Home | Community | Message Board

Out-Grow.com - Mushroom Growing Kits & Supplies
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5  [ show all ]
OfflineJailbird420
Old Man
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/20/19
Posts: 297
Last seen: 10 days, 21 hours
Taking a new look at the 2nd
    #27300440 - 05/08/21 04:52 PM (3 years, 11 days ago)

Everyone seems to have this odd idea of what the 2nd Amendment is for. This was done on purpose by weapons manufacturers and given a voice through the NRA.

Quote:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.




This one sentence is talking about the citizens' right to form a well-regulated Militia.

It was designed for the citizens to form a militia to protect the state from invaders.

Since we had no standing army at the time, everyone was expected to participate in the militia.

Well, fast-forward 200 years and we have a standing National Militia, a State Militia, and local militia in the form of police.
You are free to join those if you have the need/desire to play with the big guns.

If you’re not a part of a well-regulated militia, you have no need for any kind of semi-automatic weapon.

Keep all the muskets and muzzleloaders your feeble little frame can carry for all I care.

You do not have a need for a semi-automatic weapon.

As it stands now you can lose your right to arm yourself if the state so chooses.
That proves that, as things are now, gun ownership is a privilege.

Our laws around weapons need a MAJOR overhaul.

Here is my proposal that doesn’t violate the 2nd Amendment in any way:

All citizens can own, with little to no training; bows and cross-bows, muzzleloaders, single-shot shotguns, single-shot bolt-action rifles up to a caliber of ~.306 (the size of this caliber can be debated). The ability to own these weapons cannot be infringed unless you are convicted of a violent criminal offense. (as it stands now anyone convicted of any felony loses their gun rights)

All other weapons (especially semi-automatic ones) should be heavily regulated, and only those well trained to use them should be able to get the needed license to own them. Most people in an active militia can own most of these semi-automatic weapons, but once they are no longer in service they must turn their weapons in.

There are simple, common-sense ways to address our gun laws in the U.S. and still honor the 2nd Amendment.

.
.
.
.
.
.

Prepares for the shit-storm from the Gun nuts about My FreeDumbs

:crankey:

:awedance:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,490
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Jailbird420]
    #27300451 - 05/08/21 05:00 PM (3 years, 11 days ago)

This isn't new. There are many threads just like this. Use the search engine, find one and contribute to it.


--------------------


Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27300894 - 05/08/21 10:35 PM (3 years, 10 days ago)

:whathesaid:

Also, everything you've said flies in the face of stare decisis.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTight Lunchbox
Drunk cat


Registered: 11/06/16
Posts: 2,117
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Jailbird420]
    #27330597 - 05/31/21 05:23 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Damn, bro, what great talking points. I have never before laid eyes upon a thread such as this.


--------------------
"it's all a joke between mom contractions and coffin fittings"


The most useful tool for noobs

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAsante
Omnicyclion prophet
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,643
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Jailbird420] * 2
    #27330950 - 06/01/21 01:05 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

This reads like the Dutch firecracker & bottle rocket ban.

Don't take away our toys :boom:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,848
Last seen: 14 minutes, 40 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Asante]
    #27331228 - 06/01/21 08:56 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Bows and crossbows are not firearms, and not covered by the second amendment. Same with knives and swords, though Scalia seemed to be pushing the idea that the second amendment should apply to swords before he started pushing daisies.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #27331259 - 06/01/21 09:35 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

What makes you think that bows, crossbows, knives and swords are not covered by the second amendment?


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinegriffenstryker
Mycologist Beginner
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/27/21
Posts: 15
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Kryptos]
    #27331301 - 06/01/21 10:39 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Bows, Crossbows, knives and swords meet the definition of arms - They just don't meet the definition of firearms. The second amendment suggests a well regulated militia has the right to bear arms, not firearms. They're all covered by the 2nd Amendment. See District of Columbia V Heller.

Edited by griffenstryker (06/01/21 10:44 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,848
Last seen: 14 minutes, 40 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: griffenstryker]
    #27331548 - 06/01/21 03:08 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

DC v Heller, actually.

It specifically limits the second amendment to firearms, though Scalia mentions the possibility that the second amendment should apply to knives and swords, but declines to make the judgement in DC v Heller.

Edit: This is why in most places in the US, it's illegal to carry a sword openly, but perfectly alright to carry a gun.

Edited by Kryptos (06/01/21 03:14 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #27332249 - 06/02/21 06:59 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

What makes you think that that Heller limits the 2nd amendment to firearms?


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,848
Last seen: 14 minutes, 40 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil]
    #27332472 - 06/02/21 10:21 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Mostly because it didn't lead to knife/sword bans being declared unconstitutional, and the decision was tailored to firearms.

However, at several points in the decision Scalia did float the idea that the second amendment should apply to knives and swords as well, and was clearly pushing it that direction. Then he died.

Personally, I don't think that knives and swords will ever be legalized under the second amendment, because they aren't nearly as profitable. When you ell someone a gun, they'll be back to buy bullets regularly. It's like a subscription service. If you sell someone a knife, that's it. There isn't a way to monetize knife ownership.

