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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: The Rife Machine: Quackery at its Best [Re: zorbman]
    #3060420 - 08/27/04 11:17 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

well i was.
I think hospitals should stay the same, but Kaiowas simply said that he'd offer the machine for free. You questioned that using hospitals as an example.

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: The Rife Machine: Quackery at its Best [Re: vampirism]
    #3060431 - 08/27/04 11:21 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

I think anyone should be allowed to recoup their investment and make a reasonable return. I guess it seems heartless to some, but that money can be plowed back into research yielding cures for more people. Everyone benefits.

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Offlinespacedragon
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Ignorance, Aversion & Attachment (the3 causes of suffering) [Re: zorbman]
    #3060460 - 08/27/04 11:35 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Look at what happened to Jesus, MLK, Gandhi and others.




Letting the lessons be told & dying for it is worth it. If the machine doesn't complete a full cure for cancer I'll take it all back (concerning the statements about the machine) -- but I still have faith in the many American doctors & scientists that originally supported it before the gov't stepped in.

Edited by spacedragon (08/29/04 12:17 AM)

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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: Ignorance, Aversion & Attachment (the3 causes of suffering) [Re: spacedragon]
    #3060664 - 08/28/04 12:45 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

a

Edited by matt (08/31/07 06:11 PM)

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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: The Rife Machine: Quackery at its Best [Re: zorbman]
    #3061085 - 08/28/04 03:59 AM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
I still say I wouldn't charge anyone for it.
it would be free in my book.


So are you maintaining that hospitals treat everyone for free and pharmaceutical companies provide their medicines for free? Shouldn't they be allowed to at least recoup their investment in research and development?




I am maintaining that if I am going to "let his out slowly to the public"  I would do it for free, especially if i knew it worked.

that's the compassionate thing to do, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

an no spacedragon, you post isn;t hinged on this one thing, but it IS up for discussion right now :wink:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: The Rife Machine: Quackery at its Best [Re: kaiowas]
    #3062296 - 08/28/04 02:56 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

What about all the other people who could be helped if you charged a reasonable price? Then you could use that money to build even more machines, research more medicines, provide more care. You still haven't addressed that.

Is it more compassionate to give relief to 10 people for free when you could help 30 people for a nominal fee? Or does it just make one feel saintly to give it away? No offense intended, but it doesn't make sense to me.

Edited by zorbman (08/28/04 03:45 PM)

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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: The Rife Machine: Quackery at its Best [Re: zorbman]
    #3062648 - 08/28/04 04:44 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"What about all the other people who could be helped if you charged a reasonable price?"

this doesn't help people at all

"Then you could use that money to build even more machines, research more medicines, provide more care. You still haven't addressed that. "

hehe I realized that I didn't put this idea out yet, but...if you cure someone of cancer, and say to these people "you COULD donate," some people WILL donate money to you. some WILL donate A LOT of money to you. money isn't an issue here at all. besides, if it costs me 700 bucks, with my puny jobs that I have I can buy 4 of them a month. a get to way more than jsut 10 people.

will you be one to tell someone, oh, you don't have money sorry, no can do.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: The Rife Machine: Quackery at its Best [Re: kaiowas]
    #3062721 - 08/28/04 05:05 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

this doesn't help people at all

Huh? Just because you state something doesn't make it true. Where's your explanation of why it wouldn't help people? Or should we just accept everything you say because you're a good person?

money isn't an issue here at all.

I don't know where you live, but on the planet I live on money, rightly or wrongly, IS a big deal. If someone takes the time and effort to make something they deserve fair compensation. Certainly a balance can be struck between giveaway on one end and gouging on the other. It's not an either/or situation.

I don't think relying on donations is very realistic. For example, makers of freeware software write programs all the time that help people and only ask for donations. Guess what? They receive a pittance. People usually don't bother when they can get it for free.

But the software developer doesn't normally have to spend any money for materials and they write it once and they're done. Not so in this case.

