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Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleRhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher
Other


Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 786
Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27291064 - 05/02/21 08:32 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
I disagree that we need X to know Y, etc. That's conflating corollaries with opposites, another infamous philosophical speed bump rarely addressed. We're discussing apples and dishwashers here.

I'm not pointing fingers at you personally this is just a very, very common occurrence on here! :heart::sunny:



Oh I wholeheartedly agree. I'm just entertaining said philosophical speed bump because others brought it up :shrug:

People tend to perceive many things as dualistic constructs. Take light and darkness; In our minds they are opposites but in reality darkness is simply the absence of light. Mathematically this is like categorizing 0 as the opposite of every other number (every other number reflecting the quantity of light particles), which fails logically. This analogy is less direct for constructions of good vs. bad, but it still helps to understand that they don't need to be universally conceptualized as opposites (especially with regards to the all powerful principle :rolleyes:)


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:cookiemonster: Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks:elmo:

:awesomenod: Easiest No-Pour Agar Method: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers:awesomenod:


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OfflineNeurotech
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Registered: 05/05/20
Posts: 651
Last seen: 4 hours, 9 minutes
Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Rhizomorph]
    #27298589 - 05/07/21 12:19 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Rhizomorph said: People tend to perceive many things as dualistic constructs. Take light and darkness; In our minds they are opposites but in reality darkness is simply the absence of light. Mathematically this is like categorizing 0 as the opposite of every other number (every other number reflecting the quantity of light particles), which fails logically. This analogy is less direct for constructions of good vs. bad, but it still helps to understand that they don't need to be universally conceptualized as opposites (especially with regards to the all powerful principle :rolleyes:)




I can't understand what you mean by darkness? The absence of _______? Try to explain darkness without referring to light.

Take any adjective and try to describe what it means without it's opposite or corollary. You might find synonyms, but I don't think you can describe good or darkness without referring to bad or light directly or via a synonym. That is, they can't exist without the other.

I agree of course that 0 is not the opposite of one. But how can you describe one without knowing it follows zero? Zero must exist for there to be One. no? There is always something on either side of an equation. on either side of =, ? <, > etcetera.


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InvisibleAsante
Mage
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,958
Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: skOsH]
    #27301463 - 05/09/21 10:32 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

skOsH said:
I feel like the universe is a living thing




Your entire interaction with the Universe is your communication with it.

You can purify yourself and your connection, and refine the line to communicate more dirctly with The One who is All Things.

Make that call.







--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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InvisibleRhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher
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Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 786
Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Neurotech] * 2
    #27302166 - 05/09/21 09:37 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Neurotech said:I can't understand what you mean by darkness? The absence of _______? Try to explain darkness without referring to light.

Take any adjective and try to describe what it means without it's opposite or corollary. You might find synonyms, but I don't think you can describe good or darkness without referring to bad or light directly or via a synonym. That is, they can't exist without the other.

I agree of course that 0 is not the opposite of one. But how can you describe one without knowing it follows zero? Zero must exist for there to be One. no? There is always something on either side of an equation. on either side of =, ? <, > etcetera.



Thanks for the food for thought. I appreciate your insight! :super:

I believe you are confusing objective characteristics with human utility. By all means dualistic constructions are very useful to us. But just because it is hard to explain darkness without light does not mean their latent nature is dualistic. It is just an easy way to characterize them that applies in most (generally non-philosophical) situations. To elaborate on this notion, I ask you to consider how we would describe darkness in a universe without light? Darkness would still exist (i.e. 0 would still exist), but we may just not describe it the same, if at all (out of sheer utility - i.e. darkness would be a constant so why describe it - how could we come to understand it if it is a constant?). But, just because we may not be able to understand it doesn't mean it would not still exist; the latent characteristic represented as '0' in this case is still present. In premise, a universe without light is possible so we know this characteristic translates to our universe despite the descriptive difficulties. The dualistic construction is therefore just a heuristic. Useful, and applicable in 99% of situations, but it fails logically if we hold the heuristic to too high of a standard.

Another way to put this is that we don't need quantity (1,2,3... infinity) to have an absence of quantity (0). It may be hard for us to understand but the universe could theoretically exist as a vacuum without quantity. 0 can exist without 1, just as an empty box can exist without other boxes that are filled with something. The descriptive challenges we face in describing an empty box without a referring to a filled box are irrelevant as we can show mathematically (i.e. logically) how they can exist independently.


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:cookiemonster: Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks:elmo:

:awesomenod: Easiest No-Pour Agar Method: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers:awesomenod:


Edited by Rhizomorph (05/09/21 09:41 PM)


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OfflineH3R371C
Stranger
Registered: 05/18/21
Posts: 2
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Rhizomorph]
    #27313232 - 05/18/21 04:00 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Every god in existence demanded sacrifice, Christian god is no different, the only difference is that Christians willingly had themselves killed in the name of Jesus... Insanity. God and the devil is the same entity. But the question is, how did this god or gods get so twisted? Well, maybe because this being is a prisoner of it's own infinite time loop which drives it insane, so it channeled all its hatred into a sub reality we call earth.


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OfflineH3R371C
Stranger
Registered: 05/18/21
Posts: 2
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Rhizomorph]
    #27313239 - 05/18/21 04:11 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

That's quite smart.


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InvisibleRhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher
Other


Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 786
Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: H3R371C]
    #27315436 - 05/19/21 06:35 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

H3R371C said:
Every god in existence demanded sacrifice, Christian god is no different, the only difference is that Christians willingly had themselves killed in the name of Jesus... Insanity. God and the devil is the same entity. But the question is, how did this god or gods get so twisted? Well, maybe because this being is a prisoner of it's own infinite time loop which drives it insane, so it channeled all its hatred into a sub reality we call earth.


"The fact that God allows evil to exist is so unforgivable, that I've decided worshipping such a God would be, just unconsciousable." "It's not God that I don't accept, Alyosha, only I most respectfully return Him the ticket." "A bad God is not only unworthy of my worship, he's also not someone I want to spend eternity with." -Ivan from the novel 'The Brothers Karamazov'

I believe there is a reason why satanists consider God evil and Satan benevolent. They've given up their ticket to heaven because they believe the Christian ticket to heaven is actually a ticket to hell. Of course this argument works both ways and is heavily woven into narratives of the Satan taking on the form of God (I.e., "And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light". [2 Corinthians 11:14]). I personally don't choose sides between Christianity and Satanism, but the exact same argument is used to defend both doctrines, illustrating a theme that I believe anyone with a well-calibrated bullshit detector should be very skeptical of.

I'm not so much aiming to criticize practicing individuals as much as I want to criticize Abrahamic religious doctrines, institutions and dogma. Spiritual growth fails when it is enforced through the cultural hegemony espoused by Abrahamic canon. My only aim is to shine light on these perceived flaws so we can build a more comprehensive spiritual intelligence.

If I'm wrong then I willfully give up (reject?) my ticket to Heaven/Hell.


--------------------

:cookiemonster: Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks:elmo:

:awesomenod: Easiest No-Pour Agar Method: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers:awesomenod:


Edited by Rhizomorph (05/19/21 06:36 PM)


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