EDIT: Wooden v US, 2010, basically confirms this. You do not have a second amendment right to carry a knife in self defense. Only a gun.

Edited by Kryptos (06/02/21 10:28 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #27332717 - 06/02/21 01:42 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

That's not a great analysis, bro.  Heller wasn't about a knife, so it didn't make any findings about whether knives are protected by the 2nd.  Wooden doesn't either.  It just says that Heller doesn't apply to knives.  It's also not the law anywhere but DC.

You claiming that there is no 2nd amendment right to carry a knife in self defense is based on nothing but an absence of contrary authority.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,848
Last seen: 14 minutes, 40 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil]
    #27332819 - 06/02/21 03:37 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
You claiming that there is no 2nd amendment right to carry a knife in self defense is based on nothing but an absence of contrary authority.




Well, yeah. That and the whole laws against carrying knives that have never been successfully challenged on second amendment grounds. As I am not eager to become a 2nd amendment martyr for knives, which nobody cares about because there isn't a market incentive to allow knives under the second amendment, it seems perfectly reasonable to conclude that second amendment only covers guns.

Though I think there is something to be said that Scalia brought up knives in the Heller opinion, but didn't really go past that.

Unfortunately, I can't seem to find the actual decision for Wooden v US, but I did find this:

Quote:

The D.C. Court of Appeals rejected this argument because: 1) it is not clear that knives are covered by Heller; and 2) even if they were, it is even less clear that Heller allows arms to be carried about in anticipation of a need to defend one’s self outside the home.



Edited by Kryptos (06/02/21 03:45 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Kryptos]
    #27333035 - 06/02/21 06:52 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
That and the whole laws against carrying knives that have never been successfully challenged on second amendment grounds.



While that may be true (and I don't know that it is), it's clear that many cases have upheld knife regulations based on 2nd amendment analysis.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,849
Loc: Ottawa Flag
Last seen: 49 minutes, 20 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil]
    #27333066 - 06/02/21 07:36 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

The 28th should be:

Guns for regular people was a mistake to begin with.  Because of the thousands of people who used them for murder every year, they should not be allowed to the general population (Insert gun fact nut fiction here).

Too stupid should be a measurable criteria but it can't be accessed.  That only leads to everybody can have a gun.

Most people are stupid...  Therefore they can own guns.

Stupid people packing heat.  Is that what you want?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,848
Last seen: 14 minutes, 40 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil]
    #27333075 - 06/02/21 07:48 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
That and the whole laws against carrying knives that have never been successfully challenged on second amendment grounds.



While that may be true (and I don't know that it is), it's clear that many cases have upheld knife regulations based on 2nd amendment analysis.




...So, many cases have upheld infringement upon the right to bear knives, based on the second amendment? Therefore, knives are not protected by the second amendment?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #27333097 - 06/02/21 08:06 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Wrong.  Therefore knives are protected by the 2nd amendment.  Those laws just happened to pass the level of scrutiny at the time.  Every right can be infringed if the infringing law passes the proper level of scrutiny.  That doesn't suddenly mean it's not a right.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,848
Last seen: 14 minutes, 40 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil]
    #27333130 - 06/02/21 08:45 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

That kinda seems like the absence of contrary authority you brought up earlier...

Unless of course your argument is that everything is a right, with various levels of infringement depending on applicable law. Which is a bit like saying everything is white, but with varying levels of color added. You'd be diluting the definition of "right" to the point of homeopathy.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Kryptos]
    #27333136 - 06/02/21 08:49 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Well, if you really want me to explain it, here goes:

If there is no constitutional right at play, the government can make any law it wants as long as there's a rational basis for the law.  If, however, there is a constitutional right, the test is higher.  There are different levels of tests, or "scrutiny," but any constitutional right will trigger some level higher than rational basis.

If the 2nd didn't apply to knives, laws would not need to meet any scrutiny.  Because laws concerning knives are typically held to intermediate scrutiny or higher, that means there's a constitutional right involved.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,490
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil]
    #27333640 - 06/03/21 08:54 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

We had a good discussion on this once in the GMO labeling thread


--------------------


Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,848
Last seen: 14 minutes, 40 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil]
    #27334032 - 06/03/21 04:14 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Because laws concerning knives are typically held to intermediate scrutiny or higher, that means there's a constitutional right involved.




Are they?

(That's a serious question, I have no idea if they are, or how to find out if they are)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Kryptos]
    #27334295 - 06/03/21 07:17 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Well, they generally are, but keep in mind that the SCOTUS hasn't taken up the issue yet.  That leaves many courts across the country coming up with different and often conflicting standards.  The bottom line here is that there is no real support for your claim that the 2nd doesn't apply to non-firearm weapons, and there is some support to the contrary.  Is it an open question?  Yes.  That's why I have an issue with your certainty.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,490
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil]
    #27334558 - 06/03/21 11:59 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

A cop once asked me if I had any weapons in the car and I said "I just have my tools and my work blade".

He said he didn't care about that. Then he impounded my truck but let me get most of my tools out first.


