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InvisibleAsante
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Where's Waldo?
    #27273094 - 03/28/21 12:43 PM (3 years, 14 hours ago)

Which comes closest to your beliefs about what happens when you die?

.
Where's Waldo?
You may choose only one
Can you be a bit more specific please?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (03/28/21 03:43 AM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante] * 1
    #27273100 - 03/28/21 12:47 PM (3 years, 14 hours ago)

nothing to vote on there for me.

after death you live on in other people who continue to carry you in their lives.

during life you are a dynamic pattern but you are not what you think you are (anatta)

Icelander was obsessed with death, and has gone to meet his obsession, at his own hand I do believe.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27273111 - 03/28/21 12:53 PM (3 years, 14 hours ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
nothing to vote on there for me.

after death you live on in other people who continue to carry you in their lives.

during life you are a dynamic pattern but you are not what you think you are (anatta)

Icelander was obsessed with death, and has gone to meet his obsession, at his own hand I do believe.





Provided in 6 billion years those people are not arround, are you then, gone? are you an annihilationist?


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27273117 - 03/28/21 01:00 PM (3 years, 14 hours ago)

It's largely up to me, I become an immortal spirit or I just cease existence. I thought about becoming one with god, but who knows, maybe I will do that, although it isn't dissimilar to ceasing existence.

Edited by teknix (03/28/21 01:07 PM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27273137 - 03/28/21 01:17 PM (3 years, 14 hours ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
nothing to vote on there for me.

after death you live on in other people who continue to carry you in their lives.

during life you are a dynamic pattern but you are not what you think you are (anatta)

Icelander was obsessed with death, and has gone to meet his obsession, at his own hand I do believe.





Provided in 6 billion years those people are not arround, are you then, gone? are you an annihilationist?



I am more of an evolving community memorist
what are you?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27273152 - 03/28/21 01:25 PM (3 years, 14 hours ago)

I'm the totality of everything in all of its guises, currently in the guise of Asante replying to you.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27273159 - 03/28/21 01:30 PM (3 years, 14 hours ago)

so if you are pretending to be Asante?
i'm pretending to be groucho marx!


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27273177 - 03/28/21 01:43 PM (3 years, 13 hours ago)

There is no pretending involved, Asante and you are appendages of me, extensions, logical conclusions of the wedding between the interactions and amount of energy contained within this particular universe, this one guise of me.

every part of me is essential to the whole because it is a manifestation of the laws and constants this universe consists of.

You are as important as a grain of sand and as insignificant as the milky way galaxy.

Theres levels of you, the level that is all things and, for instance, the ego.

But everything and everyone, its all you.

Each part contains the whole and is solely comprised of the whole.

The level of you that is pretending to be groucho marx is perhaps not aware of the level of you that IS Groucho Marx.

You're speaking, in your post, from the part, I'm speaking, in these 2 posts sandwiching yours, from the Whole.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27273200 - 03/28/21 02:08 PM (3 years, 13 hours ago)

I think you could be mixing up one part with the other part, and the devil is certainly in the details.
Anyway, if you cannot just get it together for a bit and be one or the other, well, it's a great act if you can get away with it!


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27273230 - 03/28/21 02:27 PM (3 years, 13 hours ago)

"So did he tell you why he did it? Why you're here? ... Jeez-us! What a mind job. So you're here to save the world. What do you say to somethin' like that?"

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27273232 - 03/28/21 02:29 PM (3 years, 13 hours ago)

"Just between you and me, you don't believe it, do you? You don't believe this guy is the One?"

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27273255 - 03/28/21 02:41 PM (3 years, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I think you could be mixing up one part with the other part, and the devil is certainly in the details.
Anyway, if you cannot just get it together for a bit and be one or the other, well, it's a great act if you can get away with it!






Perhaps its you who doesn';t understand, and solve the dilemma by projecting your confusion over the one telling you that which confused you.

Since you don't seem intent on finding out, we'll never know.


--------------------
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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27273261 - 03/28/21 02:45 PM (3 years, 12 hours ago)

Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

None of the above. Its pointless to come here for any of the three.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27273266 - 03/28/21 02:48 PM (3 years, 12 hours ago)

This debate-oriented forum is for the discussion of philosophical ideas that can be backed up with some sort of thoughtful logic and reasoning. Topics may include epistemology, ethics, metaphysics/ontology, the psychology of mind and the sociological study of cultural and individual behavior. Personal attacks will not be tolerated, though critical analysis of the ideas presented is encouraged. If you wish to express your ideas in a less critical environment, consider visiting our Spirituality & Mysticism forum.

Often people play the devils advocate even when they agree with the premise, to further discussion.

A "guise" as you say, it's not limited to your abilities :P

I personally kinda sucks at it, but I try it sometimes.

You can't know if what someone is saying is their personal view, only that they are critically analyzing or questioning the one that is presented, unless of course they tell you.

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27273277 - 03/28/21 02:57 PM (3 years, 12 hours ago)

The premise being based in belief, leaves a lot to be desired in philosophy. It's kinda hard to nail down opinions and beliefs. Is someone going to debate you that your opinion or belief is not your opinion or belief?

