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Offlinemoshe1

Registered: 08/29/15
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question regarding lighting and heat (tubs on racks)
    #27286892 - 04/29/21 05:18 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)



i currently have my tubs/domes on racks like this.

i went into a room with designated racks after doing many successful smaller-scale projects from home which i never had a problems with. I've spent a lot of energy preparing a lot of spawn to fill my racks and tubs in my new fruiting room and got extremely disappointing results even though i haven't changed much in my process.

The light bars are zip tied to each row, and are about 5-6 inches below the trays sitting above. I've noticed that the racks heat the bottom-surface of my trays and tubs to 80-85F after some hours of being on. My ambient temps are always 70-74 and the inside of my tubs and domes are always sitting between 76-80 which i thought to be around ideal temps.

could this slight warmth from the LEDs on the bottom of my tras  be whats fuckin things up?

Edited by moshe1 (04/29/21 05:20 PM)

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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: question regarding lighting and heat (tubs on racks) [Re: moshe1] * 1
    #27286931 - 04/29/21 05:46 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Please define "extremely disappointing results".  Also "haven't changed much in the process" leaves a lot of possible things that did change. I wouldn't want the bottom of my trays to be that hot but it's not the definite problem. Same culture as your last runs?
Same RH as your last grow rooms?
How were your surface conditions leading up to you extreme disappointment?
How did your spawn look?
How did the plates that went in to the spawn look.

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Offlinemoshe1

Registered: 08/29/15
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Re: question regarding lighting and heat (tubs on racks) [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27287053 - 04/29/21 07:31 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

verum subsequentis said:
Please define "extremely disappointing results".  Also "haven't changed much in the process" leaves a lot of possible things that did change. I wouldn't want the bottom of my trays to be that hot but it's not the definite problem. Same culture as your last runs?
Same RH as your last grow rooms?
How were your surface conditions leading up to you extreme disappointment?
How did your spawn look?
How did the plates that went in to the spawn look.




Let me answer as best as i could and pardon my ignorance. You are right- technically a lot more has changed from running 4 tubs at home to 20 or more here in my new room. By disappointing i mean extremely small fruits and low yield. I ran 1:1 - 1:1.5 spawn ratio. At home it was just rye to coir, here i've started to mix in verm with my coir as well.  5 of these trays barely broke 100g dry after first flush, and were talking all fruits being super small, almost abort like. To compare with home i'd get the same dry amount with just 1-2 tubs, and despite small fruits first flush, they were still full bodied unlike these stumpy/abort fruits im getting now. So much grain and spawn waste :/. I also was only using a small LED lightbulb at home, here i have these t8 LED bars rated 6500k.

1.  Culture is the same as these guys pictured below. It is from a PEU LC that I was gifted and grown out. I saved about 20lb of healthy spawn with G2G,  i then used that to g2g 5lb rye bags when i got this new spot.


2. RH inside the room is the same as before, correct.  At home my room would get extremely hot during the summer and i didnt have much control over cooling them down- here i can consistently control the temp with central AC. I misted a lot at home since i was always with my tubs. I mist daily here as well but less micro-managing. I live in warm/dry climate.

3. Surface conditions were great! Actually best ive ever seen on my tubs without me regulating as much. Fully colonized, almost completely hydrated at the surface with little water drops. They were super nice to see. When they started knotting as well i was amazed at how much they were blowing up all over the place i was excited and eager to see the pinset and fruits- but after growing not so much excitement. I was informing my friends "these are the best looking tubs lve ever had". I did 5 tubs vs 5 domes to test which is better and they yielded almost exactly the same dry weight, and all disappointing. but now im second-guessing the domes to use conventional tubs again. Heres an example of a surface currently- and this tray i barely had enough sub to fill so its shallower than the rest.


