Home | Community | Message Board


Cannabis Seeds UK
Please support our sponsors.

Feedback and Administration >> Shroomery News Service

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore Injection Grain Bag, North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
Onlinesonoramo
Contaminant
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/27/19
Posts: 424
Loc: California, baby! Flag
Last seen: 3 minutes, 15 seconds
California Globe: Saying Yes to Drug Addiction, One Drug Den at a Time * 1
    #27280227 - 04/24/21 11:27 AM (11 days, 21 hours ago)

Saying Yes to Drug Addiction, One Drug Den at a Time
‘This is like giving a person struggling with alcoholism a gift card to BevMo’


By Katy Grimes, April 22, 2021 2:52 pm
Original story: California Globe

Sonoramo's posting comment:

This is State Senator Scott Wiener's "safe injection plan." As alluded in the story, this isn't Wiener's first attempt to legalize safe injection sites in CA. He is also the author of SB-519, which would (will? :wink:) decriminalize most entheogen possession and use in California. Even if you don't live in CA, you want SB-519 to become law! California Globe represents the CA-GOP reaction to most of Wiener's proposed legislation. Katy Grimes is plugged into the CA-GOP and seems to come up with a lot of their talking points. Republican committee members frequently regurgitate the same twisted talking points during hearings.

So this article closely represents the nature of opposition to SB-519. Keep in mind that most of the GOP can't tell the difference between ceremonial use and sharing or glue-huffing.


“Saying Yes to Drug Addiction, One Drug Den at a Time,” is a clever title to a very serious problem. California Senate Republicans issued a press statement with this title Thursday over their concerns with Senate Bill 57 by Sen. Scott Wiener (D-San Francisco). “California is in the midst of an unprecedented overdose crisis that must be treated as a public health crisis,” Wiener said. Senate Bill 57 passed the Senate by a vote of 21-11, and is headed to the Assembly.

Republicans said, “Senate Democrat colleagues are making it easier for drug addicts to consume hard drugs without addressing the root causes of addiction or protecting neighbors living near proposed ‘drug den’ locations. Senate Bill 57 allows California cities and counties to establish taxpayer-staffed and funded drug dens.”

SB 57, Called the “Overdose Prevention Program,” authored by Sen. Wiener, would authorize the City and County of San Francisco, the County of Los Angeles, and the City of Oakland to approve entities to establish and operate overdose prevention programs (OPPs) until January 1, 2027. This bill requires OPPs to provide specified services, including supervision by trained staff and referrals for treatment.
Scott D. Wiener
Senator Scott D. Wiener. (Photo: Kevin Sanders for California Globe)

The State Senate Republicans noted they are fighting to combat the deadly fentanyl epidemic, while their Senate Democrat colleagues appear to be normalizing substance abuse. “Missing from this bill are any strategies to appropriately utilize methadone alternatives, mandatory treatment protocols, onsite drug counseling, or even efforts to gradually wean an addict off the cycle of dependence,” bill analysis in opposition to SB 57 says.

“This is like giving a person struggling with alcoholism a gift card to BevMo. The Democrats are the party of enablers right now – and at taxpayer expense,” said Senate Republican Leader Scott Wilk (R-Santa Clarita). “Instead of robust efforts to help drug addicts kick the habit, Senate Democrats are throwing everyone under the bus in a ‘feel good’ push to embrace the addict rather than help them get housed, healed, and back to productive life. There is zero consideration for the neighborhoods in which these sites will operate, the victims of crimes resulting from addicts roaming the streets, or the families of individuals struggling with addiction who are praying their loved one gets treatment rather than drugs.”

It is evident Sen. Wiener is concerned about drug addiction as well as the dramatic increase in drug overdoses just since 2019, attributable to the lockdown, however reaching a solution is where Wiener and others don’t see eye-to-eye.