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: teknix]
    #27273317 - 03/28/21 03:19 PM (3 years, 12 hours ago)

Quote:


This debate-oriented forum is for the discussion of philosophical ideas that can be backed up with some sort of thoughtful logic and reasoning.




If you feel that that's being done here, have fun with it.

There isnt even the beginning of a proper inquiry.

I'm out.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante] * 1
    #27273328 - 03/28/21 03:26 PM (3 years, 12 hours ago)

Here Asante:

https://simplicable.com/new/falsifiability#:~:text=Experiments%20%20%20Alternative%20Hypothesis%20%20%20Causality,%20Natural%20Experiment%20%205%20more%20rows%20

There is not anything innately malicious going on, it's imagined.

"Falsifiability is more or less synonymous with testability as it applies to testing that a hypothesis is incorrect. Generally speaking, no amount of experimentation can prove that a hypothesis is correct but a single experiment can prove that it is incorrect. This is the reason that falsifiability is an important principle of science."

These sort of rules kinda go without saying, so people who are adverse to ever being wrong, feel like they are attacked. I don't mind being wrong, and I generally appreciate it that someone took time to show me the inconsistencies in the hypothesis. (When genuine)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: teknix] * 1
    #27273336 - 03/28/21 03:34 PM (3 years, 12 hours ago)

I am not sure who left, exactly was it the great big eternal Asante? or the little weenie beanie account holder like me which is only superficially different.

anyway he gets away with it all the time - it has become his modus operandi, and I don't blame him, there is room enough.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27273342 - 03/28/21 03:37 PM (3 years, 12 hours ago)

Difficult to pick because it's a matter of identification. I am (my personality matrix and genetic expression) like a bubble in a boiling pot. I have a relatively short life, but there are plenty of bubbles. When this particular body drops, it's particular expression pops. All the qualities that made it a bubble are gone. But a bubble is a bubble, we could call the overall product of the pot humans, or life, which goes on as long as conditions are favorable.

The universe will likely expire. I suppose that potential remains, that in the context of the/a universe and it's subsequent spacetime, there is a fundamental order which operates in a more continuous way, truly eternal. I don't suppose that consciousness exists in all orders but that consciousness is an eternal potential which is expressed under specific conditions.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27273353 - 03/28/21 03:46 PM (3 years, 11 hours ago)

People trying to get out of being wrong happens a lot, and usually that's about when the fallacies come in. hehehe.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: teknix]
    #27273356 - 03/28/21 03:50 PM (3 years, 11 hours ago)

my hat says "fail better"
and I do try to


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27273361 - 03/28/21 03:53 PM (3 years, 11 hours ago)

:lol:

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OfflineLion
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante] * 2
    #27273386 - 03/28/21 04:15 PM (3 years, 11 hours ago)

What I would like to happen after death is that you get to explore every facet of creation and every conceivable angle of experience for as long as you want, and everything just keeps getting naturally better and better until you merge with the infinite divine consciousness that is akin to billions of atom bombs of bliss going off in every square inch of the universe every second, forever.

I think death is the Great Mystery and, although we can get some familiarity with it, and even see into its nature directly at times, nobody who undergoes it fully understands what will happen. I also think there is a way in which we might falsely divide life from death, when on a deeper level there is perhaps no distinction whatsoever to be made...

If I had to bet everything, I'd bet on some Buddhist ideas being true about passing through different bardos according to the karmas (tendencies conditioned through action) the mind-stream has accumulated; and the momentum of that mind-stream eventually enters a new vessel, a new incarnation, forever and ever until all mind-stream become aware of Buddha nature and subside into it. After which...?


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Lion]
    #27273433 - 03/28/21 05:04 PM (3 years, 10 hours ago)

i die daily
nothing to write about it.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #27273502 - 03/28/21 06:08 PM (3 years, 9 hours ago)

Quote:

teknix said:

There is not anything innately malicious going on, it's imagined.





Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I am not sure who left, exactly was it the great big eternal Asante? or the little weenie beanie account holder like me which is only superficially different.

anyway he gets away with it all the time - it has become his modus operandi, and I don't blame him, there is room enough.





no its not like redgreenvines has any sort of personal bias or anything, wholely imagined.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27273593 - 03/28/21 07:13 PM (3 years, 8 hours ago)

who are you?
not really, really, but really, because really really would mean revealling the little asante's real name, and we do not want that.

in this case I am really wondering if it is the big asante or the little one,
because if it is the little asante who is like me, I would say

"hey, no hard feelings, but you started this whole thing about being infinite and all inclusive, and it is what you do - but there is room for that."

but

if it is the big eternal asante, I would say,

"why do you keep pushing little asante into these situations? and what bias are you accusing me of."


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27273658 - 03/28/21 08:11 PM (3 years, 7 hours ago)

Try looking at it from the perspective that excludes all Asantes, Asante.

