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Offlinekidcharlemagne
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Are there too many burst grains here?
    #27280184 - 04/24/21 08:25 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

First time cooking grains and I think I may have misunderstood what "burst grains" meant specifically. I was looking for the sort of popcorn splurge out the kernel, but as I'm drying these, I see a lot of what looks like cracked hull.  Do these look okay to you?  If so, should I try to cook them a little less next time? Thanks.



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InvisibleQM33
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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: kidcharlemagne]
    #27280238 - 04/24/21 09:40 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

You should be fine as long as you get the steam offem.

I prepped some then steamed them for 24 hours and I had a couple bags with se really mushy spots, they colonized fine tho.


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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: QM33]
    #27280241 - 04/24/21 09:42 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Those are fine. :awesomenod:


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Offlinekidcharlemagne
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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: Smartattack]
    #27280279 - 04/24/21 10:12 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Smartattack said:
Those are fine. :awesomenod:




Thanks.  It seems like I lot of the grains husks are split but not bulging the light core.  Are those considered "burst?" I'm just trying to figure if I should cook them less next time.  Thanks!


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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: kidcharlemagne]
    #27280298 - 04/24/21 10:36 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Burst grains are gonna be a mushy mess. Run your hand through them and if they don't stick in large quantities than you are good. I agree with the Smart guy in the room. "You are fine"


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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: Sockadin] * 2
    #27280348 - 04/24/21 11:40 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

I’ll be the weird one here and say I prefer a decent amount of burst grains... myc loves the extra exposed starch and the jars colonize super fast... but your culture needs to be clean or bacteria will have a field day as well.

Just a different perspective... do what makes you feel good.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: kidcharlemagne]
    #27280351 - 04/24/21 11:44 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

kidcharlemagne said:
Quote:

Smartattack said:
Those are fine. :awesomenod:




I'm just trying to figure if I should cook them less next time.  Thanks!




Those are OK.  The main reason grains crack is not cooking them too long, but failing to soak several hours first to soften them.
RR


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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: fahtster]
    #27280376 - 04/24/21 12:05 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fahtster said:
I’ll be the weird one here and say I prefer a decent amount of burst grains... myc loves the extra exposed starch and the jars colonize super fast... but your culture needs to be clean or bacteria will have a field day as well.

Just a different perspective... do what makes you feel good.

Faht




:whathesaid:

Burst grains are never a problem if those burst grains happened when you were hydrating them. Just dry them well and they'll come out looking perfect out of the PC.

A different thing is when you hydrate grains fully and then don't let them dry properly before jarring up. That extra mositure will likely mean burst grains after the cycle that weren't there when you jarred up and clumping will happen too.

Many people trip over burst grain when boiling, so they make the mistake to stop boiling when they see the first burst kernels, sometimes without realizing the majority of the kernels aren't even well hydrated yet.

I recommend a large mesh for drying grain. When they no longer feel damp on the outside, grab a handful and ask yourself the question 'do I have a perfectly shakable substrate right now?', you'd be surprised that the answer is probably always going to be yes even if you had a lot of burst kernels during boiling and that's exactly what you want, having a fully hydrated, shakable substrate.

IME, if bacterial problems should arise it will be much more obvious to notice on well hydrated grain. Poorly hydrated grains can be treacherous for this reason and given that we sterilize with wet heat it behoves you to have your grains well hydrated to sterilize them correctly.

Also, when the grain is well hydrated, the colony can colonize it more thoroughly, and this is always a good thing for many reasons. Underhydrated grains often makes the colony grow wispy and kinda weak.


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Offlinekidcharlemagne
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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #27280402 - 04/24/21 12:37 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

kidcharlemagne said:
Quote:

Smartattack said:
Those are fine. :awesomenod:




I'm just trying to figure if I should cook them less next time.  Thanks!




Those are OK.  The main reason grains crack is not cooking them too long, but failing to soak several hours first to soften them.
RR




Great thanks.  Hey I've been dying to ask you something so I hope it's OK if I derail my own thread.  I asked about this in its own thread but didn't get any responses and have scoured the internet to no avail.  In a compilation of your forum posts, in one post you seem to be implying that you don't want to isolate the individual strains of a cloned fruit (and that you should fruit the whole shebang.). It was just an aside to another point you were making so you didn't go into detail.  Did I interpret that correctly and, if so, does that mean that more than one strain can contribute to a fruit's phenotype?  And if not, did the other strains that are present in a cloned fruit on agar just get swept on in the fruit body formation and come along for the ride?  Thanks so much.  You've taught me a ton.


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Offlinekidcharlemagne
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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: Josex]
    #27280411 - 04/24/21 12:50 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Josex said:
Quote:

fahtster said:
I’ll be the weird one here and say I prefer a decent amount of burst grains... myc loves the extra exposed starch and the jars colonize super fast... but your culture needs to be clean or bacteria will have a field day as well.

Just a different perspective... do what makes you feel good.

Faht




:whathesaid:

Burst grains are never a problem if those burst grains happened when you were hydrating them. Just dry them well and they'll come out looking perfect out of the PC.

A different thing is when you hydrate grains fully and then don't let them dry properly before jarring up. That extra mositure will likely mean burst grains after the cycle that weren't there when you jarred up and clumping will happen too.