--------------------


Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,356
Last seen: 49 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27336177 - 06/05/21 10:14 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Back in the 90s when I was 19 , I was driving around in the desert  high as fuck in NM on my birthday with a brand new 20ga Remington 870 my mom gave me . Anyway I was in the middle of nowhere on a dirt road so I decided to hop out of my truck and start blasting away at some logs and bushes on the side of the road .  Just wanted to shoot the thing .
    I had no idea a game warden was watching me from a hill about a mile away . He drives over gets out of his suv and starts accusing me of shooting at birds . He said he saw me trying to kill a flock of small birds  and I was like no I was just shooting at some bushes .
  Of course that sounds stupid and he didn't believe me so he said " I'm going to walk out there and if I find one dead bird , snake , lizard or anything your going to jail . "
  This giant pissed off redneck goes walking around searching all through the bushes and the prickly pears really carefully , and I start to get scared as fuck . I started thinking what if I shot something on accident he's going to search my truck and find my drugs .
  After 20 mins or so he gave up and spent another 20 min lecturing me about firearm safety , for fun  I think . It was super awkward .

Edited by Psilynut2 (06/05/21 07:30 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27336186 - 06/05/21 10:27 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Your mom gave you a shotgun while she was high on meth?


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,356
Last seen: 49 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil]
    #27336210 - 06/05/21 10:54 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Ya I see what your saying , the high on meth part works better at the beginning of the sentence .
No my mom was a dickoholic , shitty boyfriends looking to take advantage of a girl with a good job was her problem .


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePatlal
You ask too many questions
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,849
Loc: Ottawa Flag
Last seen: 49 minutes, 20 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil]
    #27336537 - 06/05/21 04:57 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Your mom gave you a shotgun while she was high on meth?




Nothing wrong with that.  2nd amendment remember?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27336644 - 06/05/21 06:42 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

The edit fixed the problem, but I would lose the second "birthday."


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,356
Last seen: 49 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil]
    #27336714 - 06/05/21 07:52 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Completely agree , thanks for the free editing advice  . I was trying to convey one of the few joys to be had living in the desert as an irresponsible young man , receiving a free gun while higher than a giraffes ass on your birthday .


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,356
Last seen: 49 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Patlal]
    #27336746 - 06/05/21 08:31 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Nothing wrong with that.  2nd amendment remember?




    You would think , but I already had a 12 gauge her ex husband gave me that I still have . I also had a drug problem that she knew about . Not your typical one though , I usually had a job and I was sober most of the time , I didn't and still don't really drink . But I sold allot of drugs and I had allot of friends that sold drugs too and eventually I would find myself doing drugs with them because it's super hard to
resist free shit all the time , especially when girls are involved .
 
      All of my baller friends had guns and all of the people we sold drugs to rich and poor had guns also and most of those guns were given to everyone by other people . 
    I have way more guns that were given to me as gifts than I have purchased . It's seems stupid , I live in a country that has so many guns in circulation people get tired of owning them and give them away like used baby stuff .


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,848
Last seen: 14 minutes, 40 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27336883 - 06/05/21 11:44 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Well, they generally are, but keep in mind that the SCOTUS hasn't taken up the issue yet.  That leaves many courts across the country coming up with different and often conflicting standards.  The bottom line here is that there is no real support for your claim that the 2nd doesn't apply to non-firearm weapons, and there is some support to the contrary.  Is it an open question?  Yes.  That's why I have an issue with your certainty.





Alright, but is it even worth legalizing knives? I can make money off a shooting by selling someone a bullet, but how do I make money off a stabbing?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Kryptos]
    #27336906 - 06/06/21 12:23 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I'm not sure what you mean by "legalizing knives."  Knives aren't illegal.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,848
Last seen: 14 minutes, 40 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil]
    #27336952 - 06/06/21 01:15 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Legalizing knives to thew point of guns. Like, minimally restricted open carry type thing.

It's still illegal as fuck for me to walk around with my machete on my hip.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Kryptos]
    #27337177 - 06/06/21 08:02 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Knives are way less regulated than guns, though.  At least in the U.S.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,356
Last seen: 49 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Kryptos]
    #27337194 - 06/06/21 08:23 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

It's still illegal as fuck for me to walk around with my machete on my hip.





  I could be wrong but I think machetes are classified as agricultural tools and aren't subject to the same laws that regulate knives and swords  . You may be able to walk  around with it .


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,490
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27337326 - 06/06/21 10:27 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I wear a mini-machete when I'm in the woods and hills. I forgot to take it off and didn't notice until I was inside a dispensary. Nobody gave a flying fuck. Once I was fishing and a couple of park rangers snuck up on me. I stood and turned with my hand on my knife handle and they didn't even bat an eyelash. They just wanted to let me know that despite the fence line, I was on private property and while they didn't care, if the owner called the sheriff, the sheriff would come fuck with me.
It matters where you are.
The state of california requires that daggers be carried exposed while Los Angeles county requires that daggers be carried concealed. Very strange contradiction. I've never really been certain which law supercedes which.

As far as the ag tool argument goes, I think any knife can be a work tool. It depends a lot on what you say.  If you admit that you carry a machete for self defense, it may become a dangerous weapon or whatever whereas if you claim it's a tool for work, the burden of proof lies on your accusers to prove otherwise. I could easily be wrong about that though.