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OfflineBig_Dub
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: teknix]
    #27284435 - 04/27/21 10:26 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I like to believe that there is something after life. But it's impossible to verify.

When you consider dreams, out of body experiences, religious experiences, near death experiences, psychedelic experiences, memories, etc for me it seems clear that there is something else to this life.


--------------------
split_by_nine said:
click me you fuck


do the right thing

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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Big_Dub]
    #27284448 - 04/27/21 10:37 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

So your focus point is ain.. the attainment of nothing..

Your focus is next to nothing..

Character development.

Charlemagnes cages.. risks advantageous.. pluty true puddy plateau..

Plutarchi.. plural of the Plutarch form.

Tense awareness is a degree of grip.. as if by a person making a fist..

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InvisibleSamantabhadra
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27284461 - 04/27/21 10:54 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Why isn't "How the fuck should I know?" an option? I don't even know what's gonna happen tomorrow... such is the inherent nature of future-tripping/discourse on death- analyzing things that don't even exist.

At least I won the poll with the "become one with everything" option. :wink:

But of course that would imply I was ever seperate from everything...

Life & Death, self & non-self... sheer nonsense.

Official answer...

"There's no such thing as Death. Life is only a dream."
-Bill Hicks on acid


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The actual essence, pristine gnosis,
cannot be improved upon, so virtue is profitless,
and it cannot be impaired, so vice is harmless;
absent of karma there is no ripening of pleasure or pain
absent of judgement, no preference for samsara or nirvana
~Longchenpa

Edited by Samantabhadra (04/28/21 12:55 AM)

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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27284528 - 04/28/21 12:40 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Please see the quote in my signature.

Also, nobody ever asks HOW's Waldo...? :levitate: :sunny:


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius

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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27284544 - 04/28/21 01:18 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

"The ladder is too profane to be true".  :howyoudoing:


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Offlineuserx
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: sudly]
    #27291217 - 05/02/21 10:53 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

The body is a like shell we shed for the next life, a metamorphosis. We are here for training for the next life. If we are not prepared we stay here for another life, based on the karma of the previous, you could be born an animal.

If you pass 'the test' you get to go to the 'next reality'. There, it is like here, where you have a personality, identity, ego, etc. Similar problems as before, but in a different dimension(axis). There is also evil there but things play out differently, the problems are different and need to be solved by 'people' who were adequately trained to solve it.

Again this 'next reality' is a test for the next next reality. If we pass it... and so on and so forth.

I don't buy into the whole, becoming everything or nothing, everlasting heaven ideas. There are always problems that need to be solved.

Edited by userx (05/02/21 11:01 PM)

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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: userx] * 1
    #27291224 - 05/02/21 11:00 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I believe we can in a sense be reincarnated as trees and plants, but not as mammals, reptiles, fish or birds.

When we pass we can in no uncertain terms fuse with a plant and become a part of it.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: sudly] * 1
    #27291444 - 05/03/21 04:56 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

there is evidence that within this life, you are daily reborn into the same aging body, accumulating or losing merit as you proceed on your unique path.

when you are no longer aging, i.e. when you die permanently, insects, worms, bacteria, plants, and fungus recycle the bits.

there may also be evidence that there is no you in the first place, merely conditioned patterns in the aging body.

so, might as well upgrade morality to make less suffering in the world for all the aging plants and animals etc.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27291586 - 05/03/21 08:02 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

and give others merit so they do better


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with our love with our love we could save the world

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27291603 - 05/03/21 08:12 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

sure.
just keep it loose,
not like a bank giving credit

nor a court giving parole


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Offlineuserx
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27292226 - 05/03/21 02:53 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
there is evidence that within this life, you are daily reborn into the same aging body, accumulating or losing merit as you proceed on your unique path.

when you are no longer aging, i.e. when you die permanently, insects, worms, bacteria, plants, and fungus recycle the bits.

there may also be evidence that there is no you in the first place, merely conditioned patterns in the aging body.

so, might as well upgrade morality to make less suffering in the world for all the aging plants and animals etc.




I can't help but notice when I read the text in your posts, in my peripheral vision I see your image as a unicorn, when clearly its just a human face... and I'm not even tripping. Try it yourself and see if its just me, please!

Edited by userx (05/03/21 02:55 PM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: userx]
    #27292452 - 05/03/21 05:03 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

you mean Harpo Marx in my avatar with at mask on morphs into a unicorn - that would be his hairdo I think. I don't look that great, less hair.
I'm more like Groucho without the mustache painted on.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27293203 - 05/03/21 11:33 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

If somethings there therefore I exist..

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27293546 - 05/04/21 08:15 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Theres overwhelming evidence that all people alive now have been dead before.

Its a bit absurd to believe that de Dead you were 10 billion years ago, before the solar system, is a different kind of death than the one in 10 billion years from now, when the solar system isnt there too.


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Edited by Asante (05/04/21 08:18 AM)

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27293648 - 05/04/21 09:52 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

in a very large cosmic time scale context, one misses all the moment to moment interaction.

it is worth a peak, a poem, a song, but not worth too much dwelling upon.


