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Offlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: TinyBee] * 1
    #27287460 - 04/30/21 06:38 AM (9 days, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

TinyBee said:
I actually have a question about Covid vaccines.

Viruses, as we all know, mutate.  So even though the vaccines might work against the strain that is currently going around, they might become totally ineffective against the new strain that might arise in the future.  So, does this mean scientists have to keep rolling out vaccines?  I don't get it.




Every person infected increases the chance of mutation. That’s why everyone needs to be vaccinated


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OfflineTinyBee
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27287702 - 04/30/21 12:27 PM (8 days, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

TinyBee said:
I actually have a question about Covid vaccines.

Viruses, as we all know, mutate.  So even though the vaccines might work against the strain that is currently going around, they might become totally ineffective against the new strain that might arise in the future.  So, does this mean scientists have to keep rolling out vaccines?  I don't get it.




Every person infected increases the chance of mutation. That’s why everyone needs to be vaccinated




I guess.  But I don't think it's possible to vaccinate everybody unless they make it mandatory, which I don't think will happen.  So, we only vaccinate some of the population but not all, and this gives the virus plenty of chance to mutate.  It just seems to me that our current vaccination efforts are in vain.  A fool's errand, if you will.


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: TinyBee]
    #27287751 - 04/30/21 01:08 PM (8 days, 20 hours ago)

Vaccines rely on minimum vaccination thresholds, not 100% vaccination rates. Its a statistics thing. Once you reach a threshold percentage vaccinated, the opportunities for a given virus to find a suitable host dwindle. It becomes very unlikely and without hosts, virus can't reproduce. They've never vaccinated literally everyone in the world for any virus, ever. Not small pox or polio or any of them. Clearly, however, vaccines have seriously hampered or even eradicated disease before so, no, your hypothesis is not supported by evidence.


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OfflineTinyBee
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #27287754 - 04/30/21 01:11 PM (8 days, 20 hours ago)

I see.  Thanks for bringing that to my attention.  Certainly wasn't aware of it.


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: TinyBee]
    #27287769 - 04/30/21 01:32 PM (8 days, 20 hours ago)

It's also important to note that infection is not an all of nothing proposition. You can inhale many virus particles without actually becoming infected because not all virus are viable in the first place and like seeds, they won't all get the correct conditions to be infectious. This means that the number of individual virus particles you are exposed to greatly influences your likelihood of infection. In a vaccinated person, many virus will be inhibited by antibodies and unable to reproduce. This means that even if the person has some infected cells, they are less likely to spread the virus to others because they have fewer virus particles to shed. Does this mean that vaccinated people can't possibly spread the rona? probably not, but, as we've already covered, the goal is to reduce the rate of infection below the threshold for effective reproduction.


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #27287781 - 04/30/21 01:47 PM (8 days, 19 hours ago)

With covid you probably need to be exposed to 50,000 viruses to actually have a decent chance of being infected without a vaccine. Vaccinated people that number is closer to a million, because the immune system will take out most of them.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27287787 - 04/30/21 01:52 PM (8 days, 19 hours ago)

I mentioned this before. I was talking to sheekle and he had a serious exposure to a person who got sick while they were hanging out and they were staying at his house. He had gotten the J&J less than two weeks earlier and despite not having the benefit of the full two weeks he hasn’t gotten sick and tested negative yesterday.


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OfflineTinyBee
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27287860 - 04/30/21 03:19 PM (8 days, 18 hours ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
It's also important to note that infection is not an all of nothing proposition. You can inhale many virus particles without actually becoming infected because not all virus are viable in the first place and like seeds, they won't all get the correct conditions to be infectious. This means that the number of individual virus particles you are exposed to greatly influences your likelihood of infection. In a vaccinated person, many virus will be inhibited by antibodies and unable to reproduce. This means that even if the person has some infected cells, they are less likely to spread the virus to others because they have fewer virus particles to shed. Does this mean that vaccinated people can't possibly spread the rona? probably not, but, as we've already covered, the goal is to reduce the rate of infection below the threshold for effective reproduction.




Are you a biology major, ball?  You sound like one.  Either that or you are well-read.


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InvisibleCrazy_Horse
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27287959 - 04/30/21 04:39 PM (8 days, 16 hours ago)

Sheekle is my hero.