--------------------


Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlackrainbow2
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/16/20
Posts: 371
Loc: right behind U
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Jailbird420]
    #27348720 - 06/15/21 03:50 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Everyone seems to have this odd idea of what the 2nd Amendment is for. This was done on purpose by weapons manufacturers and given a voice through the NRA. 

(NO) sorry NRA was not around when the second was written) and Everyone.... is kinda wrong too as everyone doesn't even agree with the color of the sky... and weapons manufacturers..were not back in those days either as they were usually a custom gunsmith type shop..not a factory.. Remington was the first and earliest U.S. gun maker... so again you are mistaken..

and read the quote stop at each comma and try to understand what it says.. IE.. the people is the key word and the other stuff is secondary.. 

    Quote:
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.



This one sentence is talking about the citizens' right to form a well-regulated Militia. 

(NO) again you are wrong... the people don't form a a Militia.. they are the Militia.. they have no right to form anything they just have the right to arms...

It was designed for the citizens to form a militia to protect the state from invaders.  Nope it give the people in the states the tools to protect their States from any dangers, invaders or criminals crooked cops native tribes overreaching gov.. etc

Since we had no standing army at the time, everyone was expected to participate in the militia. half true (only men) white land owners to be exact.. no women no blacks etc..

Well, fast-forward 200 years and we have a standing National Militia, a State Militia, and local militia in the form of police.
You are free to join those if you have the need/desire to play with the big guns. 

again Lots of people can't join those groups because they don't qualify... too fat, too old, too broken, too young,, don't want to do those jobs,,you're not saying all those people should be barred the ability to defend their family property and so forth..

If you’re not a part of a well-regulated militia, you have no need for any kind of semi-automatic weapon.  You have no need for a car either you can walk or bike to work.. Why is a semi auto so problematic..I can shoot a pump just as fast as a semi or close enough to not make a difference to the target.. even a revolver can be shot extremely fast..just watch Jery Mitchlack.. and a Lever action can sling lead with semi auto speed too... someone is being brainwashed by the media....

Keep all the muskets and muzzleloaders your feeble little frame can carry for all I care. 

You care about what GUNS are in the hands of good people, ya better wanta keep the second..since if we didn't have it, only the criminals police and the military would have guns...

You do not have a need for a semi-automatic weapon. some folks need them.. but need is not for you to decide..

As it stands now you can lose your right to arm yourself if the state so chooses.
That proves that, as things are now, gun ownership is a privilege.

It just proved the state doesn't care about your human right and the right to defend your life with the most effective tools avai.

Our laws around weapons need a MAJOR overhaul. 

No not really there are too many laws already and most are unenforceable anyway..do some research and you will see...

Here is my proposal that doesn’t violate the 2nd Amendment in any way:

All citizens can own, with little to no training; bows and cross-bows, muzzleloaders, single-shot shotguns, single-shot bolt-action rifles up to a caliber of ~.306 (the size of this caliber can be debated). The ability to own these weapons cannot be infringed unless you are convicted of a violent criminal offense. (as it stands now anyone convicted of any felony loses their gun rights) 

Sorry..ain't ever gonna happen.. there are well over 650 million guns in the hands of Americans and they can be 3D printed and or welded and or machined out.. in hour's..the genie can't be put back in the bottle.. not to mention the Black market guns,,smuggled across the border along with the dope...and those ain't gonna be semi auto only..

All other weapons (especially semi-automatic ones) should be heavily regulated, and only those well trained to use them should be able to get the needed license to own them. Most people in an active militia can own most of these semi-automatic weapons, but once they are no longer in service they must turn their weapons in. 

Sorry ain't gonna work.. maybe in Canada (but it didn't work there either since they scraped the registry..after spending a Billion dollars on it...LOL...

There are simple, common-sense ways to address our gun laws in the U.S. and still honor the 2nd Amendment.  I agree,,and it's already in place...thousand of gun laws on the books and they keep pushing more..

repares for the shit-storm from the Gun nuts about My FreeDumbs



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSugabearcrisp
Not Your Average Bear
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/14/19
Posts: 13,102
Loc: OTD & ODD
Last seen: 2 hours, 37 minutes
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Jailbird420]
    #27348745 - 06/15/21 04:35 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

First off the 2nd amendment predates the first american firearms maker by 25 years so the idea it was written by weapons manufacturers is false.

Second I need a semiautomatic weapon because we have bears, coyotes and wild hogs and stopping to reload a musket while one is charging is stupid. I know it is hard for citybois to believe but there are large portions of the country where a gun is needed.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechristopera
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,471
Last seen: 1 hour, 19 minutes
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #27348888 - 06/15/21 07:48 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

It would be a lot more interesting if you had to reload a musket though.

