quite delicious compared to other mushrooms. High CO2 environments create long stipes and small caps. So in the end a King oyster mushroom would really require just the same FAE as any other variety but it just so happens that we WANT energy to go into the stipes and not the caps. It makes them an ideal mush to grow for any indoor small time hobbyist for this reason. You dont need a complicated gas exchange system.

I also just want to say dont expect much of a 2nd yield off the blocks pictured. Just letting you know so you dont think drilling holes and making a sgfc was for nothing. You wont see the difference a proper chamber makes until you colonize some new blocks and try again! And one more word of advice. The sgfc will absolutely NOT work for any other oyster variety unless you enjoy the long chewy stipes for chowders/ soups or mush jerky.



Brilliantly said mate. I have nothing to add to this except to emphasize that large caps on kings is not what consumers look for on them. Nice to make your acquaintance Hummus.


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Offlinesendmehummus
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Re: Why won't my king oyster caps get any bigger? [Re: TravelAgency]
    #27301127 - 05/09/21 07:25 AM (2 months, 17 days ago)

Likewise! Good for us that consumers "think" thats what a healthy King Oyster looks like. :wink:


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