4. Spawn more-or-less looked good/same. A few bags with extra moisture here and there but my bags always had super thick myc that colonized well. They were hard break up before i started using gypsum. here are the bags i currently still have that im storing in the fridge, its the last of this PEU- they look a little sub-par compared to the bags before them cause the bags are a bit wet- but still fully colonized without giving me problems


5. No plates yet, just those LC -> G2G bags I cycled. Working on plates now that i have the space for it so i dont waste anymore energy and money.  I'm reading on genetics everyday for several hours- and cant afford to waste anymore time not working on agar. What would be best for times-sake? Growing out a different MS tub and grabbing a clone? Or grabbing one of these PEU clones if any trays happen to perform? Or should i ditch cloning altogether right now and use one of my Mazy prints or an Amazon syringe i have straight to agar? I definitely dont want to waste resources anymore.

Heres a picture of what the best looking tray fruited like after i cased it (never used casings before). Its alright- but still doesnt even touch on the fruits i had at home.



For context, my initial plan was to get everything set before i found a new space and stepped up my game- then I was unexpectedly blessed to have this new spot available for an amazing price- and the floor-plan is super convenient to work with and i just couldn't pass up the opportunity. It has 2 rooms, one is designated for my flowhood/ clean work and the other for my tubs and racks. I had my flowhood supplies and other things saved for nearly 8 months trying to get them built out so i could hit the road running once i found a space, but life put all of that on hold and earlier this year this new place fell into my lap before my agar journey began.

Once i got the keys to the place i immediately built out my flowhood and brought in my PCs/Sterilizers and got to work on grain. I wasn't so concerned about agar the first few months because i just needed to get by while i learned and filled the gaps in my knowledge. I took the end-results from my MS and LC grows at home as a baseline. "At least" i could produce fruit at that level as i worked on my knowledge and stepped into doing things properly. All i had was a little desk to fruit on, a SAB and ran 4 tubs. Now im several months into my new project and all my results are far worse then ive ever gotten at home despite all the new equipment for the mushies- and i'm still working on agar atm. Not very wise on the wallet- but feeling blessed to finally have time, space and equipment to learn.

Thank you so much for your time, appreciate it lots

Edited by moshe1 (04/29/21 07:56 PM)

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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: question regarding lighting and heat (tubs on racks) [Re: moshe1] * 1
    #27287112 - 04/29/21 08:35 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I've never tried out those cloning trays but I know people who use them and do very well in them. They are not to blame in and of themselves. Sounds like you put a lot of time and energy into trying to make this work. Sorry about the flop. That's a bummer. I wish I had an exact answer for you but I don't. Could be anything from a sneaky contam in the spawn to that culture just not liking your casing. By the way, no one really recommends a verm casing like that.

Switching even one little thing up and then going big is a dangerous idea. I've been through my share of what the fucks in this hobby. I once had a culture that did very very well just start giving me tiny tiny fruits. I didn't change anything. It just started acting fucky. I tried to go back to the slant and even go back to spores and it just never gave me what it used to again. I quit growing it.

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Offlinetiptrippy
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Re: question regarding lighting and heat (tubs on racks) [Re: verum subsequentis] * 1
    #27287115 - 04/29/21 08:38 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry to hear you're still having issues. I suggest trying another grow in a standard monotub (pasty ezdial style). It can't hurt right?

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Offlineinsutama
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Re: question regarding lighting and heat (tubs on racks) [Re: tiptrippy] * 1
    #27287240 - 04/29/21 10:17 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

You said you started adding verm to the coir in the substrate maybe you somehow over hydrated your substrate i know every time i have over hydrated my CVG i get tiny fruits first flush and also not a consistent first flush they dont all finish at close to the same time they kinda just keep growing as you pick them. Thats all i can think of but if your sub is too wet that defiantly could be your issue you could try adding more FAE to compensate for excess moisture also if that is the reason your later flushes should make up for the small first flush best of luck hope you figure it out

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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: question regarding lighting and heat (tubs on racks) [Re: insutama] * 1
    #27287249 - 04/29/21 10:21 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting observation. OP, what's your sub recipe for that last round?

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Offlinemoshe1

Registered: 08/29/15
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Re: question regarding lighting and heat (tubs on racks) [Re: tiptrippy]
    #27287341 - 04/30/21 12:10 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

thank you guys for reading/ replying. Shit really means a lot to me cause im solo with no one really to talk to for info and ideas, let alone troubleshoot.

