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OfflineNajxwiinymuuxy
Teonanacani

Registered: 03/30/21
Posts: 41
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones
    #27293136 - 05/03/21 10:02 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Hello dear mushrom friends. I'm very thankful in how you have helped me with my previous thread, where most of my poor inoc grain jars seemed contaminated.

These ones I inoculated directly from what is supposed to be clean LC of Panaeolus Cambodginiensis Goliath, and to me they seem healthy, very cottony fluffy, but still some have what seem quite flat strange looking mycelium. What do you think? Some are photos of different parts of one jar, so in the case a part seems healthy and the other not, would it be worth it trying to get them into the bulk?

Many many thanks, I'm learning a lot here, and this is a passion for me now!

Blessings.











































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OfflineNajxwiinymuuxy
Teonanacani

Registered: 03/30/21
Posts: 41
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: Najxwiinymuuxy]
    #27298014 - 05/07/21 02:24 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Anyone, something?
I don't mean to take your time, I'm just learning and have no other teachers than the mushrooms themselves and the masters like you. Afterall I will learn empirically, by experience, but could really benefit with some appreciations or commentaries :wink:

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InvisibleAshtray161
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Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: Najxwiinymuuxy] * 2
    #27298023 - 05/07/21 02:38 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

i think people might not be answering because your pics exploded their screens into a thousand pieces and theyre out buying a new phone rn.


--------------------
(You Know What Time It Is)
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Please, be an adult. Get vaccinated. Dont use psychedelics as an excuse. Dont come at me with some hippy dippy nonsense, GO GET VACCINATED.
Be Gay, Do Crime 161 1312

Edited by Ashtray161 (05/07/21 02:39 AM)

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InvisibleWyoMX
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Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: Ashtray161]
    #27298032 - 05/07/21 03:04 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

D,E,M, and N are all really creamy which is indicative of bacteria. I'm not really a pan grower so won't be much help otherwise but those 4 probably won't do you good. Also whats up with your grain being pushed up to the lids or on the side of the jar leaving big gaps on the sides or bottom? Probably not causing your problems but is there a reason there like that?

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OfflineNajxwiinymuuxy
Teonanacani

Registered: 03/30/21
Posts: 41
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: Ashtray161]
    #27298674 - 05/07/21 01:14 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, I didn't mean to explode the people's screens I just wanted to provide with high resolution images and I didn't find a way to make them appear smaller so then people could make them larger, not really my specialization, please pardon me if I'm bothering, that is not my intention.

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Offlinetiptrippy
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Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: Najxwiinymuuxy]
    #27298680 - 05/07/21 01:18 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

If you really want to use grain spawn then the best way for me to help you is to tell you to start fresh. Stick with one type of grain. WBS, Rye, oats, whichever you prefer. Dont mix any extra shit in the jars with your grain. Just use straight grain. You can use a syringe for inoculation if you must but your chances of getting good clean growth are very slim. Put some on agar first and do a couple transfers until you get a clean dish. Send that agar to grain when ready. Wait for colonization.

While they are colonizing, make up 4qts of manure/straw mixture and pasteurize it. After the jar is colonized, spawn it to your sub mix and let it recover for about 5 days. 1 jar of spawn to 4-5qts of substrate is all you need.

You said you used clean LC. Is it actually LC or is it just a spore syringe? Did you test it on agar first? How do you know it's clean?

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OfflineNajxwiinymuuxy
Teonanacani

Registered: 03/30/21
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Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: WyoMX]
    #27299098 - 05/07/21 06:18 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I see, I see. I've been thinking about being infected with bacteria, but I just wonder how the hell so much jars, and from different sources, with all the hygiene measures could catch the same "flat mycelium looking bacteria"... crazy... Thank you very much for taking the time friend, I'll take your advice seriously! And I promise I will buy you a new phone if I just made your screen to "explode into a thousand pieces" with my huge photos :grin: lol... Really sorry for that, I thought to post high res pictures would be the best, and I couldn't make them appear less huge as thumbnails.

Blessings.

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OfflineNajxwiinymuuxy
Teonanacani

Registered: 03/30/21
Posts: 41
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Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: tiptrippy]
    #27299155 - 05/07/21 06:49 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Hey friend, thank you very much for your kind and dedicated answer, it is really valuable.

