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Offlinetroypistachio
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Registered: 04/28/21
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First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top
    #27284915 - 04/28/21 09:24 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Hello everyone,

Long time reader, first time poster.  I am 7 days into the fruiting stage of my first grow, but like a noob I didn't use a liner for my tub.  These are golden teachers that went MSS -> Agar -> Popcorn -> CVG.  What started off as one erroneous side pin ended up pushing the substrate away from the wall, allowing FAE into the sides and to the bottom as well.  I believe triggered a spike in pins on the side/bottom because of the perfect microclimate it created.  I am using an unmodified monotub (lid flipped) in a 3x3 Vivosun grow tent with a 12hr light cycle.  I am currently misting 2-3x/day and fanning for 2 minutes 4-5x/day.   

Now onto the issue at hand - The below pics were taken this morning after giving the babies their good morning misting, but before fanning for FAE.  I have a decent pinset developing on the top, but you can see the side pin that pushed the substrate away from the wall, as well as the cluster of bottom pins that subsequently developed. 

My question is this - The bottom pins are developing much faster than the surface pins.  Am I going to risk them rotting if I wait to harvest them until the top develops?  I considered flipping the sub on it's side, but I don't want to risk damaging the surface pins in the process.  I am really not sure what to do here, so any help/suggestions would be so greatly appreciated! 

Thanks Everyone






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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: troypistachio]
    #27284919 - 04/28/21 09:30 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

They will start to develop bacterial colonies because they are resting in standing water. It'll start as little spots and then grow. If left un picked and dried it will consume the flesh and turn it to goo. Just watch them and pull them if you see it getting worse than some spots. I'd wait as long as I could and only pull them if it starts getting bad. Then I'd dry the bottom and side pins without trying too hard to clean them, Blend them up and make some chocolates or some other goodies out of them. The powder is also great for coffee or tea.

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Offlinetroypistachio
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Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27284924 - 04/28/21 09:34 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

The bacterial colonies was my main concern.  I wasn't sure if that would develop prior to the surface being ready to harvest, or if I needed to pull them out sooner than that.  How would you suggest removing the bottom pins without damaging the sub/surface pins?  I really wasn't sure how to go about doing that.  I have seen quite a few posts with different teks for harvesting bottom pins, but they were all assuming the top was being harvested at the same time.

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InvisibleQM33
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Registered: 04/09/20
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Loc: Oregon
Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27284927 - 04/28/21 09:36 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Try using a black trashbag liner next time. And if you try to put it on its side it will probably crumble. I used to deal with that shit all the time.

And for harvest if you have an extra tub you can put in it to hold it down while you flip it that could work, you could probably flip it with your hands if your super careful with some finesse


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Offlinetroypistachio
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Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: QM33]
    #27284931 - 04/28/21 09:39 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Love the signature, QM33 (~):-} 

I'll definitely be using a trashbag liner next time.  I know that I can use another tub to flip it to harvest the bottom, but wouldn't that damage the pins on the top if I did that?

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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: troypistachio]
    #27284933 - 04/28/21 09:43 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Depends how wet your sub is and or if it's contammed. If on the wet side or contammed they are easier to break. The easiest way I have found without a liner is to tilt the tub slowly with your hand ready to catch the sub once it's tilted enough to flop over. Be gently and stop it. Then let your hand down a tad so it's just over vertical and slip something you've under it. Anything flat, sturdy and at least as big as a shoe box lid will work. I like to use a cutting board I have. Center that as best you can and leave you hand under it. Then tip the tub slowly back toward it's normal position. Once the weight is on your hand which is under the cutting board you can lift the sub out easy peasy. May sound complex but it's actually really easy after you get the hang of it.

In your particular case I'd set it some where and snatch off all the side pins (or whichever are worrying you), then I'd flip that bitch on it's side and snatch off the bottom pins. Then put her back in the tub and proceed with fruiting.

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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: troypistachio]
    #27284934 - 04/28/21 09:44 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

troypistachio said:
Love the signature, QM33 (~):-} 

I'll definitely be using a trashbag liner next time.  I know that I can use another tub to flip it to harvest the bottom, but wouldn't that damage the pins on the top if I did that?




Yes, it would.

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InvisibleQM33
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Registered: 04/09/20
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Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: troypistachio]
    #27284944 - 04/28/21 09:51 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Thank you brother.

Ya, just do it after harvest tho. The ones on
the bottom should last. They shouldn't go bacterial by then, it doesn't look like your side pins have nearly matured even. If you start to see gills on your side pins before your first harvest I might pull them, but you'll probably be fine.
And in case you were thinking of flipping your sub or anything like that, I wouldn't. I've tried and by that point they start growing how they should and the next flush would be on the bottom too ah, ime.


If you really wanted you could try to float it up in another tub of water, but really you'll be okay. I've had tubs that will produce a couple ozs on the bottom.. and omg that's some shit. And they've gotten super ripe also. Works great for tea/chocolates/gifts


And without a liner you'll want to be very careful handling that thing


--------------------
OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum...
There are known knowns, there are known unknowns,
          there are also unknown unknowns.
With great privilege comes great responsibility.

Quantom Qups PROOF AND Soft Drops
Turn your Swab to a Syringe and Syringe to Multiple Syringes!
No Pours (QuantomStyal)
Magic Fruit Leather
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Offlinetroypistachio
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Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27284957 - 04/28/21 10:05 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Depends how wet your sub is and or if it's contammed. If on the wet side or contammed they are easier to break. The easiest way I have found without a liner is to tilt the tub slowly with your hand ready to catch the sub once it's tilted enough to flop over. Be gently and stop it. Then let your hand down a tad so it's just over vertical and slip something you've under it. Anything flat, sturdy and at least as big as a shoe box lid will work. I like to use a cutting board I have. Center that as best you can and leave you hand under it. Then tip the tub slowly back toward it's normal position. Once the weight is on your hand which is under the cutting board you can lift the sub out easy peasy. May sound complex but it's actually really easy after you get the hang of it.




