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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meaning of meditation and progress towards liberation [Re: Samantabhadra]
    #27311300 - 05/16/21 02:42 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Samantabhadra said:
...
Meditation can be a wonderful practice but doing so with a goal in mind is counter to being truly in tune with the moment...




if you have a goal in mind, then you are meditating on a goal - this eventually gets put aside in order to be with the moment or be with the breath, or whatever the practice is.

there is no shame in being deluded most of the time. that is the nature of samsara.
meditation -being in the moment- is the best medicine for samsara.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meaning of meditation and progress towards liberation [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27313490 - 05/18/21 09:05 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

you have to make a decision about all fields there will be in your life at as early a time as possible
something like that they will be of as high a quality as possible


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meaning of meditation and progress towards liberation [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27313491 - 05/18/21 09:06 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

there is the mental item of all fields of your life like a thought and you make a bent in it like with an intent
it's very important


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meaning of meditation and progress towards liberation [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27313494 - 05/18/21 09:07 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

you can feel it if it feels there will be that field in your life while sitting from for example a minutes meditation sit
and if not make it appear think about then make the decision


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meaning of meditation and progress towards liberation [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27313536 - 05/18/21 09:26 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

to me it was like it turned on a signal in me where everything that occurs in me action mental things etc. get pointed towards something of a higher quality


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meaning of meditation and progress towards liberation [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27313561 - 05/18/21 09:46 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

good orientation happening in these phrases.

it's about developing calm -
about returning to developing calm as distractions arise.
nothing needs to be added.


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OfflineVajrabhairava
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Re: meaning of meditation and progress towards liberation [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27318287 - 05/22/21 05:13 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

It would seem to me if you think you are taking a step towards liberation you are kind of going in the wrong direction.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meaning of meditation and progress towards liberation [Re: Vajrabhairava]
    #27318409 - 05/22/21 07:32 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

what seems the right direction to you?


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meaning of meditation and progress towards liberation [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27319739 - 05/23/21 09:15 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

after 2 or 3 thousand hours you become a sotapannah and your mind is so ridded of mental disturbances that you get closer to the middle way
I think they are also called psychic annoyances
it is big when it happens

its a long time but afterwards when you look back on it is is small compared to the benefit after
there is a big benefit every day after
every minute
every hour

benefit of meditation is threefold
there is one hour gives a progress to liberation
every hour you learn the real meaning of your life better
all the time you sit you learn your mind to know better

and in a way double because changes manifest much later
too

it is very much as you think before you meditate and before the 2 or 3 thousand hours it seems like with that amount mind will be ridded so much of weeds that this happens
or not and you have to do it to understand it...

Edited by Ferdinando (05/24/21 07:44 AM)

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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meaning of meditation and progress towards liberation [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27319741 - 05/23/21 09:16 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

the right direction might be a less is more things
more heavenly action


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meaning of meditation and progress towards liberation [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27319743 - 05/23/21 09:21 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

I think there should both be the teaching that one becomes a sotapannah after 2 or 3 thousand hours and that one gets closer to the middle way after 2 or 3 thousand hours so one can understand it without buddhist framework which not everyone believes with the other teaching its a little like yeah but does sotapannah exist so maybe not after 2 or 3 thousand hours one gets closer to the middle way with a cleanly psychological and meditation and meditation amount and extent and extent of ridding weeds it is easier to understand


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meaning of meditation and progress towards liberation [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27319793 - 05/23/21 10:33 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

after you stop totaling things up, you just do what you might do anyway, and it's good.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: meaning of meditation and progress towards liberation [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27319816 - 05/23/21 11:07 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

something told me you would say something that would cheer me up


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meaning of meditation and progress towards liberation [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27319820 - 05/23/21 11:09 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

magic


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: meaning of meditation and progress towards liberation [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #27323132 - 05/25/21 08:38 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

I used to meditate 1-2 hours a day about 15 years ago and I do think I was more at peace.

Trying to get back into it now.

Ferdinando - would you say that meditators retain some kind of muscle memory which enables them to reach that peaceful state sooner?

