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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Dirty grain or pc problem?
    #27291344 - 05/03/21 02:08 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

It pains me to make this post but after 20 years of growing I'm just annoyed at my current situation.

Up until this point I've had very few issues with contamination in my grain jars but this current 10kg bag of wbs has been a total nightmare.

What I have done for years is to presoak my wbs for 24 hours, remove floaters and wash the soaked wbs multiple times to remove dirt and debris/floaters.
I allow the grain to dry and loads 500ml jars 3/4 full.
My lids are all single hole stuffed with polyfil, but I also had a large majority with ironed polyfil, which I then cover in tinfoil and pc for 1 hr.

This has worked for a long time, I always leave control jars which never get infected and often leave jars for a month to ensure my methods are clean.
This last month however everything started to change.
Control jars were showing cobweb mold after a week, maggots were appearing in clean jars which then got further infected with cobweb and trich.
Jars that didn't show any mold would later get infected after clean g2g and maggots would also appear.

I changed my pc cycle to 1.3 hours Nd simmered my grain rather than soaking, didn't help.
It's got to the point now that I am weary of starting grain because it's proving to be a time waster and I always get issues.
I have bought a new bag of wbs from a different supplier that looks much cleaner.

I'm particularly confused by the appearance of maggots and mold in pc'ed jars.

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InvisibleWyoMX
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27291347 - 05/03/21 02:17 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Super weird to see maggots in pc'd jars. They were getting in somehow is my opinion. Also I'm pretty sure most people PC there grains for 1.5 hours minimum for jars. Some do 2 hours. Also some people have problems with different batches of grain for sure. I don't use WBS but that prep sounds fine and similar to what others use besides the PC time. Could be loose poly in some of the lids allowing crap in? Just kinda guessing here.

If I was you I'd try that new bag of wbs, switch the polyfill, and PC for 1.5 hours and see how it goes.

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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: WyoMX]
    #27291349 - 05/03/21 02:26 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the input, I meant I have upped the pc time to 1.5 not 1.3 due to the issues I've been experiencing but I have done 1hr pc cycles for many years without a single problem.
This extended pc run was tested to see if it was the issue but as mentioned I still had the same problems.

For a while I also considered the poly could have been loose but the jars with ironed polyfil siliconed to the lid also had maggots appear.
As you can imagine I am starting to run out of options.

This is the last clean jar of grain I grew, dated April 21st.



Edited by DERRAYLD (05/03/21 02:38 AM)

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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27291358 - 05/03/21 03:02 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Shit man.

Was you dry wbs sealed?
Seems like some fly fukkers went in there.
Look here:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23563317


--------------------

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27291359 - 05/03/21 03:08 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

id gladly sell my soul if i could pc grain for 1hr. every.. EVERY time ive tried i get fukked. its been awhile since i tried but most us stick with 2hrs.

Quote:

DERRAYLD said:
For a while I also considered the poly could have been loose but the jars with ironed polyfil siliconed to the lid also had maggots appear.





filter failure. try wrapping the outside of the lid with clingwrap or parafilm see if that helps. people here have posted pics of mites inside agar dishes so and such. check every nook and cranny on your lids.

maggots dont just generate from nothing. or its from inadequate sterilization but id expect bacterial soup instead of bugs.

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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27291364 - 05/03/21 03:15 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I wouldn't run jars for less than 2 hours, one hour seems so little time and personally I'm certain I'd have bacterial issues from such a short cycle. There's no harm in running the PC for one more extra hour (2 hours is actually standard for jars but I usually go 2,5 hours) to make sure everything is correctly sterilized. Woul hate it if my hard work went to shit because I ran my PC for one hour less.

Having said that, given that you vented your PC correctly, a one hour cycle should be enough to kill all vegetative bacteria and mold spores, and maggots of course.

Can't help but think the maggot problem must be a filter or lid failure, they're getting in somehow. But then you said you've been doing the same for years and it's only now that you're having these issues, weird...