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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: The Rife Machine: Quackery at its Best [Re: zorbman]
    #3062757 - 08/28/04 05:11 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"Huh? Just because you state something doesn't make it true. Where's your explanation of why it wouldn't help people? Or should we just accept everything you say because you're a good person?"

true enough. just it never really got how CHARGING someone would ever help THAT person. just me I guess.

" don't think relying on donations is very realistic. For example, makers of freeware software write programs all the time that help people and only ask for donations. Guess what? They receive a pittance. People usually don't bother when they can get it for free."

there's a huge difference between free software, and saving someone's life.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: The Rife Machine: Quackery at its Best [Re: kaiowas]
    #3062794 - 08/28/04 05:18 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

just it never really got how CHARGING someone would ever help THAT person

:rolleyes: Come on man. Obviously I was referring to the benefits the patient would receive from the medicine/treatment.

there's a huge difference between free software, and saving someone's life.

True, but the principle is the same.
People won't pay for what they can get for free.

And if anyone believes that I have some lovely water filled property in Florida to sell you..

Edited by zorbman (08/28/04 05:28 PM)

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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: The Rife Machine: Quackery at its Best [Re: zorbman]
    #3062822 - 08/28/04 05:27 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

"Come on man. Obviously I was referring to the benefits the patient would receive from the medicine/treatment"

hehe i see, I didn't fully read what you put, so your point was, f I charged epople, then I could make more, for other people. 

while yeah I do see this, I still wouldn't.

people donate to causes all the time, and having a cancer cure would be a big one.  huge rather!

think of all the money that gets donated to help find a cancer cure, to help find an aids cure...etc etc, and no result has been found yet.  people still donate though

the priciple in downloading free software, has no correlation with saving others lives.

and no, i don't  expect anyone to believe in what I say, these are jsut my opinions, and you should know that. 

this is a philosophy forum, (in my opinion) a lot of this IS about opinions.  or else I'd ALWAYS have to say, in my opinion :wink:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Offlinespacedragon
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Ignorance, Aversion & Attachment [Re: kaiowas]
    #3062864 - 08/28/04 05:42 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Every form of life has "mortal oscillitory rates" even humans but they're much different frequencies than the ones used to destroy these pathogens. Rife found how to use sound waves to destroy the structures of these micro-organisms. It doesn't emit any EM waves that are harmful to the body. They are set frequencies in the devices & you don't even have to fluctuate the freqs like Dr. Rife had to - it's all done digitally now. There's info around the net but the following is from the literature I received from the company where I got the machine:

The brilliant man who discovered how to destroy these pathogens, by finding their "mortal oscillitory rate" using soundwaves, (similar to a glass breaking from a singer's voice) should be honored & statues made for him.

Even to this day electron microscopes crush everything dead that they're looking at. Dr. Royal Rife discovered a way to monitor a virus while the virus was alive (using a very specialized/customized microscope) & was able to perform tests on these live specimens to find ways to control or kill it.

Many doctors & scientists were totally amazed by him discovering the cancer & aids cure. After using his modified microscope to see a live virus up closely, he knew what to do with them using square-headed soundwaves at specific frequencies that would "shake up" and shatter the structures of these pathogens killing them.

Dr. Rife discovered a way to make a simple hand-held device humans can use to destroy AIDS, Candidiasis, mononucleosis, Hepatitis A, B & C & many forms of cancer. Many doctors held a banquet that year called "The End of all Disease."

At the time earlier in the century, taking flights out to the west coast of the US wasn't very feasible for many of these scientists to see the amazing customized microscope up closely. Therefore, many didn't believe it in spite of the hundreds of well-respected scientists & doctors claiming they saw the cures being administered.

The gov't sent in agents to work in Rife's facility under-cover & the bastards stole parts of his modified microscope & fucked his lab up.

Edited by spacedragon (08/28/04 05:47 PM)

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: The Rife Machine: Quackery at its Best [Re: kaiowas]
    #3062876 - 08/28/04 05:47 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

while yeah I do see this, I still wouldn't.[charge]

Then your decision would cost the lives of those who could have been saved by putting the profits back into research. How compassionate is that?

the priciple in downloading free software, has no correlation with saving others lives.