I had the Panaeolus Cambodginiensis Goliath in LC, and then inoculated 8, 450 ml jars with two 10 ml syringes (the jars you're seeing here), but kept a little of the solution to inoculate some agar dishes. All the agar dishes colonized with beautiful clean pan mycelium (I even made some transfers of what looked the best tissue, and also grown really clean and pretty), that is where I started the second spawn inoculation from (you can see the pics of this in my other thread, and they do seem more contaminated than these first ones I made with the LC directly). In one of those beautiful colonized agar Petri dishes, I made an agar slurry with the needle technique of crumble or chop off the mycelium in the agar directly with the sterilized needle and sterile water.

Then I inoculated my 8, 450 ml jars... As I told, you can see that batch here: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27291228.

I've been using a reccomended mix of 75% millet and 25% rye (in some of the jars I mixed a little manure, but I noted that where there was too much manure there was less growth, so I'm saving manure for the bulk. Do you think I must use just millet or just rye?
Maybe one error was to put some perlite at the bottom (very thin layer), and a little vermiculite on top, supposedly for protecting against contams... the thing (and I think that was a big error), is that I put the jars lying on their sides instead of straight (I read this could help colonize faster and better, blabla... but at the end I think it even destroyed the function of the protective layer of verm I've put, well if that's even worth it).

Do you reccomend that I inoculate the jars directly with a piece of mycelium in agar, better than the slurry?? (I have an still airbox, do not have access to those pretty and professional clean air flows) I made the slurry because I considered that not opening the sterilized jar and instead using the self healing high temp. injection ports would be better... but that was just me, maybe that was not the best at all.

Thanks a lot for the instructions for the bulk substrate, very simplified and clear.

So that's the story in general terms... and as i told you, I may not have had the totally clean solution in the liquid culture, but I did grow some on agar, very pure and beautiful white pan mycelium, but exactly those ones from where I made the slurry were the ones that seem got more bacteria contaminated, if you want take a look.

Also, I've follow instructions of having the cultives at 28 Celsius, for the agar work and grain spawning), and I'm planning to cut down the heat to 24-26 for fruiting... Those have been advices I've haf from growers, but I think here there might be more specialized and knowledgeable, experienced growers, as you may be, so any advice on to that would be awesome. I really want to grow those trays full of big healthy pretty pans some day... :cool:

Many thanks again my friend, this really helps me to get better at this new job/hobby that really makes me passionate and love it, but am having a hard time getting right, clean, beautiful results... I'm learning after all, that is why the help of people with experience like you is so very vital and important, that and the direct field, empyrical experience.

🙏🏽✨🙏🏽✨🙏🏽
Greetings and Blessings.

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OfflineNajxwiinymuuxy
Teonanacani

Registered: 03/30/21
Posts: 41
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: WyoMX]
    #27299165 - 05/07/21 06:53 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Problem is that those that have that creamy weird looking "mycelium" or bacteria , also have the good cottony mycelium on the other site, so wll try to rescue what I can.

They do not seem very even and with parts empty, but that is because I put the jars laying on their sides instead of as they should normally be. That I did because I read it was better for colonizing and bla bla bla... but now I see it might not be so good to do that :frown:

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Offlinetiptrippy
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Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: Najxwiinymuuxy] * 1
    #27299265 - 05/07/21 08:03 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Ok we will get this figured out. You have a pressure cooker right? How are you sterilizing your grain?

Do you have pictures of the agar dishes?
Sounds like you are using a still air box. Are you confident in your sterile technique?
A lot of growers here avoid injection ports because they can be an extra contamination vector.

I recommend trying this.
1qt only rye grain
Inoculate with agar wedge by opening lid and dropping in.
Leave jar on shelf standing upright to colonize.

My guess is that either your LC was dirty, your grain was not sterilized properly, or you somehow got contamination during inoculation

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OfflineNajxwiinymuuxy
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Registered: 03/30/21
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Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: tiptrippy]
    #27299603 - 05/08/21 03:01 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Hello brother and thanks again.

Quote:

Ok we will get this figured out. You have a pressure cooker right? How are you sterilizing your grain?




Sure a very nice Presto with manometer and everything, really cool PC. I sterilize the grain in 450 ml jars, with a hole in the middle of the lids filled with polyfill as filter and two self healing injecting ports at each side. I sterilize for 1 hour and a half at 15 PSI.
Then I incubate the jars in a box-tray with a lid at 28°C (they have nice ismart heating reptile pads below, you can regulate the intensity and they don't rise temperature like crazy as with other devices, and I have the jars separated from direct contact with the box's surface).

