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InvisibleMycoangulo

Registered: 12/29/20
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Re: Undetermined Section Cordisporae Psilocybe found in Bay of Plenty, New Zeland [Re: RogerTheRetard]
    #27280025 - 04/24/21 05:03 AM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Besides this all I've found is that there is s species called Psilocybe cordispora.

I had previously seen papuana placed in section zapotecorum.

Looks like I have plenty more to learn on the subject.


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Re: Undetermined Section Cordisporae Psilocybe found in Bay of Plenty, New Zeland [Re: Mycoangulo]
    #27280035 - 04/24/21 05:31 AM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Psilocybe papuana is in Section Cordisporae bro not Section Zapotecorum.
:nerd:


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InvisibleMycoangulo

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Re: Undetermined Section Cordisporae Psilocybe found in Bay of Plenty, New Zeland [Re: RogerTheRetard]
    #27280047 - 04/24/21 05:50 AM (8 months, 21 days ago)

I have just learned of Section cordisporae. I'm not challenging anyone here. I'm very interested in learning more, while also wondering how many more whole sections of the genus I am still unaware of.


Edited by Mycoangulo (04/24/21 06:16 AM)


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Re: Undetermined Section Cordisporae Psilocybe found in Bay of Plenty, New Zeland [Re: Mycoangulo]
    #27280060 - 04/24/21 06:24 AM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Lots of Mexican terricolous species of Psilocybe are in Section Cordisporae...

There are quite a few "Sections" of Psilocybe actually...
Mexicanae, Aztecorum, Cyanescens, Stuntzae, Cordisporae, Zapotecorum, Semilanceatae, perhaps a few others that skip my mind IDK...

Guzman was the inventor of the "Section" thing AFAIK...


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Re: Undetermined Section Cordisporae Psilocybe found in Bay of Plenty, New Zeland [Re: RogerTheRetard]
    #27280066 - 04/24/21 06:43 AM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Yo inski or Alan... Are there more than 7 "Sections" in Psilocybe?

AFAIK the aforementioned 7 are the only 7 "Sections" of Psilocybe...


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OnlineAnglerfishM
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Re: Undetermined Section Cordisporae Psilocybe found in Bay of Plenty, New Zeland [Re: RogerTheRetard]
    #27280071 - 04/24/21 07:11 AM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Mycoangulo said:
Mexicanae, Aztecorum, Cyanescens, Stuntzae, Cordisporae, Zapotecorum, Semilanceatae, perhaps a few others that skip my mind IDK...

Guzman was the inventor of the "Section" thing AFAIK...




Guzman originally set up 18 sections, but that was when all the Deconica species were still in the genus Psilocybe.

Here's his explanation:

Quote:

Gaston Guzman said:
To divide the genus in sections the following characters were used:
1) presence of absence of pleurocystidia.
2) color of the pleurocystidia,
3) form and size of the spores,
4) thickness of the spore wall.
5) presence or absence of an annulus. and
6) bluing reaction.

To delimit species the following characters are the more important (besides the mentioned above):

1) form of the pileus.
2) surface viscid or dry (of the pileus),
3) position of the gills, and
4) structure of the subhymenium and hypodermium.




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OnlineRenegadeMycologist
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Re: Undetermined Section Cordisporae Psilocybe found in Bay of Plenty, New Zeland [Re: Anglerfish]
    #27280082 - 04/24/21 07:30 AM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Not sure those sections match phylo groups, probably not.

Alan should exlain to us how many phylo groups are there in total in Psilocybe, and do they corespond to macro/micro morphology sections, thats all that matters imo.


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Offlineobtuse
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Re: Undetermined Section Cordisporae Psilocybe found in Bay of Plenty, New Zeland [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #27280113 - 04/24/21 08:26 AM (8 months, 21 days ago)

The whole Psilocybe section thing is a bit messed up and depends on which author you go by.  I think it is pretty clear that with proper genetic analysis using 9 to 12 appropriate genes the whole thing can be organised better.  It seems to me that with some good phylogenetics on strong genetic features we can start to make sense of which morphological features are meaningful and which are not.

there are three versions, those by Guzman, those by Singer and those by Noordeloos.

the following is from: Ramírez-Cruz, Virginia & Guzmán, Gastón & Villalobos-Arámbula, Alma & Rodriguez, Aaron & Matheny, P. & Sanchez-Garcia, Marisol & Dávalos, Laura. (2013). Phylogenetic inference and trait evolution of the psychedelic mushroom genus Psilocybe sensu lato (Agaricales). Botany. 591. 573-591. 10.1139/cjb-2013-0070.