Sure it does. Freeware relies on donations just as in your proposal. I grant you people would donate more because the benefit is greater, but I'd also be willing to bet it wouldn't even begin to cover the costs of research.

I think your proposal has its heart in the right place, but is misguided. It's a good example of how we need love but we also need wisdom and intelligence. Spiritual aspirations should be grounded in reality to be effective.

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Offlinespacedragon
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Ignorance, Aversion & Attachment [Re: zorbman]
    #3062897 - 08/28/04 05:56 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Yea, I'm grounded in science too. It's a nice vantage point here ya'll should try it.

I highly recommend the way of growing called "HIGH IN THE SKY" that many people have had great results with. It fucking rules and you don't have to use any of your "grid" energy to grow (and the fuzz can't detect it because their helicoptors are made to look for high-energy light signatures.) Simply put buckets of whatever you're growing tied up in the trees & bark on the bottom. When looking up it's very hard to detect & many have planted on Gov't soil to repay their favor of USING us for profit.

Pls check out the book (I found one on Amazon.com) called Invisible Marijuana & Psychedelic Mushroom Gardens. This guy is brilliant & made up to $600,000 a year from the bomb yields of this technique.

Edited by spacedragon (08/28/04 08:17 PM)

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Offlinespacedragon
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Re: Ignorance, Aversion &A Attachment [Re: spacedragon]
    #3063311 - 08/28/04 08:13 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Sorcerers describe their knowledge, their pursuit, as the capacity to see energy directly, see the essence of things. What we do in the world of everyday life is to perceive what we already know. We revalidate the world. Socialization gives us the concepts of what things are, and thus, we never really perceive what is actually there. We know "truth" a priori and all we do from then on is validate it. Sorcery is the act of erasing the a priori. Our world is real because, collectively, we have all agreed to it...Sorcerers know that something far more vast exists than what we have agreed to let our senses perceive.

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Offlinespacedragon
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Re: Ignorance, Aversion &A Attachment [Re: spacedragon]
    #3063367 - 08/28/04 08:37 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Psychic powers and other special extraordinary abilities, such as clairvoyance, prediction, psychokinesis, distant healing and astral travel are possible. The great chi kung master of China, Yan Xin, could change the molecular structure of various liquids 2,000 kilometers away! The great American psychic, Edgar Cayce, diagnosed and healed literally thousands of patients he had never met! It is understandable that most people would dismiss these cases as impossible, yet Yan Xin's experiments were carried out under the strict supervision of China's top scientists, and Cayce's documents (thousands of them) are still available for public investigation at the Association for Research and Enlightenment, Virginia.


The highest stage of meditation is the divine level, where a person accomplishes his greatest achievement, and where, as described above, the great teachers of the various religions attained their union with the Divine. Because of historical, linguistic and cultural differences, this spiritual fulfilment is described in different terms by people of different cultures. Muslims call it the return to Allah; Hindus, the union of atman with Brahman; Taoists, the unity with the cosmos; Buddhists, the attainment of nirvana or Buddhahood.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Ignorance, Aversion &A Attachment [Re: spacedragon]
    #3063548 - 08/28/04 09:38 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Edgar Cayce, diagnosed literally thousands of patients he had never met!

I too, can diagnose people I never met! Zowie! Accuracy is another story altogether. Cayce diagnosed DEAD people as having indigestion problems and many of his diagnoses, were so incredibly vague as to apply to half of all diseases, "I see darkness in your chest region"

HOW DOES HE DO IT?  :rolleyes:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Ignorance, Aversion & Attachment (The3 causes of suffering) [Re: Swami]
    #3063742 - 08/28/04 10:46 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

Well, I liked the case of the man changing the chemicals & even if the guy's healed only 50% or 30% of the targets - that's a cool magical healing era ready to blossom.