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27293693 - 05/04/21 10:17 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Theres overwhelming evidence that all people alive now have been dead before.
...




Tibetans think reincarnation so obvious they would wonder why you bother to proclaim an opinion.

Western scientists think reincarnation so stupid they would wonder why you bother to proclaim a dogmatic opinion.

But on the Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology forum we know dogmatism makes the world go 'round!

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #27294236 - 05/04/21 03:53 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Theres overwhelming evidence that all people alive now have been dead before.
...




Tibetans think reincarnation so obvious they would wonder why you bother to proclaim an opinion.

Western scientists think reincarnation so stupid they would wonder why you bother to proclaim a dogmatic opinion.

But on the Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology forum we know dogmatism makes the world go 'round!




I can accept reincarnation, but I cannot accept being reincarnated. I just do not want to be a human or an animal again. To me its a prison, if I'm reincarnated into another prison/person again then its because I didn't do something right.
I'll do whatever it takes to not be reincarnated again. Nothing here is worth being here again, it's all illusion and games, and I want out.

Edited by userx (05/04/21 03:54 PM)

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: userx]
    #27294354 - 05/04/21 05:08 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Existence is suffering


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27294368 - 05/04/21 05:16 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Theres overwhelming evidence that all people alive now have been dead before.
...




Tibetans think reincarnation so obvious they would wonder why you bother to proclaim an opinion.

Western scientists think reincarnation so stupid they would wonder why you bother to proclaim a dogmatic opinion.

But on the Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology forum we know dogmatism makes the world go 'round!





in science its very straightforward that if you roll dice an infinite number of time, each number comes up an infinite number of times.

So, if you assume that, by quantum tunnelling or otherwise, Big Bangs happen once every so often for all eternity, which is spectacularly likely, you will in effect have a situation wherein every coimbination of circumstances plays out  with every possible outcome for all eternity.

There is nothing dogmatic about that, its the assumption big bangs like everything are repeatable and the rest is pure logic.

Western scientists dont think reincarnation is stupid, western science snobs think so.

Infinite reincarnation in every way of every possible circumstance is one of the very few possible outcomes of the universe and in fact one of the more likely ones, as an irreproducable big bang in a completely reproducuible universe is a bit goofy.


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27294382 - 05/04/21 05:25 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Asante, what's your opinion on Rupert Sheldrake morphic resonance theory?


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Big_Dub]
    #27294678 - 05/04/21 09:00 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I think it's valid..

This is the type of something that drugs (psychedelics and dissociatives) teach us/reveal to us.

Everything is interconnected and it's like a concordant (or verdant) crossroads..

The field effect and fresh growing wheat and crops (UFO crop rotation.. travellers of The Men in Black)

Measuring volume is the whole of our science!

And what's going on inside is what counts..

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27294680 - 05/04/21 09:00 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Strings vibrate within the field.. extricate order..

Feelings? 6th sense!

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27297669 - 05/06/21 08:37 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:


... There is nothing dogmatic about that, its the assumption big bangs like everything are repeatable and the rest is pure logic. ...






Actually not so, the big bang, is just the current best guess, to explain certain apparent data. See for example:

https://butnowyouknow.net/2009/05/12/the-big-bang-theory-does-not-represent-science/

its worth reading but here's a short quote:

"By the rules of hard science, it’s not even a theory. A theory can be tested in a way that would be sure to fail if it were wrong. This, with the Big Bang, is impossible so far. So it doesn’t qualify. It is a hypothesis."

Dogmatism is precisely not bothering to question, or to be critical in one's thinking and analysis.

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27297927 - 05/07/21 12:07 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

You can't see gravity dude, and you don't know what the sun's made of, have you been there?

We can't say how old rocks are if we weren't around when they were made, no one actually knows the general range of how old the earth is, and if manatees have the most human like genitalia, how do we know they aren't what sailors called mermaids?

Hmmmmmmm? :yesnod:


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: sudly]
    #27298035 - 05/07/21 03:12 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Is gravity a type of material?

Or is it just perfectly abstract?

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27298036 - 05/07/21 03:12 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Space time curvature as gravity.

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27298037 - 05/07/21 03:14 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

G as the constant.

Gravity/geometry as constant..

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27298038 - 05/07/21 03:16 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Field gravity? Dimensions of experience..

How can one be without experience?

How can matter exist without an experiencer..

Observation IS experience!

Satan Honolulu.

?

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27298048 - 05/07/21 03:46 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
the big bang, is just the current best guess





Quote:

the assumption big bangs like everything are repeatable





Assuming the current best guess is part of an infinitely repeating cycle.

You can do that. Assumption is not dry science.


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27298049 - 05/07/21 03:53 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

The infinite cycle would be after the big bang, and there's not much consensus on the inevitable fate of the universe, whether it's heat death or some kind of cosmic snap back.

It kind of seems like a straw man to bring up something that doesn't even have consensus, when you're meant to be talking about the big bang, something there is relatively more consensus on.