Guzmán (1983, 1995, 2004) and Guzmán et al. (2007a) 
Psilocybe s.l.
Sect. Atrobrunneae
Sect. Aztecorum
Sect. Bisporae
Sect. Brunneocystidiatae*
Sect. Blattariopsidae
Sect. Coprophilae*
Sect. Cordisporae*
Sect. Cubensae*
Sect. Merdariae
Sect. Mexicanae*
Sect. Neocaledonicae*
Sect. Pratensae
Sect. Psilocybe*
Sect. Semilanceatae*
Sect. Singerianae
Sect. Squamosae
Sect. Stuntzae*
Sect. Subaeruginosae*
Sect. Zapotecorum*

Quote:

in his worldwide monograph, published an infrageneric classification based on the bluing reaction of basidiomata; pileus shape; presence and type of annulus; growth substrate; form, color, and wall thickness of basidiospores; and content color of pleurocystidia and cheilocystidia. Thus far, Guzmán (1983, 1995, 2004) and Guzmán et al. (2007a) have recognized 19 sections in Psilocybe s.l.




Singer (1986)
Psilocybe s.l.
Sect. Atrobrunneae
Sect. Caerulescentes*
---Stirp Caerulescens*
---Stirp Caerulipes
---Stirp Cubensis*
---Stirp Cyanescens*
---Stirp Mexicanae*
---Stirp Silvatica
---Stirp Yungensis*
Sect. Chrysocystidiatae
Sect. Merdariae*
Sect. Psilocybe*
Sect. Septembres
Sect. Tenaces
---Stirp Puberula

Quote:

Singer (1986) pointed out the presence of chrysocystidia, differentiated sterile cells located in the hymenium that possess a golden inclusion in alkali solutions, as an important character for Psilocybe classification, in addition to
many of the abovementioned characteristics. However, Singer did not consider spore shape and content color of cystidia to be meaningful. Singer (1986) recognized only seven sections, one of them (sect. Caerulescentes) with seven stirps.




Noordeloos (2011)
Deconica
Sect. Deconica*
Subsect. Deconica*
Subsect. Inquilinae*
Sect. Melanotus*
Sect. Merdariae*

Psilocybe sensu stricto
Sect. Atrobrunneae
Sect. Caerulescentes*
---Stirp Caerulescentes*
---Stirp Cyanescens*
---Stirp Serbica*
Sect. Psilocybe*
---Stirp Psilocybe*

Quote:

Noordeloos (2011) divided Deconica and Psilocybe into three sections, each based on the same features considered by previous authors except for the presence of chrysocystidia.




Edited by obtuse (04/24/21 08:53 AM)


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Re: Undetermined Section Cordisporae Psilocybe found in Bay of Plenty, New Zeland [Re: obtuse]
    #27280118 - 04/24/21 08:37 AM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Thanks obtuse!
:borat:


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OnlineAnglerfishM
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Re: Undetermined Section Cordisporae Psilocybe found in Bay of Plenty, New Zeland [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #27280120 - 04/24/21 08:38 AM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

RenegadeMycologist said:
Not sure those sections match phylo groups, probably not.




My thought exactly.

Quote:


Alan should exlain to us how many phylo groups are there in total in Psilocybe, and do they corespond to macro/micro morphology sections, thats all that matters imo.




That would be clades then, not sections, if I'm not mistaken? :shrug:


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Re: Undetermined Section Cordisporae Psilocybe found in Bay of Plenty, New Zeland [Re: Anglerfish]
    #27280129 - 04/24/21 08:59 AM (8 months, 21 days ago)

You guys are such nerds I love it...
:takingnotes:


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Offlineobtuse
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Re: Undetermined Section Cordisporae Psilocybe found in Bay of Plenty, New Zeland [Re: Anglerfish] * 1
    #27280130 - 04/24/21 08:59 AM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:

That would be clades then, not sections, if I'm not mistaken? :shrug:




In an ideal situation, the Sections should match the clades in a Phylogenetic tree.


