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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #27413902 - 08/04/21 08:52 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Obligatory copypasta.

Quote:

I own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.




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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: christopera]
    #27413909 - 08/04/21 09:01 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Obligatory copypasta.

Quote:

I own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.







Shoulda had a blunderbuss

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OfflinePsilynut2
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Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,356
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #27414108 - 08/04/21 11:08 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Sounds kinda inhumane , and indiscriminate .


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27414374 - 08/04/21 03:02 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Meh, nothing wrong with a little collateral damage.

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OfflineMach z 800
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Jailbird420] * 2
    #27414500 - 08/04/21 05:02 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Im more scared of some crazy karen in mini van running down people than some dude with a gun or a knife.

Edited by Mach z 800 (08/04/21 05:03 PM)

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Mach z 800] * 1
    #27414523 - 08/04/21 05:22 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Only a good guy with a gun can stop a Karen with a minivan.

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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Mach z 800] * 1
    #27420472 - 08/09/21 12:38 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mach z 800 said:
Im more scared of some crazy karen in mini van running down people than some dude with a gun or a knife.




I'm infinitely more terrified by blind-leading-the-blind folks such a OP, with his haughtily arrogant exposition of half-facts to buffer his liberal world view, simply to prove he isn't of the same cloth of the people he disagrees with, while acting like that's not what he's doing, and he's better than everyone for it in the process, etc.

I don't own a gun, nor plan to; but OP is a prime example of people being unable to not prove they're a fucking idiot, because yes they're that bored and have internet access.

Please see the first quote in my signature below.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius

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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Jailbird420]
    #27420703 - 08/09/21 08:31 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Exactly, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed...it doesn't say the right of the person.

And apparently the founding fathers intended for well-regulated to be interpreted as no regulations at all. After all the best regulations are no regulations, just ask any republicon. /s

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Holybullshit]
    #27420720 - 08/09/21 09:01 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

What distinction are you arguing between "people" and "person?"  The first amendment protects the right of the people, too.....are you claiming that this isn't an individual right?

and well-regulated refers to training and discipline. 

The 2nd amendment clearly says that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.  I don't see any argument that this isn't an individual right.  People who claim it isn't are simply trying to circumvent a constitutional provision they don't like.


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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #27421204 - 08/09/21 02:52 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Is a single person a militia? the term "the people" has always been understood to mean the population as a whole, not a single person.

Go read the constitution, they make liberal use of the word person when they mean to signify an individual. They did not use the word persons here.

At the time states, cities, towns had their own militias. Their weapons collected in a storehouse. During the revolutionary war the British confiscated these weapons...the 2nd amendment was to ensure the federal government doesn't confiscate weapons from local and state militias, so the militias could defend against the tyranny of the federal government if necessary...as quite a few of the founders were concerned that would happen.

That was the world the founders lived in...they weren't thinking of automatic rifles, extended clips, silencers, and individuals stockpiling enough weapons that the taliban would be jealous.

But I am perfectly fine with any "persons" bearing whatever weapons they want...as long as they are part of a well regulated militia.


Quote:

What distinction are you arguing between "people" and "person?"  The first amendment protects the right of the people, too.....are you claiming that this isn't an individual right?




Yes, it protects the right of "the people" to assemble. Generally takes more than one person. It does not use the phrase "the people" when talking about free speech.

But the 4th, 5th, 12th, 14th, 20th, 22nd amendments, and articles I, II, III, IV all make use of the word "persons" when referring to individuals.

Edited by Holybullshit (08/09/21 03:12 PM)

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Holybullshit]
    #27421239 - 08/09/21 03:12 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

So when there are a stockpile of guns, are they distributed to people or persons?

Why does it matter the amount of human hands holding a weapon? After all, a group of people holding guns could cause more harm than a single individual holding a one.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #27421242 - 08/09/21 03:14 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

It matters if that stockpile was well regulated or not...that's the point, not just anyone could come up and get guns out of the storehouse because they got angry at someone in the bar.

Quote:

After all, a group of people holding guns could cause more harm than a single individual holding a one.




That's the whole point! that's why it matters how many people have access to weapons...because everyone having access to guns all the time is dangerous.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Holybullshit]
    #27421243 - 08/09/21 03:14 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Holybullshit said:
Is a single person a militia?


No.  What's your point?
Quote:

the term "the people" has always been understood to mean the population as a whole, not a single person.


Source?
Quote:



Go read the constitution, they make liberal use of the word person when they mean to signify an individual. They did not use the word persons here.


I've read the constitution ad nauseum.  The fourth amendment protects you individually from unreasonable search and seizure.  It does that because it uses the word "people."
Quote:



At the time states, cities, towns had their own militias. Their weapons collected in a storehouse. During the revolutionary war the British confiscated these weapons...the 2nd amendment was to ensure the federal government doesn't confiscate weapons from local and state militias, so the militias could defend against the tyranny of the federal government if necessary...as quite a few of the founders were concerned that would happen.

That was the world the founders lived in...they weren't thinking of automatic rifles, extended clips, silencers, and individuals stockpiling enough weapons that the taliban would be jealous.

But I am perfectly fine with the "the people" bearing whatever weapons they want...as long as they are part of a well regulated militia.


If that's what they meant, they should have said that.  Instead, they pointed out that because a well-regulated militia is important, the right of the PEOPLE shall not be infringed.

Your opinion is just that.  The SCOTUS opinion, on the other hand, is law.  Unfortunately for you, those two opinions aren't the same.

You think the court got it wrong?  Tough shit.  I think the court got it wrong in Griswold v Connecticut and Roe v. Wade.  You don't see me making threads crying about it.


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InvisibleHolybullshit
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #27421246 - 08/09/21 03:17 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Cool story bro.

Expressing your opinion on law and government action is kind of how a democracy works...guess you didn't pay attention in civics?

Quote:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.



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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Holybullshit]
    #27421256 - 08/09/21 03:25 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Persons is only considered correct in legal contexts (like the Constitution)and, sometimes, when deliberately referring to humans individually,  not on a collective basis.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Holybullshit]
    #27421447 - 08/09/21 05:08 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

"the right of the PEOPLE."


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Offlinejunk_f00d
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Jailbird420]
    #27539679 - 11/11/21 06:28 PM (2 years, 6 months ago)

You can centralize and monopolize violence or you can decentralize and democratize or socialize it. Why favor a central monopoly on violence where you're most likely excluded? I can envision many ways in which that may go poorly for those on the wrong side of the coin.

Edited by junk_f00d (11/11/21 06:30 PM)

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: junk_f00d]
    #27540049 - 11/12/21 04:15 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

Just as Trump believes his folowers are morons to be taken advantage for his own gain, so do the leaders of the NRA.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nra-leaders-called-its-members-hillbillies-and-fruitcakes-in-secretly-recorded-audio-following-columbine-massacre/ar-AAQv87r?ocid=


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27540259 - 11/12/21 08:53 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

I read the linked article.  I didn't listen to the recording, but I don't see anything in there to support the notion that they think that their members are morons to be taken advantage of.  If anything, it seems like they're trying to manage the perception so that the fringe of their membership don't make it look like the entire membership are hillbillies.


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Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish

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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Taking a new look at the 2nd [Re: Enlil]
    #27540342 - 11/12/21 10:11 AM (2 years, 6 months ago)

They were worried if they  gave their members a place to gather only  or mostly crazy ones would show up .  They don't seem to talk much about the proportions in their ranks . 
  Personally , from spending allot of time in conservative neighborhoods , I feel like it's about 20 to 35%  .


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