Very curious are the reciprocal cases of OBE {out of body experiences} and apparition: the OBE subject, aware the he is operating in some kind of duplicate body, travels to a distant location where he sees a person and is aware of being seen by that person; this person confirms that he saw an apparition of the OBEer at the time that the OBEer claimed to be in his presence. Thus the two experiences corroborate each other.

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Re: Ignorance, Aversion & Attachment (The3 causes of sufferi [Re: spacedragon]
    #3063921 - 08/28/04 11:40 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

But the truth must be told. The fact that the earth revolves around the sun was successfully suppressed by the church for over 200 years. It eventually caused major upheaval in the church, government and thought - a realignment of social and traditional values. That was in the 1800's.

Now about 400 years after the first truth was pronounced we must again face the shocking facts. The "horrible truth" the government has been hiding from us over 40 years. Unfortunately the "horrible truth" is far more horrible than the government ever imagined.

In its effort to protect democracy, our government sold us to the aliens. And here is how it happened. But before I begin I'd like to offer a word in the defense of those who bargained us away. They had the best of intentions .[my addition - keep an open mind at least until you see Alien VS Predator == We might wanna side with these Elohim for the time being]

Germany may have recovered a flying saucer in 1939. General James H. Doolittle went to Sweden in 1946 to investigate reports of "ghost rocket" UFO's - 1000's of which had been sighted over a 7 month period.

The "horrible truth" was known by only a very few persons. They were indeed ugly little creatures: shaped like praying mantises and who were more advanced than us by perhaps as much as a billion years. Of the original group that were the first to learn the "horrible truth" several committed suicide - the most prominent of which was Defense Secretary James V. Forrestal who jumped to his death from a 16th story hospltal wlndow. Secretary Forrestal's medical records are sealed to this day.

President Truman qulckly put a lid on the secret and turned the screws so tight that the general public still thinks that flying saucers are a joke. Have I ever got a surprise for them.

In 1947 President Truman established a group of the 12 top military and scientific personnel of their time . They were known as MJ-12 . Although the group exists today, none of the original members are still alive. The last one to die was Gordon Gray, former Secretary of the Army, in l984. As each member passed away, the group itself appointed a new member to fill the position. There is some speculation that the group known as MJ-12 expanded to at least several more members.

There were several more saucer crashes in the late 1940's: one in Roswell, New Mexico; one in Aztec, New Mexico; and one near Loredo, Texas, about 30 miles inside the Mexican border.

Consider if you will the position of the United States government at that time. They proudly thought of themselves as the most powerful nation on earth having recently produced the atomic bomb, an achievement so stupendous that it would take Russians 4 years to catch up and only with the help of traitors to democracy. They had built a jet aircraft that had exceeded the speed of sound in flight. They had built jet bombers with intercontinental range that could carry weapons of enormous destruction. The cold war had brought economic prosperity and the future seemed bright.

Now imagine what it was like for those same leaders, all of whom had witnessed the panic of Orson Wells' radio broadcast, "The War of the Worlds," in 1938. Thousands of Americans panicked at a realistically presented invasion of earth of beings from another planet. Imagine their horror as they actually viewed the dead bodies of those frightening looking little creatures with enormous eyes, reptilian skin and claw-like fingers. Imagine their shock as they attempted to determine how these strange saucers were powered and could discover no part even remotely similar to components they were familiar - with no cylinders or pistons, no vacuum tubes or turbines. The stories are legendary of transporting crashed saucers over long distances, moving only at night, purchasing complete farms, slashing through forests, blocking major highways, sometimes driving 2 and 3 lo-boys in tandem with an extraterrestrial load a hundred feet in diameter.

http://www.geocities.com/hyperdigm/lear.html

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Offlinetnecseda
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Re: Ignorance, Aversion & Attachment (The3 causes of sufferi [Re: spacedragon]
    #3063939 - 08/28/04 11:45 PM (19 years, 6 months ago)

space dragon,you should just start making indivual posts
you'll get the attention deserved and needed.
i sometimes have trouble keeping up with everything.
if you have something to post,start a new thread.some people are turned off by this thread.so i think its just wise advice if you want to reach more people here.

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