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OnlineRenegadeMycologist
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Re: Undetermined Section Cordisporae Psilocybe found in Bay of Plenty, New Zeland [Re: obtuse]
    #27280175 - 04/24/21 10:12 AM (8 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

obtuse said:
Quote:

Anglerfish said:

That would be clades then, not sections, if I'm not mistaken? :shrug:




In an ideal situation, the Sections should match the clades in a Phylogenetic tree.



Yeah that would be clades, but I believe it's impossible to construct coresponding 'morphological' sections out of them, since clade trees are made with regards to ITS, and that part of dna is not under evolutional pressure.
All adaptive morphological forms we use to construct genera and sections are result of coding part of DNA, spacing parts are noncoding, maybe full genome analysis could help to establish some sections, but I doubt it's even possible.

Similar thing is happening with all the genera transfers recently which shows traditional taxonomy works only half the time, and usually does not reflect true interconnection of species.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Undetermined Section Zapotecorum Psilocybe found in Bay of Plenty, New Zeland [Re: Mycoangulo]
    #27280399 - 04/24/21 02:34 PM (8 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

angulospora said:
Hi Alan, I was given your address by a friend and have sent you a spore print and some dried cap segments in the mail. I included an email address you can use to contact me directly if you need any more information or samples.





Awesome thank you! I'll email you when I get it.

Quote:

Mycoangulo said:
Does anyone have any information about what section Section Cordisporae is?

Not very much comes up in an initial google search.




The type species of sect. Cordisporae is Psilocybe cordispora, which is not a well known species and no DNA sequences exist, so no one knows what sect. Cordisporae really is.  But it's probably the clade around Psilocybe yungensis/neoxalapesis/banderillensis.  They tend to be small, potent, dark in color and slow growing.


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Offlineangulospora
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Re: Undetermined Section Zapotecorum Psilocybe found in Bay of Plenty, New Zeland [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #27280456 - 04/24/21 04:00 PM (8 months, 20 days ago)

"They tend to be small, potent, dark in color and slow growing"

This describes them perfectly...


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OnlineRenegadeMycologist
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Re: Undetermined Section Zapotecorum Psilocybe found in Bay of Plenty, New Zeland [Re: angulospora]
    #27280472 - 04/24/21 04:14 PM (8 months, 20 days ago)

Feels sad man. Big, potent, dark in color and fast growing, thats a section you want your mushroom to be in


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InvisibleBlazer420
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Re: Undetermined Section Zapotecorum Psilocybe found in Bay of Plenty, New Zeland [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #27280506 - 04/24/21 04:56 PM (8 months, 20 days ago)

Cant wait to eat these tonight with the bro :highfive::highfive::awecid:

BLESS!


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Edited by Blazer420 (04/24/21 04:56 PM)


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Offlineobtuse
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Re: Undetermined Section Cordisporae Psilocybe found in Bay of Plenty, New Zeland [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #27280674 - 04/24/21 08:13 PM (8 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

RenegadeMycologist said:

All adaptive morphological forms we use to construct genera and sections are result of coding part of DNA, spacing parts are noncoding, maybe full genome analysis could help to establish some sections, but I doubt it's even possible.






This group is at least making a start on it:  the Entheome Foundation


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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First ever New Zealand Psilocybe papuana collection! Found in Bay of Plenty, New Zealand [Re: RogerTheRetard]
    #27280946 - 04/25/21 02:03 AM (8 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Blazer420 said:
Cant wait to eat these tonight with the bro :highfive::highfive::awecid:

BLESS!



Ayyyyyyyy WHAT srs no way...

I hear that Psilocybe papuana is on Psilocybe aucklandiae lvl of potency from what Heyowana told me about his papuana trips.

LMK how it goes oi.
:rockon:
Quote:

angulospora said:
"They tend to be small, potent, dark in color and slow growing"

This describes them perfectly...



Fuck yeah dude!!!
:fuckyeah:

I hear that papuana KICKS ASS!!!


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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First ever New Zealand Psilocybe papuana collection! Found in Bay of Plenty, New Zealand [Re: RogerTheRetard]
    #27280947 - 04/25/21 02:03 AM (8 months, 20 days ago)

Quote:

RenegadeMycologist said:
Feels sad man. Big, potent, dark in color and fast growing, thats a section you want your mushroom to be in



:dumblol:


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