Wiener said: “In the context of the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States and in California, the already alarming rate of drug overdose is worsening. A recent study of Emergency Medical Services data in the Journal of the American Medical Association found overdose rates were doubled in May of 2020, compared to 2019. More than 40 states have documented increases in opioid overdoses since the beginning of shelter in place. OPPs, also called supervised consumption services, are a necessary intervention to prevent overdose deaths. Approximately 165 OPPs exist in ten countries, and have been rigorously researched and shown to reduce health and safety problems associated with drug use, including public drug use, discarded syringes, HIV and hepatitis infections, and overdose deaths.”

Republicans noted that in 2018, Governor Jerry Brown vetoed a very similar bill, Assembly Bill 186, In his veto message, Gov. Brown noted, “enabling illegal and destructive drug use will never work.”

Here is Brown’s veto message:
Quote:


“I conclude that the disadvantages of this bill far outweigh the possible benefits.

Fundamentally, I do not believe that enabling illegal drug use in government sponsored injection centers-with no corresponding requirement that the user undergo treatment-will reduce drug addiction.

In addition, although this bill creates immunity under state law, it can’t create such immunity under federal law. In fact, the United States Attorney General has already threatened prosecution and it would be irresponsible to expose local officials and health care professionals to potential federal criminal charges.

Our paramount goal must be to reduce the use of illegal drugs and opioids that daily enslaves human beings and wreaks havoc in our communities. California has never had enough drug treatment programs and does not have enough now. Residential, outpatient and case management-all are needed, voluntarily undertaken or coercively imposed by our courts. Both incentives and sanctions are needed. One without the other is futile.

There is no silver bullet, quick fix or piecemeal approach that will work. A comprehensive effort at the state and local level is required. Fortunately, under the Affordable Care Act, California now has federal money to support a much expanded system of care for the addicted. That’s the route we should follow: involving many parties and many elements in a thoroughly integrated undertaking.

I repeat, enabling illegal and destructive drug use will never work. The community must have the authority and the laws to require compassionate but effective and mandatory treatment. AB 186 is all carrot and no stick.”





According to bill analysis, the co-sponsors of SB 57 are “largely health care providers and health and justice advocates:”

California Association of Alcohol and Drug Program Executives (co-source), California Society of Addiction Medicine (co-source), Drug Policy Alliance (co-source) HealthRIGHT 360 (co-source), San Francisco AIDS Foundation (co-source), and Tarzana Treatment Centers (co-source).

Bill analysis states there is no fiscal impact to SB 57, which is hard to believe. If the the City and County of San Francisco, the County of Los Angeles, and the City of Oakland approve entities to establish and operate overdose prevention programs, who pays for this?

The California District Attorneys Association said they believe the reasons cited by Governor Brown in his veto message are equally applicable to SB 57. “We particularly echo Governor Brown’s concern that ‘enabling illegal drug use in government sponsored injection centers – with no corresponding requirement that the user undergo treatment – will reduce drug addiction.'”

The CDAA also noted, “The recent study of injection sites completed last year by the Canadian Province of Alberta is instructive in assessing this policy. According to the study, the SB 57 injection sites have a magnet effect where addicts are drawn to the areas around the sites in the mistaken belief that use of the controlled substances in question are now legal. Consistent use of injection sites is very low, overdose deaths in the vicinity of the injection sites actually increase and COVID-19 risks are magnified.”
Print Friendly, PDF & Email

Katy Grimes, the Editor of the California Globe, is a long-time Investigative Journalist covering the California State Capitol, and the co-author of California's War Against Donald Trump: Who Wins? Who Loses?


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHolybullshit
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/19
Posts: 844
Re: California Globe: Saying Yes to Drug Addiction, One Drug Den at a Time [Re: sonoramo] * 2
    #27280247 - 04/24/21 11:46 AM (11 days, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

Fundamentally, I do not believe that enabling illegal drug use in government sponsored injection centers-with no corresponding requirement that the user undergo treatment-will reduce drug addiction.