I use polyfill for my lids and the resulting filter is so tight that no bug could possibly enter no matter how small it is. Are you making sure your poly is tight enough?

Edited by Josex (05/03/21 03:20 AM)

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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: Josex]
    #27291367 - 05/03/21 03:19 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

The mushman bit me to it. :stoned:

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OfflineDziber
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: Josex]
    #27291369 - 05/03/21 03:21 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

My PC only goes to 12 pain of i don't do at least 2.5h pc time i always get some trich or smtn. Id say definitely up the pc time. If maggots are surviving pc it's not sterilized enough and that's all.

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: Josex]
    #27291370 - 05/03/21 03:21 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

oh yah..

flys will lay eggs in the polyfil. its a perfect environment for em. ill try to find it but im positive someone here documented such insanity.

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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: mushboy]
    #27291371 - 05/03/21 03:23 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

:ohmyfuck:

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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: Josex]
    #27291372 - 05/03/21 03:24 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I rate the polyfil may not have been tight enough but that leaves me confused regarding the siliconed ironed filters.

Next step is definitely upping the pc cycle to 2 hours as suggested.

@Mushboy - wrap them and leave them wrapped until the jars are done?

@Goatrider - no I have never stored wbs sealed, the bags already have some holes in when purchasing the bag.
I did consider the grain to be dirty and tried the various different prep methods to figure it out but I haven't been able to.

Next batch will all have solid packed polifil, 2 hour pc time and grain simmer for 30 minutes.

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27291375 - 05/03/21 03:26 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DERRAYLD said:
@Mushboy - wrap them and leave them wrapped until the jars are done?






you could:shrug: but my gut tells me flys be layin eggs in your poly or the ironed poly isnt secured as well as you think.

maybe it took 20yrs for the flys to realize the food stash on the other side of the poly. or the repeated runs?? nature..uh.. found a way.

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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27291376 - 05/03/21 03:26 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Knew there was a reason I needed to post here, I have suspected these damn gnats could get through anything.

I'll be prepping 4 jars later and will follow all of the advice provided, thanks as always folks.

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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: mushboy]
    #27291377 - 05/03/21 03:28 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

DERRAYLD said:
@Mushboy - wrap them and leave them wrapped until the jars are done?






you could:shrug: but my gut tells me flys be layin eggs in your poly or the ironed poly isnt secured as well as you think.

maybe it took 20yrs for the flys to realize the food stash on the other side of the poly.




I'm living in a new house now so I have to way up all these options and see everything as new variables to consider.

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27291378 - 05/03/21 03:30 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

switching the filter would be my first choice.

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OfflineSofaking420
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27291380 - 05/03/21 03:32 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I had a rough patch last year where eveything i pc would go funky.

Took a break and got a new pc with a pressure gauge and knock on wood, everything has been great so far.

I also use micro pore tape on top of my jars, ive never used polyfill for cult. :shrug:

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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: mushboy]
    #27291382 - 05/03/21 03:33 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
switching the filter would be my first choice.



I've removed all of the siliconed filters I ironed and will replace all of the poly and ensure everything is super tight.

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27291384 - 05/03/21 03:35 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

nah i mean like use a different filter on a few.

3 or 4 layers of mp tape would be a good enough control for a few runs.

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OfflineDziber
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: Sofaking420]
    #27291387 - 05/03/21 03:41 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I had moth infestation in my millet. They got in trough a really small hole in a 10kg bag.They have been there for maybe a week max but it was full off worms and their poop. I would boil my millet and all of the worms would die and swim on top. Trash them wash the grains let dry pc and it still worked...

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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Dirty grain or pc problem? [Re: Dziber]
    #27291390 - 05/03/21 03:44 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

thats just the bag tho. in OPs case the bugs are present post pc. that means they are getting inside the jars while sitting on a shelf.

you could of pced that millet bugs and all it would still colonize. happened to me with weevels but the grains were almost hollowed out.

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