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Offlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27295564 - 05/05/21 01:58 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

AstraZeneca sells their vaccine for $2.50 a shot. That’s the same as their cost to make the vaccine.

Take away IP protection and these companies will just get out of the business.

I’ll ask this again. Why isnt the world making the vaccines that have been offered without patent protection?


Edited by koods (05/05/21 02:04 PM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods] * 1
    #27295573 - 05/05/21 02:03 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Yes. And if all Eli Lilly or Astra Zeneca sold was heroin they wouldn’t be viewed as a legitimate provider of services for the public, and societies may do something rash like nationalize medicine production.

Why do you think Exxon pours millions into showing us commercials about their green algae technology? Or the pentagon working to solve climate change?

They really got you whipped into believing THEY have the power and that YOU need to appease them. Vaccines are the necessary evil for these companies to continue on unabated, they’re not going to abandon them no matter how many times they’re taxed or regulated for it.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods] * 1
    #27295577 - 05/05/21 02:06 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
AstraZeneca sells their vaccine for $2.50 a shot. That’s the same as their cost to make the vaccine.

Take away IP protection and these companies will just get out of the business.




Yeah just like child labor laws ruined the economy. The EPA destroyed industry. The SEC destroyed finance.

As many times as we’ve been industrialists use this argument, you still buy it lol

No, the capitalist class will not just pack up their toys and go home, because governments will just seize their toys, and their homes. Providing some modicum of public service is what keeps this Randian fiction going: that the rich and mighty bestow gifts upon and we should be merciful for it. Astra Zeneca could go bankrupt tomorrow and nothing of value would be lost.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27295578 - 05/05/21 02:06 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Taxing and regulating isn’t the problem. Taking away the control they have over their own products is.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27295583 - 05/05/21 02:09 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

koods said:
AstraZeneca sells their vaccine for $2.50 a shot. That’s the same as their cost to make the vaccine.

Take away IP protection and these companies will just get out of the business.




Yeah just like child labor laws ruined the economy. The EPA destroyed industry. The SEC destroyed finance.

As many times as we’ve been industrialists use this argument, you still buy it lol




None of this has anything to do with patent protection.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27295591 - 05/05/21 02:13 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I’ll ask this again. Why isnt the world making the vaccines that have been offered without patent protection?




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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27295596 - 05/05/21 02:17 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

So what?

AZ control of their own property

Saving millions of people’s lives


Pick one.





Now obviously there’s some sliding scale here. It would be much harder to argue that we should take away people’s summer homes and give them to homeless people, but I think the moral underpinnings of choosing to save millions of lives over protecting corporate profits is pretty clear cut.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27295598 - 05/05/21 02:19 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Patents aren’t the problem. Finding competent and capable manufacturers is the problem. I’m sorry this doesn’t fit your ideological fantasy, but these are the facts.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27295600 - 05/05/21 02:19 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

koods said:
AstraZeneca sells their vaccine for $2.50 a shot. That’s the same as their cost to make the vaccine.

Take away IP protection and these companies will just get out of the business.




Yeah just like child labor laws ruined the economy. The EPA destroyed industry. The SEC destroyed finance.

As many times as we’ve been industrialists use this argument, you still buy it lol




None of this has anything to do with patent protection.




Yeah it’s almost like the lobbyist arguments are regurgitated horseshit.

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

koods said:
I’ll ask this again. Why isnt the world making the vaccines that have been offered without patent protection?







Why do you think? Is it a secret global Russian scheme to make western pharmaceutical companies look bad?


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27295606 - 05/05/21 02:24 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Patents aren’t the problem. Finding competent and capable manufacturers is the problem. I’m sorry this doesn’t fit your ideological fantasy, but these are the facts.




No they aren’t.

https://theintercept.com/2021/04/29/covid-vaccine-factory-production-ip/


Again, you’re so naive you think that the richest people in the world actually DO want to help the poorer peoples of the world, at a direct threat to their own profits, but that it’s just not feasible. It’s just chauvinism. Cuba developed their own vaccine despite a near century long economic siege by the US. What does it say about you that you’re more likely to believe that the global south is too stupid to manufacture a vaccine rather than that the pharmaceutical corporations are looking out for their profits? Keep in mind you’ve already admitted that a threat to their vaccine IP would result in retaliation. Is this aggressive lobbying campaign (with the help of other obscenely rich people like bill gates for some reason) not that? Lol


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #27295608 - 05/05/21 02:26 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

I’m sure you think we’re trying to stay in Afghanistan because we care deeply about women’s rights.