Quote:

tiptrippy said:
Sorry to hear you're still having issues. I suggest trying another grow in a standard monotub (pasty ezdial style). It can't hurt right?




yeah- i went ahead and separated the lights on one of my carts and set up 4 standard tubs a few hours ago. At this point cant hurt at all man. Brought my ratio down to 1:3 spawn to sub and added an inch of sub depth so its about 3-3.5 in now.


Quote:

insutama said:
You said you started adding verm to the coir in the substrate maybe you somehow over hydrated your substrate i know every time i have over hydrated my CVG i get tiny fruits first flush and also not a consistent first flush they dont all finish at close to the same time they kinda just keep growing as you pick them. Thats all i can think of but if your sub is too wet that defiantly could be your issue you could try adding more FAE to compensate for excess moisture also if that is the reason your later flushes should make up for the small first flush best of luck hope you figure it out






here is 2nd flush. definitely stepped up size wise but don't let the caps fool you- these things had short and thin stems and ended up being pretty bad as well (still grateful tho to get anything at this point)- You bring up a very interesting question. i never really let the sub sit a little after 1st flush before dunking over night- so moisture content could still be a factor here...  I remember i started using verm just before i came to my new place so it wasn't my first time, but i did  prepare things on the wetter side.  More moisture info below


Quote:

verum subsequentis said:
Interesting observation. OP, what's your sub recipe for that last round?




His observation made me really think honestly. I just remembered i used some fine verm towards the end of my home-grows- i had bought my first bag. I will keep an eye on this variable now because i definitely prepared my grains on the wetter side of field-cap, but i believe i've done this even when i was home. Its all becoming pretty hazy thinking about honestly. I am definitely gonna keep my attention on moisture content in the sub for these next bags i have left. 

I was using bods x5 equation for coco bricks- so i'd take my dry weight of coco, say 3x 650g = 1950. Take that multiply by 5 you get 9,75 liters water (9750). Adding about 2-3 cups verm per brick, sometimes i added more sometimes i added less, and compensated with extra water on top of whatever was my coco calculation- but not to an exact measurement. Even my flush 2 fruits being small could be over-hydration because i never gave the cakes decent buffer time to dry out at the end of a flush- and as OP mentioned fruits were being picked out as they grew unevenly- even harvesting these bad trays were insanely time consuming.

I would prepare 4-6 trays at a time on average, and in a handful of batches my sub came out way, way too wet out of the bucket- for those times i squeezed moisture out manually by hand before mixing batch of spawn.


For the 4 tubs i have set tonight, i prepped 2 bricks coco coir and about 5 qt. verm.  to exact standard of field cap. Mixed in (2) of those ~5lb PEU from the fridge and spawned to tubs. Lets see what happens. Also spaced the lighting- but would be awesome if i didnt have to change the set up lol- but it must be tested.


GOING FORWARD:


What would you guys do if you were me right now, going into tomorrow?

Edited by moshe1 (05/01/21 04:24 PM)

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Offlinemoshe1

Registered: 08/29/15
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Re: question regarding lighting and heat (tubs on racks) [Re: moshe1] * 1
    #27289429 - 05/01/21 04:21 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

bump

need to recollect myself and focus on whats next. Need some advice moving forward now:

What would you guys do if you were me? I have these PEU to grow out still, i have a syringe of b+, a syringe of Amazonian, a print of x7x and Blue Meanies. All of which ive never grown. I also have mazy prints from my previous grows- my first strain ever.

I will be mixing my first batch of agar- idk if i should grow out an MS tub and run a clone or start growing out spores on dishes looking for a good fruiter, i understand this could take a long time. I need to make up for the lost time, and want a clear idea for what i should be doing in order to get some relatively consistent results for the time being. My goal is to work with isolates and search for my own winner genetics but I need to get some fruits going as soon as possible to keep the ship afloat.

Long story short: My priority right now is to get to some fruits as timely as possible that are relatively consistent so i can shift focus on isolates and other parts of the hobby.