I grew up in the country about 7 miles from the nearest "town" and I can't think of a single time where I needed a gun, as in, truly needed it. We had/have lots of them, but there wasn't a single time where a gun was more useful than the microwave. Sure the microwave is a lot less masculine, it's pretty hard to jerk off to, but when I needed warm food that microwave sure came through.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,356
Last seen: 49 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #27348958 - 06/15/21 08:49 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Second I need a semiautomatic weapon because we have bears, coyotes and wild hogs and stopping to reload a musket while one is charging is stupid. I




Mmm coyotes ? I caught one in my yard trying to eat my chickens and I handled it with a hunting bow .  Never felt like I needed a firearm for those things , a big stick will work .
  I've read a few studies that say bear spray is a better deterrent than a gun and after having one really close encounter with a large bear I think that's true .
  It may not feel like it , but bears move so fast if you don't kill it or scare it off on the first shot you probably won't get a second one  , unless you have an auto of course .
  I wouldn't want an automatic firearm for bears though , I would prefer a revolver , something you know will work , you don't have to fuck around with a safety ,  autos just don't make sense for wildlife encounters .  Anything besides a 223 is to heavy to lug around and that's not a very good bear bullet .


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,490
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27348971 - 06/15/21 08:55 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

10mm is fine for a bear. Certainly no heavier than a .44


--------------------


Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSugabearcrisp
Not Your Average Bear
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/14/19
Posts: 13,102
Loc: OTD & ODD
Last seen: 2 hours, 37 minutes
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27348993 - 06/15/21 09:08 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

The problem with using a bow for a coyote is that if you don't get a clean shot and it runs you aren't getting a second arrow off before it is gone, now you have an injured animal to track, that is cruel. A semiauto allows a quick follow up shot to be taken if needed.
I have an AR pistol chambered in 7.62x39 that will take a bear just fine and weighs no more than a .223/5.56. That said a 5.56 green tip or hollow point is also going to be g2g on a bear, it iss just that a lot of states require a 30 cal minimum for hunting so people don't use 223/5.56, but it is certainly a lethal round.

Anyways a revolver is a semiautomatic weapon too, so that is off the table according to your original post.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,356
Last seen: 49 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #27349046 - 06/15/21 09:43 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The problem with using a bow for a coyote is that if you don't get a clean shot and it runs you aren't getting a second arrow off before it is gone, now you have an injured animal to track, that is crue




  If your going to bow hunt you have to be ok will cruelty , giving an animal time to die before you start tracking it is routine .  I didn't want to finish it off with my bow and risk breaking a 15$ arrow so beat it to death with a shovel .

Quote:


Anyways a revolver is a semiautomatic weapon too, so that is off the table according to your original post.




    It's not off the table , it's better than nothing .
  I'm just trying to explain there are better options  than an semi auto .
  Can of bear spray weighs 10oz , is much easier to deliver in a life or death situation and is pretty much the only thing that will stop multiple bears attacking from different directions  Would you carry a gun if you aren't hunting ?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSugabearcrisp
Not Your Average Bear
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/14/19
Posts: 13,102
Loc: OTD & ODD
Last seen: 2 hours, 37 minutes
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27349095 - 06/15/21 10:23 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah I am no okay with cruelty, if I have to kill a living thing I want it to be as quick and sure as possible. Beating an animal to death with a shovel is just plain inhumane, the fact you did it to save $15 says an awful lot about the type of human you are.

So no semi-autos but revolvers are a-okay?

Seems arbitrary at best and by extension would allow gattling guns since they technically don't qualify as semi-auto.

You really have failed to make any sort of convincing argument.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,356
Last seen: 49 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #27349184 - 06/15/21 11:43 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


Yeah I am no okay with cruelty, if I have to kill a living thing I want it to be as quick and sure as possible. Beating an animal to death with a shovel is just plain inhumane, the fact you did it to save $15 says an awful lot about the type of human you are.




    If you cared about being humane you wouldn't use an ar15 for bear protection , bear spray is way more humane . It's also allot easier to administer in panic situation . You don't have to aim , if your going to spray and pray with with a bear it's better to use spray .

    When it comes to coyotes I can't fire a gun in my backyard I will go to jail . The only thing the city does is post warnings about the overpopulation problem , and since archery is allowed , well ?
    The arrow went down its spine longways since I shot it head on , I wasn't going to get close to it to finish it . You ever try to shoot an animal flopping around with a bow ?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSugabearcrisp
Not Your Average Bear
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/14/19
Posts: 13,102
Loc: OTD & ODD
Last seen: 2 hours, 37 minutes
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27349202 - 06/15/21 11:56 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

You are really poor at debating, have failed to make a valid argument and are now just resorting to childish "I'm rubber you're glue" type responses.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,356
Last seen: 49 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #27349242 - 06/15/21 12:30 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

No , I'm giving you good advice about bears and coyotes , coyotes  have the same legal protection as rats by the way .  Would you kill a rat with a shovel ?  I'm not sure what the difference is between those two animals , other than size and the lack of a facebook page dedicated to all of the dogs, kitties , and  backyard chickens killed by them in my town .  I wouldn't even risk scratching my samurai sword to finish one .