Quote:

Do you have pictures of the agar dishes?



Sure, I'll show you, these are the only two agar dishes left of the original Goliath LC I told you I cultivated some drops on agar (and the other was probably now all lost into those bacteria contaminated jars); plan to use them tomorrow to inoculate other Petri dishes and do some nice selection and cleaning as needed. As you can see they seem clean and pretty (pardon the quality and if there cannot be seen clearer, I just took them out of their package at the veggies drawer in the fridge --they're well protected and isolated, or so I think), although I'm not really sure what shape or texture of mycelium for panaeolus I should look for to be the best.. There's so much information, sometimes conradicting. I'm not supposed to expect or want rhizomorphic mycelium for pans, there is this more fluffy mycelium, but within this kind of mycelium what variations should I look for and select and isolate?









What do you think?
Also, do you think sealing the Petri dishes with micropore would be a good idea? it's like I'm running out of parafilm and it's so expensive...

Quote:

Sounds like you are using a still air box. Are you confident in your sterile technique?



Yes I am. I was very confident of my sterile technique, now I'm not that much.. too many variables and ins and outs, it is difficult cerainly to work in the still air box, but I don't have other means now.

Quote:

A lot of growers here avoid injection ports because they can be an extra contamination vector.



I believe you, just by seeing your amazing trays of pans I'm sure you're fairly experimented and very good grower man... But you know others reccomend those ports... Maybe I'll avoid them then

Quote:

I recommend trying this.
1qt only rye grain
Inoculate with agar wedge by opening lid and dropping in.
Leave jar on shelf standing upright to colonize.




So millet maybe is not a good idea, nether putting the jars laying on their sides, always standing upright, but occasional shaking may be ok, right?
I have easier access to rye grass seeds, but not rye berries, is that ok?
So you use just rye in you amazing growings?

And, so making the agar slurry you don't reccomend.. better open the lids of the jars and drop the agar wedge directly, inside still air box would be better... I was pretty afraid of doing this because I thought I would allow for more contamination, but now I see my results and my jars are full of bacteria... I think I'll do as you say then bro!

Quote:

My guess is that either your LC was dirty, your grain was not sterilized properly, or you somehow got contamination during inoculation




I don't think about the LC being dirty as you can see how clean the droplets reproduced in the agar are... but if you think so, it well may be and i just had luck with the drops cultivated in the agar.
What unproper ways of sterilizing the grain could you see? as i told you I have a good PC and do the whole hour and a half process at 15 PSI :crazy:
May have gotten that contamination during inoculation but I ask myself the same question.. why? I took all the measures, still airbox, lots of lysol around, gloves, mask, constant sterilization of hands and arms with alcohol... and what does intrigue me is that I didn't get any other contaminants, as that green mold, or wetspot or others, just that flat creamy of what it seems to be bacteria... pretty intriguing.

Many thanks, for real, colaborations as yours really make the difference, it is great you share your expertise give advice and your observations.

Hope we can share more later, I'm really into Pans/Copelandias (soon ago I had a Zapotalillo, huaxtecan Pan. Cyanescens sporeprint, but unfortunately all the work on agar got very contaminated and I couldn't save any even doing transfers, I think the print itself was very dirty), and other special species, as Pajaritos or Mexicana, Derrumbes (Ps. Caerulescens), Zapotecorum or Psil. Hooghshagenii, the great "Mushrooms of the Wind-Thunder and Earth Immensity" of my Mixe/Ayuujk People of Northern Oaxaca Sierra.

Wish you blessings 🙏🏾✨☯️ Have a great day!

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Invisiblemyc_ousin_vinny
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Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: Najxwiinymuuxy]
    #27299736 - 05/08/21 06:41 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Did you say you put manure in the grain jars?

Edit: That’s what I got from your post. If I misunderstood my apologies.


--------------------
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Let's stay focused on what works consistently.

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Edited by myc_ousin_vinny (05/08/21 06:45 AM)

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OfflineNajxwiinymuuxy
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Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: myc_ousin_vinny]
    #27300021 - 05/08/21 10:49 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Yep, I meant that. I's following the recipe for grain spawn in "The cultivation of Copelandia Cyanescens".. kinda... I used manure in different quantities, with just little of it I saw good colonization (before contams started), while in the jars I mixed more prepared manure because I didn't have more grain, saw little colonization.

