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OfflineOttoMaddox
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Question about genetics
    #27286138 - 04/29/21 05:56 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I'm trying to get a little clarity about how mushroom genetics work.  Let me get this out of the way: My first grow is a multispore.  Next time I will work with agar.  I now get the genetic variability that is to be expected when working with multispore and understand why isolating genetics would be much more efficient. 

Okay, I started with 6 quart jars of healthy spawn.  I then went G2G with one of the jars and now have 6 more healthy jars.  Miraculously no contams.  Now, each qt jar is/will be spawned to bulk in individual 6 qt shoeboxes.  My question is, since each jar is it's own genetic stew, and each jar goes into it's own shoebox, can I expect different looking results in each shoebox?  Not that this really matters, I'm just curious.

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Offlinenormalperson
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Re: Question about genetics [Re: OttoMaddox]
    #27286706 - 04/29/21 02:43 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

no

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OfflineOttoMaddox
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Re: Question about genetics [Re: normalperson]
    #27286952 - 04/29/21 06:06 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Am I to deduce that all my jars spawned to different tubs will look more or less the same (and be the same potency)?

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Offlinenormalperson
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Re: Question about genetics [Re: OttoMaddox]
    #27287764 - 04/30/21 11:24 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

yes

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Offlinenormalperson
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Re: Question about genetics [Re: OttoMaddox]
    #27287770 - 04/30/21 11:32 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OttoMaddox said:
Am I to deduce that all my jars spawned to different tubs will look more or less the same (and be the same potency)?


you are still working with 1000s of minute genetic differences among 100s of individual fruiting bodies per shoebox.

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OfflineLand TroutM
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Re: Question about genetics [Re: normalperson]
    #27287775 - 04/30/21 11:39 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

when you make transfers and have uniform growth on a plate you can still have different expressions in your fruit.  And sometimes multispore can come out fairly uniform.  There could be a few variables, unstabalized crosses will throw out a variety of expressions from their parents.  even genetics taken from the wild can have. 
For most purposes the variation won’t make much of a difference as your building a pack they can all be mixed together.  You may get different size shape or coloration in your fruits, you might get different flush or harvest rates.  The best way to reduce variance is to clone and isolate, because uniformity is most productive.  Sometimes a multispore works just fine. 
As far as potency goes I have no help, not enough time to test them myself.

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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: Question about genetics [Re: Land Trout]
    #27287828 - 04/30/21 12:35 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

:whathesaid:

I'm not sure why normal person answered the way they did. I'd have said the opposite. You have myriad genetic possibilities within your jars. You can never be 100% confident in multispore grows. Genetics that have been worked with for generations and generations will give fairly consistent results but anything is still possible.

As stated, cloning is the way to feel confident in what you'll get out of something.

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OfflineLand TroutM
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Re: Question about genetics [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #27287855 - 04/30/21 01:12 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Example time:  I have a malabar that’s on at least a t5, the plates are fairly uniform, although not perfect, I’ve had tubs throw out three fairly different fruits, sometime I get tubs that are all uniform mutants, and even tubs of normal fruits.  They all have some common characteristics that set them apart from the others.  I have a golden teacher that from the t2 I think I could spawn 100,000 tubs and they are pretty much all the same🤷🏼‍♂️.  Then I just started on rusty whites, a fairly recent cross.  I spawned three different t2s from the same print.  Two transfers were pretty close to each other in speed and looks, fast and light tan caps with heavy purple spores.  The third was slower white and rust spores and variation in the fruits.
So it’s hard to say that by transfer x you should have something stabilized.

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OfflineOttoMaddox
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Re: Question about genetics [Re: Land Trout]
    #27288077 - 04/30/21 04:25 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I so appreciate these responses. It seems that given the myriad possibilities with multispore, there is an averaging effect that makes for consistent inconsistencies so to speak. 

This makes me wonder:  I have read about those who have experienced the dreaded "bunk batch" with minimal or no potency.  So that begs the question; what presents a higher risk of a bunk batch 1) A multispore with it's averaging effect or 2) a highly specific isolate that just happens to contain genetics for no potency?  Obviously I'm asking because I'm a total noob and just want satisfactory results (as opposed to total failure) for my first crack at it.  Indeed, I do intend on working with agar, isolating genetics and cloning next time around.

Thanks again for the response.  I am aware I have a tendency to overthink stuff 😆.

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InvisibleRoadAppleSnapple
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Re: Question about genetics [Re: OttoMaddox]
    #27288146 - 04/30/21 06:05 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

If you were to clone a few clusters... you could always bio-assay (eat) them after taking the sample to know ahead of time what you'll be growing.

Heck, with a handful of shoeboxes, take a clone with the first nice cluster from each then trip with some friends. Lbel well and whoever really blasts off, well, there's your clone. Plus, you hone your agar skills.

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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: Question about genetics [Re: RoadAppleSnapple]
    #27288405 - 04/30/21 09:44 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Good advice.

If you are growing a reliable strain from a reliable vendor or friend, the chances of a bunk batch are very small. At least they are in my experience. The only way to be sure you are growing potent magic every time is to get a culture on agar and reuse it. Even MS on agar. If the first batch is satisfactory, the odds of subsequent grows from that plate are minimal. It could happen but probably won't. To further beautify you grows, do as suggested above. Sometimes it take a few tries but it's well worth it to end up with a killer clone in cold storage that you can grow for years to come, any time you want more rainbows in your life.

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OfflineOttoMaddox
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Re: Question about genetics [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27288730 - 05/01/21 06:23 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

verum subsequentis said:
Good advice.

If you are growing a reliable strain from a reliable vendor or friend, the chances of a bunk batch are very small. At least they are in my experience. The only way to be sure you are growing potent magic every time is to get a culture on agar and reuse it. Even MS on agar. If the first batch is satisfactory, the odds of subsequent grows from that plate are minimal. It could happen but probably won't. To further beautify you grows, do as suggested above. Sometimes it take a few tries but it's well worth it to end up with a killer clone in cold storage that you can grow for years to come, any time you want more rainbows in your life.




This really helps.  Thank you for the clarity of this response. I harvested my other shoeboxes last night and they're presently in my Excalibur dehydrator (love this machine). I will end up with only about 60 dry grams but they were all different sizes/shapes and mostly small.  Few caps were large enough for spore prints but I got some good ones.

I'm going to be working with these mushrooms for depression and anxiety so I can take my time and experiment with dosing and the potency of these over the summer.  I will definitely work towards consistency in subsequent grows.

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Question about genetics [Re: OttoMaddox]
    #27288809 - 05/01/21 07:53 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Bunk patch seems to go way more hand in hand with deplorable looking grows than genetics

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