Quote:

bear. No deterrent is 100% effective, but compared to all others, including firearms, proper use of bear spray has proven to be the best method for fending off threatening and attacking bears, and for preventing injury to the person and animal involved.



 
https://above.nasa.gov/safety/documents/Bear/bearspray_vs_bullets.pdf


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,356
Last seen: 49 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27375498 - 07/05/21 06:44 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

US sees more than 400 shootings, 150 deaths over Fourth of July weekend




    https://kvoa.com/news/top-stories/2021/07/05/us-sees-more-than-400-shootings-150-deaths-over-fourth-of-july-weekend/

  All bad people who deserved it I imagine .


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27375956 - 07/06/21 07:27 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

We all deserve it.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,356
Last seen: 49 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil]
    #27377976 - 07/07/21 05:27 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know about all of us , I'm pretty sure about Ashli Babbitt though . I kinda wished they had used a shovel too ...


--------------------

Edited by Psilynut2 (07/07/21 06:11 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMach z 800
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 1,580
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27378932 - 07/08/21 10:07 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

A 10mm is basically pushing it. I would not carry nothing less than .44 magnum but a smith an Wesson 500 would be the way to go for pistols.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,490
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Mach z 800]
    #27379623 - 07/08/21 06:42 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

That's unnecessary.
10mm is fine.


--------------------


Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechristopera
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,471
Last seen: 1 hour, 19 minutes
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27379635 - 07/08/21 06:50 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Of my guns my Makarov is my least favorite gun. I don't know if it's because it's Russian, or if it's because 10mm is just a brutal round, but I don't particularly like anything about that gun.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,490
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: christopera]
    #27379655 - 07/08/21 07:02 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I thought that was a 9mm round. 9x18mm.
Either way, yeah, 10mm is punchy and rounds designed for penetration are sufficient for bear


--------------------


Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechristopera
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,471
Last seen: 1 hour, 19 minutes
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27379696 - 07/08/21 07:22 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Well... This specific PM isn't in its normal state. My grandfather modified it (he was a machinist) to use a 10mm round because the 9.35mm round was hard to get (apparently?). Which I suppose is partly to blame for how bad the gun sucks. It's been at least a decade since I've fired it. I inherited it and am the third generation owner. Otherwise I'd get rid of it.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,490
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: christopera]
    #27379872 - 07/08/21 09:10 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

That's a cool mod but I could see why it could be uncomfortable to shoot. It's pretty light for the round. Lighter than a glock 20 and much lighter than a 1911


--------------------


Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleModularMind
M.P.F.
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/09/10
Posts: 7,902
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Jailbird420] * 1
    #27383661 - 07/11/21 08:57 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Jailbird420 said:…rifles up to a caliber of ~.306 (the size of this caliber can be debated)




That it doesn’t exist isn’t exactly debatable.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebio_alchemist
Shroom Operator
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/21/18
Posts: 591
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 8 days, 9 hours
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: ModularMind]
    #27402266 - 07/25/21 11:34 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed




Did this turn into a pro 2a thread?
:awepreciation:
After 10 months I finally got a call that my Cetme L is shipping out
:justcantwait:

Two of my Veprs soaking up some sun


Also how did everyone get the idea that the NRA is pro 2A :rofl:

Gun owners usually hate them because they always compromise and help pass gun control.

Antigun people hate them because they think the 5 million+ americans that fund it are literally Satan

I wonder when they will find out about GOA and FPC

Edited by bio_alchemist (07/25/21 11:40 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTight Lunchbox
Drunk cat


Registered: 11/06/16
Posts: 2,117
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: bio_alchemist]
    #27402729 - 07/26/21 11:41 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Don't forget about the Liberal Gun Club.


--------------------
"it's all a joke between mom contractions and coffin fittings"


The most useful tool for noobs

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSugabearcrisp
Not Your Average Bear
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/14/19
Posts: 13,102
Loc: OTD & ODD
Last seen: 2 hours, 37 minutes
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: bio_alchemist]
    #27403322 - 07/26/21 07:32 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

bio_alchemist said:

Two of my Veprs soaking up some sun







Those ca/ny compliant grips are so fucking weird. It is like someone forgot to cut off the molding parts.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechristopera
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,471
Last seen: 1 hour, 19 minutes
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #27413902 - 08/04/21 08:52 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Obligatory copypasta.

Quote:

I own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.




--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSugabearcrisp
Not Your Average Bear
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/14/19
Posts: 13,102
Loc: OTD & ODD
Last seen: 2 hours, 37 minutes
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: christopera]
    #27413909 - 08/04/21 09:01 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Obligatory copypasta.

Quote:

I own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.







Shoulda had a blunderbuss

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,356
Last seen: 49 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #27414108 - 08/04/21 11:08 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Sounds kinda inhumane , and indiscriminate .


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,848
Last seen: 14 minutes, 40 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27414374 - 08/04/21 03:02 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Meh, nothing wrong with a little collateral damage.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMach z 800
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 1,580
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Jailbird420] * 2
    #27414500 - 08/04/21 05:02 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Im more scared of some crazy karen in mini van running down people than some dude with a gun or a knife.

Edited by Mach z 800 (08/04/21 05:03 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,848
Last seen: 14 minutes, 40 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Mach z 800] * 1
    #27414523 - 08/04/21 05:22 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Only a good guy with a gun can stop a Karen with a minivan.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLoaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,011
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Mach z 800] * 1
    #27420472 - 08/09/21 12:38 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mach z 800 said:
Im more scared of some crazy karen in mini van running down people than some dude with a gun or a knife.