Too bad their isn't existing research or other examples we could analyze to see if Jerry knew WTF he was talking about or not...

If it saves lives this is almost a tangential issue to me, but it provides a foothold in a community that is notoriously hard to reach. You don't need to make the treatment mandatory, doing so could even be counter productive, you just need a steady presence and be ready when they are.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 6,312
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
Re: California Globe: Saying Yes to Drug Addiction, One Drug Den at a Time [Re: Holybullshit]
    #27280444 - 04/24/21 03:40 PM (11 days, 17 hours ago)

The premise of it being none of my business can only be true when I do not have to pay for it.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineVP123
Strange
Male


Registered: 06/27/19
Posts: 276
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 16 hours, 10 minutes
Re: California Globe: Saying Yes to Drug Addiction, One Drug Den at a Time [Re: durian_2008] * 1
    #27280659 - 04/24/21 07:59 PM (11 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

durian_2008 said:
The premise of it being none of my business can only be true when I do not have to pay for it.




There is the cost for the taxpayers (or sponsor's donations) and there is the social cost. Either way we pay for it.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 6,312
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
Re: California Globe: Saying Yes to Drug Addiction, One Drug Den at a Time [Re: VP123]
    #27280857 - 04/24/21 11:38 PM (11 days, 9 hours ago)

What social cost, if everyone is respectful of everyone else's property and the fruits of their labor?


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineQuirkmeister92
Street Doctor

Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 6,149
Loc: Grateful Dead USA
Last seen: 18 minutes, 34 seconds
Re: California Globe: Saying Yes to Drug Addiction, One Drug Den at a Time [Re: durian_2008]
    #27281511 - 04/25/21 02:39 PM (10 days, 18 hours ago)

There's a social cost to not criminalizing a disease? We have to try to do the humane thing? Sounds like it's a logical long term investment if you want to look at "costs".

Build a full public medical campus in every town covering everything from pharmacy and ER to needle clinic, rehab, and psychological services. It would be a federal trust providing treatment across the board for everyone who comes in by proper doctors and med staff. The costs are covered by taxes, and the government runs it all at cost so the taxpayers bill is absolutely minimum. Meanwhile private medicine can try to compete in business with the FedMed. If the competition all ends up out of business and FedMed takes them all over, well fuck em that's Capitalism.

Same should go for all other industries like when the US bailed out the automobile makers. The people bought a business that failed, then gifted it to private interest again effectively. Should have made Government Motors and started selling vehicles directly to the people.

Just don't bandy about the word socialism until it's been adopted...:rolleyes:


--------------------
Team wheat...


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 6,312
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
Re: California Globe: Saying Yes to Drug Addiction, One Drug Den at a Time [Re: Quirkmeister92]
    #27281527 - 04/25/21 02:56 PM (10 days, 18 hours ago)

I appreciate your stance against big govt, but drug addiction is not a disease. Yes, I know about withdrawals.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineQuirkmeister92
Street Doctor

Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 6,149
Loc: Grateful Dead USA
Last seen: 18 minutes, 34 seconds
Re: California Globe: Saying Yes to Drug Addiction, One Drug Den at a Time [Re: durian_2008]
    #27281598 - 04/25/21 04:17 PM (10 days, 17 hours ago)

Well you can take that up with modern medical science :shrug:


--------------------
Team wheat...


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineVP123
Strange
Male


Registered: 06/27/19
Posts: 276
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 16 hours, 10 minutes
Re: California Globe: Saying Yes to Drug Addiction, One Drug Den at a Time [Re: Quirkmeister92]
    #27281821 - 04/25/21 08:09 PM (10 days, 13 hours ago)

When I was referring to social cost I was thinking the stigma and the organized crime associated with prohibition. When I mentioned about tax payers and donations I was thinking about the drug consumption centers.