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: sudly]
    #27298125 - 05/07/21 06:17 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I care about celestial scale events that could affect us for the next million years, so that means we have to explore and develop consensual understandings for things that are happening which we cannot see.

Quantum investigations reveal essential relationships that are mirrored in astronomic observations (not an area I am versed in).

Scientific instruments enable us to see gravity in some instances, and radioactive composition can tell us about the age of rocks.

"We" cannot all look at this directly, but some individuals work with the equipment and can declare facts that are not sensed directly by the herd.

there is no conspiracy here. more education is needed, and it is worth the money.


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27298372 - 05/07/21 09:09 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Theres overwhelming evidence that all people alive now have been dead before.

Its a bit absurd to believe that de Dead you were 10 billion years ago, before the solar system, is a different kind of death than the one in 10 billion years from now, when the solar system isnt there too.




Where lol?


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: sudly]
    #27298650 - 05/07/21 12:58 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

.  IMO a scientific mindset is one that welcomes differences & counter arguments;

and a dogmatic, religious, etc. mindset craves to convince others to agree, and is little interested in wether this is achieved by logic, evidence, or controlled experiments or on the other hand, by an appeal to emotion or rhetorical devices; as it simply wants its own beliefs propped up by consensus.

.  There are good reasons why string "theory" is not considered a theory, by most scientists. I know of at least 2:  1) it's not testable, & 2) there are many different versions of it.
.  It is popular because to do the math shows you have a high IQ and 2ndly because it's a way for smart folks to get a lot of grant money, (these days as the foundations with the money don't know much about science), & money really helps when you're an academic type.

.    Reincarnation and "the big bang" are both also hypotheses only, as they are not testable, it's that simple.
.    Also as we all know 'Reincarnation' is indeed in origin a religious idea, that justified the caste system, in India, thousands of years ago, which was & most likely still is a horrible system, similar to slavery in many ways, which Gandhi worked hard to get Indians to overcome,( along with liberating India from the British Empire).

.  Historically the big bang theory is also rooted in religion: "The theory itself was originally formalised by Belgian Catholic priest, mathematician, astronomer, and professor of physics Georges Lemaître."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Big_Bang_theory
and is strangely similar to genesis in the bible: and "Let there be light" ...
and wow it just happened! -- Before there was no time, but suddenly time began---that this is even more unimaginable than 'virgin birth'---gets ignored! -- wow again!

.  And again, this is also worth reading:
https://butnowyouknow.net/2009/05/12/the-big-bang-theory-does-not-represent-science/

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27299101 - 05/07/21 06:19 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I thought the idea was rooted in observations of the recession of nearby galaxies. With the bb being an attempt to explain it. 

You can welcome flat earth theory, but I wouldn't accommodate it.

What's there to accommodate if someone's going to say there's overwhelming evidence of something like reincarnation and then leave it at that.

"Trust me bro, I was Ghandi last save."


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27299317 - 05/07/21 08:55 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

If your waiting to test life with an experiment.. you might miss life itself.. that first thing.. the very epic of and epoch of novelty..

Though reproducible results are good for manufacturing.. testing life isn't everything..

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: sudly] * 1
    #27299410 - 05/07/21 10:19 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
...What's there to accommodate if someone's going to say there's overwhelming evidence of something like reincarnation and then leave it at that. ...




Not sure where you want to go with this. Yes there are thousands that believe in both reincarnation & the big bang and the bible, or some combination of them,
along with other odd beliefs.
No scientists aren't interested in reincarnation or genesis.
And yes scientists vary in their attitudes toward the big bang hypothesis.

Is the idea of time having a beginning, at odds with all our experience - yes.
Is the idea of something more dense than a black hole exploding into everything completely different from the logic most science expects -yes.
Are Einstein and quantum theory also very strange - yes - but they do have many experimental verifications - yes
Does the big bang  have many experimental verifications - no -- its just a guess as to what explains the apparent expansion and background radiation of the cosmos.

Is this summary likely to have any effect on those committed to their beliefs - no.
Might it have some value to those unsure of how to approach the subject? Perhaps, unlikely; but never the less, possibly.

Is a large part of religion guilty of first saying everything must have an explanation, but the only explanation possible is that God made it all because otherwise its too complex to have happened, but then saying God can't be explained -- and doesn't the big bang hypothesis follow the same pattern? And doesn't this pattern run counter to the best efforts of science in general? And isn't it peculiar how eager many are to ignore this?

Seems many people simply can't handle not knowing, and so latch onto anything that promises them a tidy predictable world, endorsed by some sort of authority. In general humans are not very impressive, which is another aspect of our nature many are uncomfortable with, having been raised by parents with unrealistic expectations. In youth this manifests as the desperate desire to be cool. Then folks become adults and acquire status symbols. Those who go for concepts acquire beliefs, and if they are still more intellectual they acquire academic degrees. Never the less the world remains uncertain and mysterious, which for those who are more relaxed is part of its charm.

Edited by laughingdog (05/07/21 10:40 PM)

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27299662 - 05/08/21 04:48 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

yes, I agree to increase the charm do relax.


however, I would not like to oversimplify the physics theories around the big bang: as Sudly suggests, there are computations that put the event(s) 13.8 billion years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

this is more reasonable than the 7 day Genesis idea to me.