I know, I know this is probably something very stupid or plainly ignorant, and was one of the reasons I fucked it up at last... I just PCed my 16 inoculated jars, which sadly succumbed to bacterial contamination.. But I did learn a lot, so I'm happy. I'm just starting with copelandias/panaeolus, and very much into mushroom cultivation; while I have read a bunch I'm just starting to accumulate practical-factual-empirical knowledge, so that is also why you opinions, suggestions or observations are really important and welcomed.

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Offlinetiptrippy
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Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: Najxwiinymuuxy]
    #27300064 - 05/08/21 11:27 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Hello again naj. Thank you for all the great info.

You can use any grain you wish. I have used rye and WBS. Rye grass seed will work fine just make sure whatever grain you use is properly hydrated. The important thing in my opinion is to not add any extras. Try pressure cooking your grain for 2 hours at 15psi instead of 90mins.
Pans on rye


Pans on WBS


Grain jars will colonize fine at room temperatures. Try not using the heating pad as they have a tendency to dry out the bottom of the jars. Shaking every now and then is ok.

Your agar work looks good from here. This is an example of a Panaeolus Cambodginiensis clone.

Good pan mycelium is sort of light and cottony from my experience. I don't recommend using micropore tape to wrap your dishes. You can get a roll of Saran wrap or glad plastic wrap and cut the roll into 1 inch sections and use that to wrap your dishes. Much cheaper and longer lasting than parafilm.

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Invisiblecoversall
إِنْ شَاءَ ٱللَهُ
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Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: tiptrippy]
    #27300067 - 05/08/21 11:32 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

tiptrippy said:
Hello again naj. Thank you for all the great info.

You can use any grain you wish. I have used rye and WBS. Rye grass seed will work fine just make sure whatever grain you use is properly hydrated. The important thing in my opinion is to not add any extras. Try pressure cooking your grain for 2 hours at 15psi instead of 90mins.
Pans on rye


Pans on WBS


Grain jars will colonize fine at room temperatures. Try not using the heating pad as they have a tendency to dry out the bottom of the jars. Shaking every now and then is ok.

Your agar work looks good from here. This is an example of a Panaeolus Cambodginiensis clone.

Good pan mycelium is sort of light and cottony from my experience. I don't recommend using micropore tape to wrap your dishes. You can get a roll of Saran wrap or glad plastic wrap and cut the roll into 1 inch sections and use that to wrap your dishes. Much cheaper and longer lasting than parafilm.




are those cyans or cambos in those jars trippy?

Isn't goliath a cambo? ime cambos have thicker creamier myc than cyans?


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..:: E V E R Y  ::..

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..:: How I Panaeolus. From Agar to Tea ::..

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Offlinetiptrippy
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Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: coversall]
    #27300076 - 05/08/21 11:39 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Hey coversall! All of those examples are jambos

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Invisiblecoversall
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Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: tiptrippy]
    #27300189 - 05/08/21 01:11 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

tiptrippy said:
Hey coversall! All of those examples are jambos




Ah yeah now I see it. :rolleyes: I should really read things more carefully.


--------------------

..:: E V E R Y  ::..

..:: New? Start here. ::..
..:: How I Panaeolus. From Agar to Tea ::..

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OfflineNajxwiinymuuxy
Teonanacani

Registered: 03/30/21
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Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: tiptrippy]
    #27302196 - 05/09/21 10:11 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Hi Trippy!
Thanks to you for sharing your knowledge and observations, as well as all the photos, I've really learned a lot, and the information you've provided had been more than welcome in the crytical situation I was (well, not me exactly but my poor "wannabe mushies" getting contaminated in their jars).
As I wrote before, I PCed all my jars yesterday as in the last 2 days while I's trying to decide how much was contamination and how much healthy spawn it all or most became contaminatd, so hasta luego cocodrilo and a new beginning.

Yesterday, also I did some transfers of one of those healthy mycelium plates in agar you saw to other 7  agar dishes (I prepared like 20 agar Petri dishes, but just used 7 to be certain first how good this transfers become and if I need to do more cleansing work I have more dishes ready).
As I was already very wary of bacteria because of this last experience, I used the recipe of "peroxide agar" (like 5 ml of H2O2 per litre of agar). I know many disagree with using peroxide, but thought that it would be a good idea to protect the agar work with mycelium (not spores)... was kinda worried I fucked it up again and no mycelium would grow on agar, but I've checked today and the agar colonization has already began, and seems very clean.