Also we’re sanctioning China because we care about Muslims.

Also we’re cutting taxes on the rich because we care about small businesses.


It just so happens that rich people think that the best way to help poor people is to help rich people. Crazy!


How did the “I’m a warren fan and actually left of Bernie on most issues” guy wind up arguing to the right of Joe Biden on trade lol. Wave as the right wing Democratic Party passes on your left.


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Edited by The Ecstatic (05/05/21 02:33 PM)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27295614 - 05/05/21 02:33 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

You want to make this about grand overarching themes of capitalism and imperialism. All I’m saying is getting rid of IP protection on covid vaccines won’t solve anything, and will create other problems. I’m not interested in your ideological problems


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27295622 - 05/05/21 02:37 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Lemme guess. The intercept found a widget maker in baku who says he can retrofit and make 1,00,000 doses a day.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27295624 - 05/05/21 02:39 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

I’m not making it about those things it is those things.

And it’s pretty clear you’re not interested in those problems.

But hey when the next pandemic rolls around in 2165 and the same corporations are dictating global policy, I’ll be sure I let you know that you are once again wrong.

If this wasn’t such a clear cut moral decision then the Biden administration wouldn’t have been pressured into waiving IP rights. But with you it’s always some “be careful what you wish for” nonsense like Biden capitulating and saving millions of lives will be a bad thing. I just think you don’t like being wrong, which must be very hard for someone like you.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27295760 - 05/05/21 04:18 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

I don't understand why developed nations can't put forward some $$ to pay these companies to use their property?

There's always enough money for bullets, it's time to find some for vaccines.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27295786 - 05/05/21 04:35 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

There’s this assumption that these companies are jut sitting on their asses not trying to make as much vaccines as possible. All these companies are scouting the world looking for production sites.

Vaccine production is extremely difficult. It is done in perfectly sterile environments. You can’t just convert a warehouse to make vaccines. 🤦‍♂️


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (05/05/21 04:37 PM)


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27295820 - 05/05/21 04:56 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Unfortunately that makes sense.
If a half arsed version was produced the fallout would discourage people getting the vaccine I'm guessing?
The EU has temporarily blocked sending the AZ vaccine to Aus as there are other countries that are in worse shape... and I'm fine with that. Like I'm going to get jabbed but other countries should go first.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27296098 - 05/05/21 07:42 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
There’s this assumption that these companies are jut sitting on their asses not trying to make as much vaccines as possible. All these companies are scouting the world looking for production sites.

Vaccine production is extremely difficult. It is done in perfectly sterile environments. You can’t just convert a warehouse to make vaccines. 🤦‍♂️




Just spent the last two pages swearing that these companies are about to give up on vaccines entirely because of what shitty returns they generate, and whaddya know now you’re arguing the opposite.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #27296100 - 05/05/21 07:45 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
I don't understand why developed nations can't put forward some $$ to pay these companies to use their property?

There's always enough money for bullets, it's time to find some for vaccines.




It would cost about $25B to vaccinate the world, we could cover that in the US alone with a one time wealth tax. Bill Gates, who’s inserted himself in this debate, ostensibly because he cares deeply about the most efficient way to vaccinate people, could fund it himself. He is the amaze balls Good Billionaire after all.

But yeah I agree. Not only is it the right thing to do, and good PR, but it’s a biological necessity if we want to stop the pandemic. We could fund it with just the INCREASE in the new Biden defense budget.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27296883 - 05/06/21 11:08 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

koods said:
There’s this assumption that these companies are jut sitting on their asses not trying to make as much vaccines as possible. All these companies are scouting the world looking for production sites.

Vaccine production is extremely difficult. It is done in perfectly sterile environments. You can’t just convert a warehouse to make vaccines. 🤦‍♂️




Just spent the last two pages swearing that these companies are about to give up on vaccines entirely because of what shitty returns they generate, and whaddya know now you’re arguing the opposite.



How is that the opposite?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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