People being jailed for using a plant to relax or medicate themselves is affecting lots of families. I'm all for legalization without creating a captive market that only allows certain people to grow it. I wanted to say that the cost of sponsoring drug consumption centers is not as bad as throwing lots of people in jail. The money given to the police to incarcerate people for drug consumption could be better used in education.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineQuirkmeister92
Street Doctor

Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 6,149
Loc: Grateful Dead USA
Last seen: 18 minutes, 34 seconds
Re: California Globe: Saying Yes to Drug Addiction, One Drug Den at a Time [Re: VP123]
    #27281915 - 04/25/21 09:53 PM (10 days, 11 hours ago)

:costanza:


--------------------
Team wheat...


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 6,312
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
Re: California Globe: Saying Yes to Drug Addiction, One Drug Den at a Time [Re: Quirkmeister92]
    #27282738 - 04/26/21 03:50 PM (9 days, 17 hours ago)

No offense is intended toward present company. My answer will be apolitical.

Firstly, I appreciate a more-permissive stance.

What has been experienced, among my inner circle, is that any lapse of consciousness (with or without drugs) is interpreted by the LEO as some unidentified intoxicant that didn't show up in the field test. 

The car or people involved will be held for ransom.

And, they will be forced to attend "classes", along the lines of that old CRT monitor and VCR cart, playing mattress-tag warnings.

Here is an added step of bureaucracy, which triggers all of the same, strict, controlling behaviors of the authoritarians.

Alternatively, we can ask whether there was any victim of calculable damages. Was there a victim. If so, just restore that victim, mathematically, rather than worrying about everyone's mental life.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleHolybullshit
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/19
Posts: 844
Re: California Globe: Saying Yes to Drug Addiction, One Drug Den at a Time [Re: durian_2008] * 1
    #27283813 - 04/27/21 01:31 PM (8 days, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

durian_2008 said:
The premise of it being none of my business can only be true when I do not have to pay for it.




You already are paying for it, one way or another. It's cheaper on the government to actually face the problem, rather than pretend it doesn't exist but continuing to live(and pay for) the fallout from it.

Quote:

Here is an added step of bureaucracy, which triggers all of the same, strict, controlling behaviors of the authoritarians.

Alternatively, we can ask whether there was any victim of calculable damages. Was there a victim. If so, just restore that victim, mathematically, rather than worrying about everyone's mental life.




You want to solve societies problems through tort? What'd you just come from the 19th century?

These programs work, this isn't an experiment, the research is in. And its not about the individual, its about the impact certain groups of people can have on society, and whether that constitutes a compelling state interest. Which I think an opioid epidemic definitely qualifies.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 6,312
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
Re: California Globe: Saying Yes to Drug Addiction, One Drug Den at a Time [Re: Holybullshit]
    #27285616 - 04/28/21 09:49 PM (7 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

Holybullshit said:
You want to solve societies problems through tort? What'd you just come from the 19th century?




I understand that the use of the legal system to cause remorse  / reformation was a 19th century concept.

No, I don't want to solve any social problems.

I don't even believe in the concept of jailing.

In SWIM's latest experience, there were no blankets, toilet paper, or running source of drinking water, in a complex that had originally been built to intern Japanese.

Since when does this restore the victim, physically, of the supposed property crime.

Why are we always trying to restore the perp, going through all these mental gymnastics, trying justify cruelty against your fellow man, as though it's therapeutic.

Fix what you break without mind control.

Why don't activists storm the Bastille.

Quote:

Holybullshit said:
These programs work




If drug counseling existed before the late opiate epidemic, how can these programs work.

I had a preppy girlfriend, in elementary school, who used "junkie" as a figure of speech, every five minutes. Most everyone has the basic concept.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Onlinesonoramo
Contaminant
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/27/19
Posts: 424
Loc: California, baby! Flag
Last seen: 3 minutes, 15 seconds
Re: California Globe: Saying Yes to Drug Addiction, One Drug Den at a Time [Re: durian_2008]
    #27286349 - 04/29/21 11:29 AM (6 days, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

durian_2008 said:
...If drug counseling existed before the late opiate epidemic, how can these programs work...