I'm infinitely more terrified by blind-leading-the-blind folks such a OP, with his haughtily arrogant exposition of half-facts to buffer his liberal world view, simply to prove he isn't of the same cloth of the people he disagrees with, while acting like that's not what he's doing, and he's better than everyone for it in the process, etc.

I don't own a gun, nor plan to; but OP is a prime example of people being unable to not prove they're a fucking idiot, because yes they're that bored and have internet access.

Please see the first quote in my signature below.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHolybullshit
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/19
Posts: 1,576
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Jailbird420]
    #27420703 - 08/09/21 08:31 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Exactly, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed...it doesn't say the right of the person.

And apparently the founding fathers intended for well-regulated to be interpreted as no regulations at all. After all the best regulations are no regulations, just ask any republicon. /s

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Holybullshit]
    #27420720 - 08/09/21 09:01 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

What distinction are you arguing between "people" and "person?"  The first amendment protects the right of the people, too.....are you claiming that this isn't an individual right?

and well-regulated refers to training and discipline. 

The 2nd amendment clearly says that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.  I don't see any argument that this isn't an individual right.  People who claim it isn't are simply trying to circumvent a constitutional provision they don't like.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHolybullshit
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/19
Posts: 1,576
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #27421204 - 08/09/21 02:52 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Is a single person a militia? the term "the people" has always been understood to mean the population as a whole, not a single person.

Go read the constitution, they make liberal use of the word person when they mean to signify an individual. They did not use the word persons here.

At the time states, cities, towns had their own militias. Their weapons collected in a storehouse. During the revolutionary war the British confiscated these weapons...the 2nd amendment was to ensure the federal government doesn't confiscate weapons from local and state militias, so the militias could defend against the tyranny of the federal government if necessary...as quite a few of the founders were concerned that would happen.

That was the world the founders lived in...they weren't thinking of automatic rifles, extended clips, silencers, and individuals stockpiling enough weapons that the taliban would be jealous.

But I am perfectly fine with any "persons" bearing whatever weapons they want...as long as they are part of a well regulated militia.


Quote:

What distinction are you arguing between "people" and "person?"  The first amendment protects the right of the people, too.....are you claiming that this isn't an individual right?




Yes, it protects the right of "the people" to assemble. Generally takes more than one person. It does not use the phrase "the people" when talking about free speech.

But the 4th, 5th, 12th, 14th, 20th, 22nd amendments, and articles I, II, III, IV all make use of the word "persons" when referring to individuals.

Edited by Holybullshit (08/09/21 03:12 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 14 minutes, 53 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Holybullshit]
    #27421239 - 08/09/21 03:12 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

So when there are a stockpile of guns, are they distributed to people or persons?

Why does it matter the amount of human hands holding a weapon? After all, a group of people holding guns could cause more harm than a single individual holding a one.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHolybullshit
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/19
Posts: 1,576
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #27421242 - 08/09/21 03:14 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

It matters if that stockpile was well regulated or not...that's the point, not just anyone could come up and get guns out of the storehouse because they got angry at someone in the bar.

Quote:

After all, a group of people holding guns could cause more harm than a single individual holding a one.




That's the whole point! that's why it matters how many people have access to weapons...because everyone having access to guns all the time is dangerous.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Holybullshit]
    #27421243 - 08/09/21 03:14 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Holybullshit said:
Is a single person a militia?


No.  What's your point?
Quote:

the term "the people" has always been understood to mean the population as a whole, not a single person.


Source?
Quote:



Go read the constitution, they make liberal use of the word person when they mean to signify an individual. They did not use the word persons here.


I've read the constitution ad nauseum.  The fourth amendment protects you individually from unreasonable search and seizure.  It does that because it uses the word "people."
Quote:



At the time states, cities, towns had their own militias. Their weapons collected in a storehouse. During the revolutionary war the British confiscated these weapons...the 2nd amendment was to ensure the federal government doesn't confiscate weapons from local and state militias, so the militias could defend against the tyranny of the federal government if necessary...as quite a few of the founders were concerned that would happen.

That was the world the founders lived in...they weren't thinking of automatic rifles, extended clips, silencers, and individuals stockpiling enough weapons that the taliban would be jealous.

But I am perfectly fine with the "the people" bearing whatever weapons they want...as long as they are part of a well regulated militia.


If that's what they meant, they should have said that.  Instead, they pointed out that because a well-regulated militia is important, the right of the PEOPLE shall not be infringed.

Your opinion is just that.  The SCOTUS opinion, on the other hand, is law.  Unfortunately for you, those two opinions aren't the same.

You think the court got it wrong?  Tough shit.  I think the court got it wrong in Griswold v Connecticut and Roe v. Wade.  You don't see me making threads crying about it.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHolybullshit
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/19
Posts: 1,576
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #27421246 - 08/09/21 03:17 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Cool story bro.

Expressing your opinion on law and government action is kind of how a democracy works...guess you didn't pay attention in civics?