Many people trip over burst grain when boiling, so they make the mistake to stop boiling when they see the first burst kernels, sometimes without realizing the majority of the kernels aren't even well hydrated yet.

I recommend a large mesh for drying grain. When they no longer feel damp on the outside, grab a handful and ask yourself the question 'do I have a perfectly shakable substrate right now?', you'd be surprised that the answer is probably always going to be yes even if you had a lot of burst kernels during boiling and that's exactly what you want, having a fully hydrated, shakable substrate.

IME, if bacterial problems should arise it will be much more obvious to notice on well hydrated grain. Poorly hydrated grains can be treacherous for this reason and given that we sterilize with wet heat it behoves you to have your grains well hydrated to sterilize them correctly.

Also, when the grain is well hydrated, the colony can colonize it more thoroughly, and this is always a good thing for many reasons. Underhydrated grains often makes the colony grow wispy and kinda weak.




Geez I've read 300 frickin pages of various oat tek forum posts and never came across this info.  Thanks a lot for taking the time to make that clear.  So it's all about having a shakeable spawn and not about avoiding exposing grain kernels to potential bacteria?  Thanks in advance.


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: kidcharlemagne]
    #27280414 - 04/24/21 12:56 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, bacteria causes bacteria, not burst kernels. I'm aware there's a good chunk of awfully outdated info back when people used to link burst grain to bacteria, it's completely false.

If by any chance one day you boil for too long and have a lot of burst, just do the test yourself, dry them decently before jarring up and they'll come out looking surprisingly good after the cycle. Also behold myc devouring some well hydrated shit :lol:

Not recommending you boil for longer than required though, virtue is in the middle ground, just don't stop boiling when you see the first burst if the majority of kernels haven't reached the correct hydration yet.


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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: Josex]
    #27280454 - 04/24/21 02:00 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

I only dislike too many burst ones because it can make for hard shaking in a jar when it clumps. But definitely agree that myc like the low hanging fruit.


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: Smartattack]
    #27280469 - 04/24/21 02:09 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah well he doesn't even have really burst kernels there, just some exposed cores which is something I personally like. Pretty hard to get oats to burst.


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InvisibleSmartattack
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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: Josex]
    #27280559 - 04/24/21 03:52 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Josex said:
Yeah well he doesn't even have really burst kernels there, just some exposed cores which is something I personally like. Pretty hard to get oats to burst.




Leave the house while they are boiling. It'll be quaker instant when you come home.

:tryingnottodie:

Def a bigger fan of soak prep now for that reason.


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: Smartattack]
    #27280590 - 04/24/21 04:21 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

How long do you dry your oats? Grain with husks like barley and oats take way long to get them dry on the outside ime, I'm talking about 24 hours or so for me (maybe it's cuz I live in a humid climate dunno).
Unless we're dealing with a huge mess of burst grain in which case you're probably better off starting over, a fairly normal amount of burst is no issue if you dry them well ime, they don't clump at all for me after pc'ing.
I make sure the bulk of the grains is correctly hydrated, no fucks given about burst if I take care to dry them well afterwards.
Given the bad quality of the grain I can source, it's usually the case that a lot of them burst before I get them all properly hydrated.


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Offlinekidcharlemagne
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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: Smartattack]
    #27280594 - 04/24/21 04:23 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Smartattack said:
Quote:

Josex said:
Yeah well he doesn't even have really burst kernels there, just some exposed cores which is something I personally like. Pretty hard to get oats to burst.




Leave the house while they are boiling. It'll be quaker instant when you come home.

:tryingnottodie:

Def a bigger fan of soak prep now for that reason.




You're a bigger fan of soak prep because you want exposed cores?  That seems at odds with what RR just said about burst grains being a result of NOT soaking.  Am I misunderstanding one of you?  Thanks.


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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #27280595 - 04/24/21 04:25 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

kidcharlemagne said:
Quote:

Smartattack said:
Those are fine. :awesomenod:




I'm just trying to figure if I should cook them less next time.  Thanks!




Those are OK.  The main reason grains crack is not cooking them too long, but failing to soak several hours first to soften them.
RR




Holy shit! Its the man himself, how ya doing RR?


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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: kidcharlemagne]
    #27280598 - 04/24/21 04:31 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

No sure if you were replying to me. I don't soak, quit doing it.
It's true you don't need to boil for so long if you soak which in turn will reduce the number of burst grains and soaked grains also seem to be more resistant to boiling water without bursting.

But I had issues from soaking. The explanation tends to be somewhat controversial and has nothing to do with the subject of this thread, so I'll just say I don't like soaking.


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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: Josex]
    #27280618 - 04/24/21 04:52 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

I agree about not soaking oats. A quick simmer does great for me. But now I'm playing with millet and rye by just soaking is what I meant by that. Oats in a nutshell are easy as hell once you get it down. I'm just a big fan of less electric use nowadays as my house is already a hog.


Edited by Smartattack (04/24/21 04:53 PM)


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Offlinepsilogeek
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Re: Are there too many burst grains here? [Re: kidcharlemagne]
    #27280637 - 04/24/21 05:20 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)



This garbage deer corn seems to be working for me.  But it's my first grow.  lol.


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