Yet, I prefer not to agonize over it, and what may have come before the BB - although it shows how locked into a paradigm of time and space and particles which are terribly convincing to my existence.

time itself may have attributes that are inconceivable to me and my quantum dimensional ignorance.


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27300239 - 05/08/21 02:18 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
yes, I agree to increase the charm do relax.

...however, I would not like to oversimplify the physics theories around the big bang: as Sudly suggests, there are computations that put the event(s) 13.8 billion years ago. ...






.  As no one knows what goes on in black holes, although atoms are presumably collapsed, - but are the elementary particles themselves collapsed so that all that remains is a quark soup?
.  Since there is no answer to such questions, and the supposed singularity from which the big bang began, must have been unimaginably more dense, I doubt there are really any accurate models for either the 'singularity' or the so called 'big bang'.
.    There is also the ignored problem of where the singularity itself came from, or why it appeared and so on , it really all smacks of the same sort of mythology as religion.
.    At least religion doesn't pretend to be reasonable. The good side of religion is when they all go to church sing together, have picnics, and donate to charities and do good works; forget their arguments and feel good together.
.    A bad side of science is when it pollutes minds, with muddled 'thinking', for which unfortunately the are lots of precedents in the history of science.
.    That their so called model coughs up one believable date, is for me scant evidence, that it is correct, in any other way. IMO the whole theory really has no more fundamental explanatory power, than the story of Genesis (2 different stories actually), or the idea of God or Gods.
.  Folks are just desperate to avoid lack of closure, the unknown, and the sense of wonder they lost long ago in childhood, when they were shamed for being ignorant, by their parents, older kids, teachers, and preachers; IMO. Tim Leary took enough acid to get over it, and it is said, his favorite saying was: "I don't know". I'm ok with that too.

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27300336 - 05/08/21 03:43 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
yes, I agree to increase the charm do relax.

...however, I would not like to oversimplify the physics theories around the big bang: as Sudly suggests, there are computations that put the event(s) 13.8 billion years ago. ...






.  As no one knows what goes on in black holes, although atoms are presumably collapsed, - but are the elementary particles themselves collapsed so that all that remains is a quark soup?
.  Since there is no answer to such questions, and the supposed singularity from which the big bang began, must have been unimaginably more dense, I doubt there are really any accurate models for either the 'singularity' or the so called 'big bang'.
.    There is also the ignored problem of where the singularity itself came from, or why it appeared and so on , it really all smacks of the same sort of mythology as religion.
.    At least religion doesn't pretend to be reasonable. The good side of religion is when they all go to church sing together, have picnics, and donate to charities and do good works; forget their arguments and feel good together.
.    A bad side of science is when it pollutes minds, with muddled 'thinking', for which unfortunately the are lots of precedents in the history of science.
.    That their so called model coughs up one believable date, is for me scant evidence, that it is correct, in any other way. IMO the whole theory really has no more fundamental explanatory power, than the story of Genesis (2 different stories actually), or the idea of God or Gods.
.  Folks are just desperate to avoid lack of closure, the unknown, and the sense of wonder they lost long ago in childhood, when they were shamed for being ignorant, by their parents, older kids, teachers, and preachers; IMO. Tim Leary took enough acid to get over it, and it is said, his favorite saying was: "I don't know". I'm ok with that too.



there is no closure supposed in the big bang theory at all, nor in the mystery of the quark soup of a black hole, these however are two questions about the universe that remain relevant to the universe and to us within it.

this is different than the mythologies to which you are comparing it.
those stories have little to no poetic correspondence to reality as we know it.

and yes, reality is real even if we do not understand all of it - it is there, and we are part of it, amazed and mystified, and trying to make sense of what we can with the best tools we can devise.


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27300981 - 05/09/21 12:54 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Maybe I can rephrase it, what evidence is there of reincarnation?

Quote:

laughingdog said:Is a large part of religion guilty of first saying everything must have an explanation, but the only explanation possible is that God made it all because otherwise its too complex to have happened, but then saying God can't be explained -- and doesn't the big bang hypothesis follow the same pattern? And doesn't this pattern run counter to the best efforts of science in general? And isn't it peculiar how eager many are to ignore this?




A lot of religious people do say that god is the explanation behind a variety of phenomena, and that god works in mysterious ways, true.

With BB there is a phenomena that has been observed, that is the expansion of the universe. The BB is one suggestion for why this might be.

It's like dark matter, there's reason to believe it may exist, but that evidence hasn't materialised yet.

But it's like with radios, that took a long time to discover the electromagnetic fields, and one day we might discover more.

Maybe one day we'll solidify the evidence and prove the BB, maybe one day we'll discover the universe is the school project of an omnipotent being.

The BB isn't in anyway a religion, it's an idea of why something might be, and when new evidence arises I'm sure it will adapt to what comes its way, because that's what science does.