This time I put more attention in the work at the still air box anyway, so maybe the peroxide was not needed.. anyway, I will just use it for mycelium work and cloning, and prepare regular agar for spore work.

As for the grain I'll use later, yes I learned the lesson, I will not add any extras this time, I really think that perlite and vermiculite did more harm than good.

Do you  think this is correct procedure?: I let the rye and millet for 24 hours in water, after cleaning them, like get out all the grains that float, and rinse like 6 times. Will this let the grains nicely hydrated? I've also read that that way some very resistant spores have chance  to germinate and so will be sterilized in the PC later, contrary that if you don't let the grain soak. I do this and then let dry for an hour or so, sometimes with a low fan in the garden, spreaded in a kind of mesh in the sun (dry until I can grab a handful of grain and very little remains over my hands-skin, like they sure feel fresh but not really damp). And then do not add more water later... is this ok? Or I should hydrate more? Also I've seen different approaches, like some cook the grain, boil it for like 10-20 minutes even if it has been properly soaked.. I have just poured it in boilng water for 10 minutes (with the heat off), but maybe this is not necessary or even counterproductive... what do you think?

I will then PC my jars for 2 hours instead of 90 minutes! It seems the extra half an hour makes a difference!

You pans colonizing grain look really nice, thanks for sharing, I have now a better idea of how should they look and how shouldn't.

So do you think making the agar myc slurry with malt and sugar sterile water (so to make a kind of Slurry-LC, so the mycelium I draw inbto the solution may colonize heavily water) would be source of more problems and contaminations? Better to take 2 or 3 chunks directly from the agar and put em with tweezers over the grain then. I'm just wondering because I didn't do this before because I thought it would take ages to colonize and get contaminated, but they did get contaminated and not colonized as well with the slurry...
But hey bro, I will follow your suggestions, just by seeing the trays you grow of pans I get sooo impressed! Those look wonderful, beautiful and vast!
Then you don't use any heat source? What is the normal temperature range in where you live? and how much does it takes to colonize and fruit without raising temp? Also not using any heat helps save some money!

What do you think of a safe, regulating heating pad under a tub with water and perlite in the bottom (also air pump) where a tray is put over, that's how I've been making my chambers, but still haven't tested them properly. I thought that the water and perlite will distribute the heat without it drying the spawn/bulk or mushies... But anyway I'll try not to use heat, if you can get those amazing crops without artificial heat, then I should be able!


I tried to use saran wraps to wrap my dishes, and did wrapped some, but I felt I was doing a mess man! as I couldn't cut really well the saran as it gets so damn stuck and wrapped into itself... I ending using double micropore wrapping in like 3 dishes, but I will try to do the saran work better.

Thanks again for everything! I'll be sharing the results of my renewed and refined work, according to all the great advice soon!

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InvisibleRenaissance-Man
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Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: tiptrippy]
    #27306292 - 05/12/21 08:09 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Hey Tiptrippy, I was hoping to get some feed back from you on a newb's first attempt at a G2G transfer....
Someone first took an A.P.E v1.0 MSS to Agar with varying results. One of the clean plates were put to a quart jar of rye berries and allowed to colonize completely.
That jar of rye was then used to inoculate 10 quart jars of WBS.
These photos are 4 going on 5 days in....
Just wanted to know you opinion on appearance and health?
And say if 2/3 of a jar were completely colonized and the bottom third stalled/Contam'd...could the upper portion of that jar be put to Agar and cleaned up? Or maybe spawned to an outdoor bulk bed?
These are 4 different jars.
Any advice or knowledge is greatly appreciated!


--------------------
Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est...

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Offlinetiptrippy
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Re: Another batch of Panaeolus Goliath.. Are these healthy? would be amazing to know yer points of view on these ones [Re: Renaissance-Man]
    #27306426 - 05/12/21 11:03 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

All 4 jars look like the grain at the bottom is slightly wet and maybe bacterial. I would give them all a shake and see what they look like in another 5 days. If they don't recover nicely then yes you can fruit them from the jar or you can outdoor grow with them. And yes you can also take some of those grains back to agar to try and clean it up more.

And I am by no means a master cultivator here just so we are clear. My registration date is truly the beginning of my cultivation experience

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