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: TinyBee]
    #27288005 - 04/30/21 05:15 PM (8 days, 16 hours ago)

No. I'm just a guy.
I'm also not a medical professional of any kind and nothing I say about any of this should be taken as medical advice.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27293735 - 05/04/21 12:34 PM (4 days, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

TinyBee said:
I actually have a question about Covid vaccines.

Viruses, as we all know, mutate.  So even though the vaccines might work against the strain that is currently going around, they might become totally ineffective against the new strain that might arise in the future.  So, does this mean scientists have to keep rolling out vaccines?  I don't get it.




Every person infected increases the chance of mutation. That’s why everyone needs to be vaccinated




Everyone? Or just US citizens?

FDR 2.0 still refusing to lift the IP regime, making it next to impossible to vaccinate the global south. But are those browns really worth the quarterly profits of Astra Zeneca? Who can say


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27293777 - 05/04/21 12:56 PM (4 days, 20 hours ago)

FDR 2.0 LOL


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27293819 - 05/04/21 01:18 PM (4 days, 20 hours ago)

AstraZenecas licensing agreement requires them to sell the vaccine at cost until the pandemic is declared over. This is by far the best way to do this. Generic vaccines will not get approved or even attempted and nobody has the facilities to make them

There are plenty of vaccine candidates that are being given away to anyone who is willing to make them. There is no capacity to do so. Oxford tried to give away their vaccine. Nobody is willing to make a vaccine if they take all the risk then someone takes their patent away. Stop crying about patents. Vaccines can be developed by high school students. The difficulty is making them in large qualities.


Edited by koods (05/04/21 01:26 PM)


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27293849 - 05/04/21 01:33 PM (4 days, 20 hours ago)

The whole “brown people are too dumb to manufacture it anyway” argument has been thoroughly debunked.

https://theintercept.com/2021/04/29/covid-vaccine-factory-production-ip/

The simplest explanation (that the pharmaceutical companies have lobbied Western governments and the WTO to keep IP laws intact, in order to protect pharma profits and maintain leverage over under-vaccinated countries) is right there.

It’s so funny to me that “we can’t upset the profit motive” is seen as wholly legitimate, even when it comes to something like prolonging and exacerbating a global pandemic.  There’s no conceivable situation where the government would intervene to help people. If it’s gonna end up costing some people (even if they’re already obscenely rich) some money it’s a non-starter.


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Edited by The Ecstatic (05/04/21 02:02 PM)


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27293886 - 05/04/21 01:55 PM (4 days, 19 hours ago)

So far the government have mainly been handling it well (at least once we got rid of Trump) and footing the bill, but you know Pharm is forming strategies on how they can increase profits on this, particularly since it looks like we will have to keep getting vaccinated.

Two people at my bar are sick right now. One of them got one shot and I'm not sure how she's doing. The other guy is pretty sick.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27293897 - 05/04/21 02:02 PM (4 days, 19 hours ago)

The vaccine rollout in the West was generally good, once we get our share we tend to not give a fuck what happens after that. That’s the whole idea behind living in the first world, we get a higher standard and as such are less likely to upset that balance.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27294178 - 05/04/21 05:14 PM (4 days, 16 hours ago)

We love to throw money at things. Just don't mention the "s" word.


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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: christopera]
    #27294256 - 05/04/21 06:12 PM (4 days, 15 hours ago)

Allowing anyone to make a particular vaccine is just a disaster waiting to happen. I cannot imagine a more sketchy product than a knockoff vaccine.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27294339 - 05/04/21 07:00 PM (4 days, 14 hours ago)

Luckily it doesn’t affect you at all! And millions of people would rather their lives be saved by generic medication than die.


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Offlinezoidbergo
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
    #27294384 - 05/04/21 07:29 PM (4 days, 14 hours ago)

It's the same thing as buying store brand aspirin instead of Bayer. Any vaccines made will still have to meet all of the relevant safety standards of whatever nation they will be distributed in.

The concern is that, for a pharma company, why invest billions in drug/vaccine development if they'll have to share the profits of a miraculous discovery with everyone else? They wouldn't be able to recoup the costs of their investment if they couldn't patent their discoveries. Unfortunately we don't have an economic system that incentivizes providing medicine to those who need it, or literally anything else, over profit.


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General Interest >> Political Discussion

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