--------------------

Edited by moshe1 (05/01/21 04:22 PM)

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OfflineCocaineBuffet
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Re: question regarding lighting and heat (tubs on racks) [Re: moshe1]
    #27289438 - 05/01/21 04:36 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Cloning will get you the most consistent results much quicker than starting from MS since you don't know how long it could take to get a clean plate, could be transfer 2 or 10 just not known how clean the prints/syringes are.

I would do both personally regardless.

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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: question regarding lighting and heat (tubs on racks) [Re: moshe1]
    #27289444 - 05/01/21 04:45 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I would start some MSS > agar plates if nothing else to start getting practice for when you take clones.  If you get some clean agressive growth go ahead and transfer it a couple times then send it to grains > bulk.

The MS tub path is going to be risky due to contaminations that are likely present in the MS syringe, but can yield the clone material you are seeking if everything goes well.  I would recommend BRF cakes as they will be more resistant to bacteria and allow you to isolate any contams to a smaller scale so it doesn't take out everything if it goes bad.

If it were me I would make 2-4 plates by putting a drop of MSS on a loop then streak a plate.  Use the rest of the MSS for BRF cakes or keep some around for future use in case you don't get the genetics you are looking for.

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Offlinemoshe1

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Re: question regarding lighting and heat (tubs on racks) [Re: PBJ710]
    #27289530 - 05/01/21 07:04 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

CocaineBuffet said:
Cloning will get you the most consistent results much quicker than starting from MS since you don't know how long it could take to get a clean plate, could be transfer 2 or 10 just not known how clean the prints/syringes are.

I would do both personally regardless.




Gonna go ahead and do both i have no room to get lazy- you are right. Preparing first batch of agar now to streak up tomorrow. Im also rolling the dice with a small portion of the spores i have and noc'd up 4 bags of grain yesterday- hopefully i can get another successful MS grow while i'm cleaning plates up. 

Quote:

PBJ710 said:
I would start some MSS > agar plates if nothing else to start getting practice for when you take clones.  If you get some clean agressive growth go ahead and transfer it a couple times then send it to grains > bulk.

The MS tub path is going to be risky due to contaminations that are likely present in the MS syringe, but can yield the clone material you are seeking if everything goes well.  I would recommend BRF cakes as they will be more resistant to bacteria and allow you to isolate any contams to a smaller scale so it doesn't take out everything if it goes bad.

If it were me I would make 2-4 plates by putting a drop of MSS on a loop then streak a plate.  Use the rest of the MSS for BRF cakes or keep some around for future use in case you don't get the genetics you are looking for.




Im preparing my first batch of plates now- about 20 of them. Gonna take spores to them tomorrow- hopefully i can have a successful agar run for my first time. I've never actually tried growing out on BRF cakes- im assuming i could use a bit of solution to quickly colonize a small jar and get some fruits "quicker" i assume?

As for cloning- what can i do to get an invitro pin for cloning on one of my plates?  assuming i cleaned up my plates and have cclean cultures to spawn- just save a few on a shelf and see if it'll pin?

Thanks for the replies guys :takingnotes: :thumbup:


--------------------

Edited by moshe1 (05/01/21 07:06 PM)

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OfflineFailboat
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Re: question regarding lighting and heat (tubs on racks) [Re: moshe1]
    #27289632 - 05/01/21 08:54 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I wish my tubs were on metal shelves. Would be so much more efficient, but what would I do with all the plastuc shelves I've got. :facepalm:

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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: question regarding lighting and heat (tubs on racks) [Re: Failboat]
    #27289646 - 05/01/21 09:13 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

moshe1 said:Im preparing my first batch of plates now- about 20 of them. Gonna take spores to them tomorrow- hopefully i can have a successful agar run for my first time. I've never actually tried growing out on BRF cakes- im assuming i could use a bit of solution to quickly colonize a small jar and get some fruits "quicker" i assume?

As for cloning- what can i do to get an invitro pin for cloning on one of my plates?  assuming i cleaned up my plates and have cclean cultures to spawn- just save a few on a shelf and see if it'll pin?

Thanks for the replies guys :takingnotes: 




Basically...healthy plates will usually pin in 4-6 weeks IME, so you can just keep your old transfers around and keep them clean and wait for pins to form.

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