I used to be able to reach profound oneness/peace in like 15 minutes at my peak practice. For a while I thought that reaching that Beginner Mind which is so useful for meditation would be hard to maintain now because of all my conditioning of what I think enlightenment or the goal of meditation is supposed to be/look like.. after everything I've experienced plus teachings that I've read.

Then I remember that it doesn't matter - just sit and observe and soon enough you get some distance from the monkey mind.


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: meaning of meditation and progress towards liberation [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #27348820 - 06/15/21 06:20 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Over here

The immediacy of now is already gone

Closer than close

Nothing separate

No problem because there is no one separate to be afflicted

Not better thoughts or worse thoughts

Not better situations or worse situations

What is it that creates the illusion of you? Can meditation cut through that illusion?

You know, the you that supposedly thinks thoughts or experiences this

Just look for the experiencer. What color is it? How big is it? Where is it? Who or what experiences the experiencer? Who or what experiences the experience of experiencing the experiencer?

It’s just another thought

In a flash something falls away

And moree and more gets stripped away.

That’s what meditation is like over here

Edited by Freedom (06/15/21 06:22 AM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meaning of meditation and progress towards liberation [Re: EternalCowabunga] * 1
    #27348913 - 06/15/21 08:10 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
I used to meditate 1-2 hours a day about 15 years ago and I do think I was more at peace.

Trying to get back into it now.

Ferdinando - would you say that meditators retain some kind of muscle memory which enables them to reach that peaceful state sooner?

I used to be able to reach profound oneness/peace in like 15 minutes at my peak practice. For a while I thought that reaching that Beginner Mind which is so useful for meditation would be hard to maintain now because of all my conditioning of what I think enlightenment or the goal of meditation is supposed to be/look like.. after everything I've experienced plus teachings that I've read.

Then I remember that it doesn't matter - just sit and observe and soon enough you get some distance from the monkey mind.



While I am not Ferdinando I will approach your question which I think is a meaningful one.

to an extent muscle memory is part of the practice, physically as in:
* attaining a suitable posture that will serve for the duration of sitting (or whatever posture is used - many older fold use reclining if their joints are unworkable).
and mentally as in:
* reviewing the directions for the meditation such as where is the concentration, how does it start and run, and even more importantly how does it calmly restart/recover from distraction - i.e. how does one begin again. (this is the essence of beginner's mind) the essential quality of freshness requires this, like waking up without groaning or making a show of disappointment.

otherwise if memory is used to simplify meditation, then it is automation, which is ok, but still you need the freshness to awaken, to be aware, you have to awaken from rote existence.

essentially the practice of awareness is really the non-defensive practice of relaxing and beginning again, and if there is continuum, it is the continuum of beginning ~= creation =~ being in the moment.

that practice is useful as a refuge or way of being in reality too, etc., etc.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: meaning of meditation and progress towards liberation [Re: Freedom]
    #27348926 - 06/15/21 08:22 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Freedom said:
Over here

The immediacy of now is already gone

Closer than close

Nothing separate

No problem because there is no one separate to be afflicted

Not better thoughts or worse thoughts

Not better situations or worse situations

What is it that creates the illusion of you? Can meditation cut through that illusion?

You know, the you that supposedly thinks thoughts or experiences this

Just look for the experiencer. What color is it? How big is it? Where is it? Who or what experiences the experiencer? Who or what experiences the experience of experiencing the experiencer?

It’s just another thought

In a flash something falls away

And moree and more gets stripped away.

That’s what meditation is like over here




well illusion (especially the illusion of awakening, enlightenment etc.) figures largely in the language of meditation, or the philosophy of meditation.

it is a pitfall and a cart before horse conundrum.

there is an awakening possible in seeing that meditation is thinking as are all the other formations in mind.

for me that leads to the whole
"form is emptiness and emptiness is form" which is an
affirmation of the nature of mind. and can lead to ongoing awakening with the right attitude, as well as to more illusion/delusion.

however without the relaxation practice and the beginner's mind aspect of awareness, of freshness, and of being the moment, awakening can be bypassed, and all you get is the muscle memory of it, and the delusion that you are there.


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