Quote:

laughingdog said:Seems many people simply can't handle not knowing, and so latch onto anything that promises them a tidy predictable world, endorsed by some sort of authority. In general humans are not very impressive, which is another aspect of our nature many are uncomfortable with, having been raised by parents with unrealistic expectations. In youth this manifests as the desperate desire to be cool. Then folks become adults and acquire status symbols. Those who go for concepts acquire beliefs, and if they are still more intellectual they acquire academic degrees. Never the less the world remains uncertain and mysterious, which for those who are more relaxed is part of its charm.




One thing I've recognised is that there is a lot of probability in the world, and I'm comfortable in my belief that the probability of the Sun rising the next day is in my favour.


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: sudly]
    #27301117 - 05/09/21 05:17 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I used to think that expansion of the universe includes all objects and matter within it as well, and that that expanding outward acceleration could explain gravity itself, as matter drags through a medium being pushed away from larger expanding material like the planet pushing the buildings and all the people that stand on it out from its center.

it is a weird thought experiment.


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27301696 - 05/09/21 02:31 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

.    Of course if the elementary particles were themselves expanding the ratio of the space between them, to their own size would remain the same.
.    If rulers expand at the same rate as what they are measuring there is no way to tell they are both expanding and of course visa versa, if everything shrinks at the same rate.
.    Therefore everything could be constantly vibrating and we would never know it. Which perhaps calls into question the whole notion of stability, as well as the notion of certainty in general.

.    And calls into question what the big bang is supposed to explain or what any "theory of everything" is supposed to explain with certainty. Sort of seems like the idea of relativity in some ways, as well as why Buddha refused to answer the speculative questions about the universe, (especially when the questioners had not solved the problem of personal suffering in their own lives, which was what he claimed to teach).

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27301723 - 05/09/21 03:01 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

true!


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27302440 - 05/10/21 04:32 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

So the saying goes..everything is made up of particles waving at each other?

5D..empire state of mind..Lovers (re)unite! 666

4th differentiation as a time cube..cuts the cost of time into a half percent.

All corners are perfectly or imperfectly sharpened

3rd degrees in error? yes with perplexing curves and rare harmonies and melodies..

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: sudly]
    #27302521 - 05/10/21 06:32 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Maybe I can rephrase it, what evidence is there of reincarnation?





Has there been any human ever who wasn't completely dead and gone a century before they were born?

What evidence is there for us NOT emerging from Death into Life?

13.8 billion years ago, quite possibly, the Universe was a billion times hotter and denset than boiling gold, and voila, here we are. And we say: "no one can emerge from death."





Quote:



Do people think they will be left without purpose?

Were they not ˹once˺ a sperm-drop emitted?

Then they became a clinging clot ˹of blood˺,1 then He developed and perfected their form,

producing from it both sexes, male and female.

Is such ˹a Creator˺ unable to bring the dead back to life?

Surah Al-Qiyamah 75:35-40





Is not the Totality of Everything able to give life to the dead, and did it in fact not do so, evidenced by us being here now?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27302640 - 05/10/21 08:36 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Asante, with all due respect, no and no.

but your enthusiasm is contagious, which can be a good thing in an election year


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27302739 - 05/10/21 09:38 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Re: Asante

Reincarnation is presumed to be wonderful some how, probably simply because many fear death.
But a moments thought shows that:
1) memory is generally rather poor to begin with
2) it deteriorates with age
3) no one who is healthy & happy, wants to spend much time reminiscing
4) photo albums are more fun when shared
5) no one remembers early infancy
6) in infancy the brain is different
6A) it is unmyelinated
6B) it has more possibilities (for learning different languages) and gets 'pruned' later
7) much of life is full of suffering, from the horrible pains of childbirth, teething, diseases, divorce, & loss of loved ones to mention a few of countless forgotten pains
8) much off old age is miserable as a visit to any old age or nursing home will show
9) So no one would really want to remember, or could remember countless lives
10) remembering every meal one had just least week is next to impossible
11) and the taste of every bite totally impossible
12) in old age one looses many former skills and often deteriorates slowly
13) to repeat all these unavoidable unpleasant experiences, in slightly different forms, endlessly would be both pointless, and if one had any awareness of the process a nightmare that would drive one insane.

.  So really if one dares to think about it in detail, the idea that reincarnation might be a blessing is naive. In fact reincarnation  is considered to be something to be overcome, by future better reincarnations, until the process is permanently transcended, in eastern religion, which originated the concept.
.  Trust Americans to turn something understood to be negative by those sophisticated enough to have invented the concept, into a Disney Land one can sell tickets to.

Edited by laughingdog (05/10/21 09:48 AM)

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27302843 - 05/10/21 10:54 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

The implications of #s 9, 10 & 11 above

[....9) So no one would really want to remember, or could remember countless lives
10) remembering every meal one had just least week is next to impossible
11) and the taste of every bite totally impossible ...]