Quote:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 14 minutes, 53 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Holybullshit]
    #27421256 - 08/09/21 03:25 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Persons is only considered correct in legal contexts (like the Constitution)and, sometimes, when deliberately referring to humans individually,  not on a collective basis.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Holybullshit]
    #27421447 - 08/09/21 05:08 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

"the right of the PEOPLE."


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejunk_f00d
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Jailbird420]
    #27539679 - 11/11/21 06:28 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

You can centralize and monopolize violence or you can decentralize and democratize or socialize it. Why favor a central monopoly on violence where you're most likely excluded? I can envision many ways in which that may go poorly for those on the wrong side of the coin.

Edited by junk_f00d (11/11/21 06:30 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrian Jones
Club 27
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,455
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 7 hours, 35 minutes
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: junk_f00d]
    #27540049 - 11/12/21 04:15 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Just as Trump believes his folowers are morons to be taken advantage for his own gain, so do the leaders of the NRA.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nra-leaders-called-its-members-hillbillies-and-fruitcakes-in-secretly-recorded-audio-following-columbine-massacre/ar-AAQv87r?ocid=


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27540259 - 11/12/21 08:53 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I read the linked article.  I didn't listen to the recording, but I don't see anything in there to support the notion that they think that their members are morons to be taken advantage of.  If anything, it seems like they're trying to manage the perception so that the fringe of their membership don't make it look like the entire membership are hillbillies.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,356
Last seen: 49 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil]
    #27540342 - 11/12/21 10:11 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

They were worried if they  gave their members a place to gather only  or mostly crazy ones would show up .  They don't seem to talk much about the proportions in their ranks . 
  Personally , from spending allot of time in conservative neighborhoods , I feel like it's about 20 to 35%  .


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAsante
Omnicyclion prophet
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,643
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27541285 - 11/13/21 03:31 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I want to invite the assembled to watch the very satisfying video of a LeMat black powder revolver being loaded and fired. These were the weapons of the 2nd amendment.



--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSugabearcrisp
Not Your Average Bear
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/14/19
Posts: 13,102
Loc: OTD & ODD
Last seen: 2 hours, 37 minutes
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Asante]
    #27541344 - 11/13/21 05:32 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
I want to invite the assembled to watch the very satisfying video of a LeMat black powder revolver being loaded and fired. These were the weapons of the 2nd amendment.






If you are not willing to apply originalism to the entire constitution and bill of rights you can't go applying it to specific amendments.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinechristopera
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,471
Last seen: 1 hour, 19 minutes
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #27541352 - 11/13/21 05:43 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Originalism is dumb. The entire premise is an assumption about intent, because it can’t be anything more since the originals are dead, and it does so without reframing it to modernity. It’s really the worst appeal to authority, and it’s a cheap cop out.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSugabearcrisp
Not Your Average Bear
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/14/19
Posts: 13,102
Loc: OTD & ODD
Last seen: 2 hours, 37 minutes
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: christopera]
    #27541444 - 11/13/21 07:42 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Oh I agree originalism is dumb, but that is what asante was attempting to put forth by saying that muzzle loaders were the guns of the 2nd amendment. I have seen other folks make the same argument. My point is that you can't make that argument on a piecemeal basis, therefore if you believe that the 2nd amendment applies to only muzzle loaders you also have to accept no right to privacy, no right to reproductive choice and in all likelyhood only white, male, landholders would be able to vote as those were the circumstances at the time of drafting.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,515
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Sugabearcrisp] * 1
    #27541732 - 11/13/21 11:46 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

If the 2nd is obsolete, there is a process to change it or remove it. That process doesn't involve pretending it means something else.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,356
Last seen: 49 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Asante] * 1
    #27543360 - 11/14/21 04:50 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I want to invite the assembled to watch the very satisfying video of a LeMat black powder revolver being loaded and fired. These were the weapons of the 2nd amendment




    No wonder they agreed to meet on a field and stand within range to shoot at each other .  You would be better off using swords or even archery if everyone moved around and hid behind trees .
    You may have been better off with archery anyway , if your badass.



--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5  [ show all ]

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
dee_N_ae 13,940 131 09/19/02 01:08 PM
by francisco
* for alex123: court cases involving the 2nd amendment
( 1 2 3 all )
Anonymous 7,397 58 01/23/04 04:34 PM
by luvdemshrooms
* So did they find anything or not?
( 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 all )
Anonymous 5,400 181 08/13/03 04:48 AM
by Cornholio
* GOP takes the house!!!
( 1 2 3 all )
ehud 2,384 50 11/07/02 07:01 PM
by ehud
* Libertarians-your take on the FDA? monoamine 567 10 10/26/03 12:26 PM
by ToxicMan
* Let Iraq Take Care of Iraq Zahid 335 1 11/01/03 04:21 PM
by Baby_Hitler
* Conservatives taking over this forum?
( 1 2 all )
silversoul7 2,090 33 07/08/03 02:06 AM
by GazzBut
* Questioning some assumptions Tao 359 1 05/17/04 10:53 AM
by Tao

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
2,083 topic views. 0 members, 2 guests and 8 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.043 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 14 queries.