Thanks so much for the detailed response, Verum.  I don't think it's contaminated, knock on wood.  I pasteurized the substrate, and have been over the top OCD about sterilization protocols throughout the whole process.  Quick question regarding your technique - In your example you're tilting the tub on it's side so you can slide the cutting board between the bottom of the tub and the substrate, and are then lifting the cutting board from the bottom to lift the sub block out of the tub?

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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: troypistachio]
    #27284980 - 04/28/21 10:23 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

yes

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Offlinetroypistachio
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Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: QM33]
    #27284982 - 04/28/21 10:26 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

QM33 said:
Thank you brother.

Ya, just do it after harvest tho. The ones on
the bottom should last. They shouldn't go bacterial by then, it doesn't look like your side pins have nearly matured even. If you start to see gills on your side pins before your first harvest I might pull them, but you'll probably be fine.
And in case you were thinking of flipping your sub or anything like that, I wouldn't. I've tried and by that point they start growing how they should and the next flush would be on the bottom too ah, ime.


If you really wanted you could try to float it up in another tub of water, but really you'll be okay. I've had tubs that will produce a couple ozs on the bottom.. and omg that's some shit. And they've gotten super ripe also. Works great for tea/chocolates/gifts


And without a liner you'll want to be very careful handling that thing




Do you think it's a bad thing that I can see gills already on some of the bottom pins?  I wasn't so worried at first because I figured that the top/bottom would grow out at the same pace, and I could just harvest the bottom at the same time.  I'm starting to get a little worried now though because the bottom really seems to be blowing up, and I can see the veil has broke on a few of them already.

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Offlinetroypistachio
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Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27285014 - 04/28/21 10:45 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

verum subsequentis said:
yes




Awesome, thanks again for the advice.  I seriously appreciate it

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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: troypistachio]
    #27285027 - 04/28/21 10:58 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

:goodday:

Again, I'd only bother with it IF you start seeing serious rot. You may not have to.

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InvisibleQM33
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Registered: 04/09/20
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Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27285061 - 04/28/21 11:18 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

verum subsequentis said:
Again, I'd only bother with it IF you start seeing serious rot. You may not have to.




Agreed

Edit: and it may appear the veil has broken, but idk. And there's a difference between a. Broken veil and the caps starting to convex, to where you will see the gills. Much different points of maturity. And obviously the more past maturation you wait the more likely it will be to rot.


--------------------
OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum...
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          there are also unknown unknowns.
With great privilege comes great responsibility.

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Edited by QM33 (04/28/21 11:24 AM)

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OfflineShakedown Street
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Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: QM33]
    #27285327 - 04/28/21 03:44 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

QM33 said:
Quote:

verum subsequentis said:
Again, I'd only bother with it IF you start seeing serious rot. You may not have to.




Agreed

Edit: and it may appear the veil has broken, but idk. And there's a difference between a. Broken veil and the caps starting to convex, to where you will see the gills. Much different points of maturity.



Is that the chronological order:
1 Veil breaks.
2 Caps turn convex.
3 You can see gills. (I imagine that is the hour the spores come out.)

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InvisibleQM33
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Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: Shakedown Street]
    #27285351 - 04/28/21 04:06 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I mean really you can see gills when the veil breaks if you look ha...
But once they convex and curl outwards  your getting towards the furthest point for sure. Shortly after that they usually tend to start colonizing themselves to some extent, then rot.


I've seen bacterial tubes produce small fruits that open caps prematurely.


--------------------
OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum...
There are known knowns, there are known unknowns,
          there are also unknown unknowns.
With great privilege comes great responsibility.

Quantom Qups PROOF AND Soft Drops
Turn your Swab to a Syringe and Syringe to Multiple Syringes!
No Pours (QuantomStyal)
Magic Fruit Leather
DMT for IandI

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Offlinetroypistachio
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Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: QM33]
    #27286353 - 04/29/21 09:31 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quick Update

This morning when I woke up and checked on them I noticed a few of the bottom pins had dropped spores, and even though the top of the substrate was basically dry, the bottom of the tub wasn't drying out.  I went ahead and sacrificed a few of the top pins by harvesting them early so I could gently flip the cake to harvest the bottom pins.  I wish I would have taken a pic of the bottom before I harvested it, because it was a crazy knotted cluster of WAY more pins than I realized.  I'm glad I went ahead and harvested them this morning, because I don't think they would have stayed good while I waited on the top to fully pin due to the standing water in the bottom of the tub.  Stoked for my first fruits, thanks so much to Verum and QM33 for the assist!


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Offlineverum subsequentis
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Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: troypistachio]
    #27286366 - 04/29/21 09:43 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Nice.

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InvisibleQM33
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Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27286375 - 04/29/21 09:56 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Good job!


--------------------
OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum...
There are known knowns, there are known unknowns,
          there are also unknown unknowns.
With great privilege comes great responsibility.

Quantom Qups PROOF AND Soft Drops
Turn your Swab to a Syringe and Syringe to Multiple Syringes!
No Pours (QuantomStyal)
Magic Fruit Leather
DMT for IandI

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InvisibleAtomsplit
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Re: First Grow - Bottom Pins Outgrowing Top [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #27286379 - 04/29/21 09:58 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

:dancer:


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