That's pretty simple. Consider how Covid vaccines existed before the disease went into exponential growth in Dec 2020 - Jan 2021: The preventative existed, but there wasn't enough of it to prevent the catastrophe.

There's little question that counseling with proven methods like CBT "works" in the sense that some fraction of the clients subsequently modify their cognitive and physical behavior in a way that prevents them from returning to active addiction. Jerry Brown seems to think (or have thought?) that addicts are resistant to being trained out of their misery, maybe because their misery just isn't miserable enough to get them into counseling. Per "Jerry Brown's veto statement," the addict has to be persuaded into therapy to get that process started. Making the safe injection place contingent on counseling is the persuasive element.

The "Scott Wiener" perspective (not just his own, but a widely held one among counselors and expressed in his bill) is that addicts will be addicts until they make a life transition. Therefore the best thing to do is keep them alive until that transition happens. In this perspective, counseling availability and efficacy are orthogonal to keeping the addicts alive.

Wiener's SB-519 entheogen decriminalization bill follows pretty much the same philosophy. I think the topic is interesting to Shroomers because SB-519 has pretty much the same gangs of proponents and detractors. If the needle exchange bill passes and gets signed into law, SB-519 should be a slam dunk.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinedurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 6,312
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
Re: California Globe: Saying Yes to Drug Addiction, One Drug Den at a Time [Re: sonoramo]
    #27287548 - 04/30/21 09:16 AM (6 days, 8 minutes ago)

SWIM had a diagnosed, neurological condition, yet was forced to run errands, around town, in support of SWIM's family.

SWIM successfully parked a car, when too tired to function, and took a short nap in a public parkinglot, with no restrictions posted, even within eyeshot of SWIM's very house.

Car was impounded, until dumb, video telecourses had been passed.

Sweatshop labor is sourced, locally, from halfway houses, hidden among residential zoning, where freedom of movement is under controls. 

You are unwittingly creating a Black Mirror or Twilight Zone kind of scenario, under which, anyone can be railroaded, without so much as a field test.

All of the old legal entanglements of the drug war remain intact.

But, the legal threshold is now much lower to force people to accept the fake counseling.


Post Extras: Filter  Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Shop: North Spore Injection Grain Bag, North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Feedback and Administration >> Shroomery News Service

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Rave Ban Across California Called For By Assemblywoman Fiona Ma
( 1 2 all )
CaptainAhab 5,235 39 12/24/10 02:20 AM
by Konyap
* [CAN] On-air drug use by Saskatoon DJ sparks debate veggieM 2,353 14 12/17/10 09:11 AM
by pyl91
* [UK] Charity for homeless tells people not to give money to beggars at Christmas veggieM 2,362 14 12/20/10 12:14 AM
by astral_stardust
* WikiLeaks: Cables reveal U.S.-Cuban cooperation over drug smuggling JackthaTripper 1,914 13 12/18/10 12:50 AM
by Rogerdodger91
* Mystical Encounters, With and Without Drugs veggieM 188 1 04/30/21 08:32 AM
by WeebleWobble
* Legal Herb Has LSD-Like Effects
( 1 2 3 all )
MrKite1 6,375 46 05/01/07 01:01 AM
by pokermush
* New California marijuana possession law takes effect January 1
( 1 2 all )
veggieM 4,521 33 12/31/10 09:18 PM
by Curiousgeorge22
* Christian Coalition founder Pat Robertson favors marijuana legalization
( 1 2 all )
veggieM 2,590 22 12/26/10 11:00 AM
by Urb

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: motaman, veggie, karode13, Alan Rockefeller, naum, Mostly_Harmless
454 topic views. 1 members, 4 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic ]
Search this thread:
Mushrooms.com
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2021 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.024 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 13 queries.