... are that forgetting is a form of constant painless death, and experiencing a form of constant rebirth. If we had to remember vividly the taste of previous meals while eating the present one, we could not enjoy the present one. Or even the taste of the broccoli from the main course while eating a sweet dessert. Constant dying is a necessity.
.  And memory is identity, So with every forgetting some identity dies. We see this in cases of amnesia, and in coma, where life continues but the self manufactured by memory has been lost.

.  Fear of death makes fools of us. We conceptualize death as the opposite of life, begin to cling to life and identity, and fear loss of identity, beliefs, preferences, and death. But all personal growth is based on letting go of outworn beliefs, childish notions, and baggage acquired from parents, teachers & other authorities, emotional hurts and misunderstandings. A healthy identity is flexible, playful, and humorous one.
.  The inflexible alternative is perhaps best seen when one looks at the artifacts in an Egyptian tomb. Perhaps the ultimate in insecurity, defended by an effort to freeze time, into the seemingly known certainty of the present.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=egyptian+tomb+artifacts&t=hc&va=u&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=egyptian+tomb&t=hc&va=u&iax=images&ia=images

Edited by laughingdog (05/10/21 10:56 AM)

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #27302937 - 05/10/21 12:01 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I do not agree with
Quote:


5) no one remembers early infancy
6) in infancy the brain is different
6A) it is unmyelinated




Axons in the brain are myelinated enough to allow memory creation before birth, but full white matter myelination is not complete until 2 yrs old - actually not complete until growth is full size - and as far as I can tell, the human brain works most perfectly during infancy - the brain has already been forming memories for months by the time of being born, an event that is assumed to be a traumatic change of existence.

The reason people are not accessing early memories is that the memory content is not meshed with with contexts that we have since become much more familiar. It is not parceled with recognizable events and words are disorganized sounds.

Early memory does have a lot of visual content but most of early memory is proprioceptive and visceral - exploratory: touch and muscle group discovery, hunger, rooting, eating contexts and tooth pain contexts during teething. As social interaction (in the family at first) becomes more established, interest and activity drives the process of memory formation in more formal human ways.

Diaper changes and other infant experience memories would be more accessible if people were less full of themselves, but aspects of those memories are part of memories of dressing, eating, toilet activity, and bathing.

Myelin is all about ensuring that long axons do not lose signal strength or become shorted out (i.e. function as electrical insulation) - Myelin may also be involved in keeping the neurons nourished.

I see no reason to imagine that the brain at birth does not form memories, or to assume it would be normal to remember early memories since they are so contextually different than what we experience now.

bear in mind most of what we sense after infancy is peppered with perception (fragments of memories of similarly sensed events and classes of similar objects and situations) while the infant has little memory to contextualize against, so sensation plays a much greater role in infant consciousness and memory formation than does perception.


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27303136 - 05/10/21 02:54 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

.  Assuming all of what you say about infancy & memory is correct,
(which seems a big assumption , considering I know of no one who has ever claimed
access to such material, of heard of such memories from others, or seen such a claim, with lots of day to day material, and specific events, in any published material, & especially not with any corroborating evidence);
it still does not invalidate the main arguments, I make about the ancient doctrine of reincarnation.

.  It is true that Stanislaw Groff and Otto Rank make claims about birth trauma, but in general, no one that I have ever met or heard of, has claimed access to such material. Not even those I've met who did Groff's breathing protocol, or done lots of trips.

.  As regards personality, and child development of course there are many major changes, that reorganize identity. Many stages are well documented, so I won't or pretend to give an accurate summary of child personality development. Pre and post puberty is perhaps the most dramatic along with the attitude changes that accompany it. However other major changes in functioning have to do with imagination and fantasy. The idea common among unreflective adults that they have always been, who they feel they are, is as silly as a butterfly having the same notion IMO.

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27303368 - 05/10/21 05:54 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said: Has there been any human ever who wasn't completely dead and gone a century before they were born?

What evidence is there for us NOT emerging from Death into Life?

13.8 billion years ago, quite possibly, the Universe was a billion times hotter and denset than boiling gold, and voila, here we are. And we say: "no one can emerge from death".




Has anyone not been dead before they were born??

That might grammatically make sense, as in it is a sentence, but if it makes sense? No, not imo.

Not having memories of previous lives is a start.

And don't forget!


(+5 if you make this your new avatar)


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27303506 - 05/10/21 08:17 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

babies in the early months definitely learn a lot of things, I have only visited my grandson a few times during covid, but he is definitely aware, responsive, and remembering and leaning into what interests him, just as his mom did more than 35 years ago.

but whether it works as I say it does or not, makes no difference with respect to past lives. if they exist.


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #27305282 - 05/12/21 06:41 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

8) much off old age is miserable as a visit to any old age or nursing home will show




My dad built a boat from plate steel in a field, sailed to Portugal in it with his 20 years younger second wife, eventually sold the boat and now has two properties, including one with olive trees, orange trees, a veggie garden and well, if I send him something in the mail a guy on a donkey delivers it to him, they spend their time going from BBQ party to BBQ party, live music, jolly villagers with their own vinyards..

He's 80 years old and obese.

Old age isnt miserable, not having a plan and being carted off to an old folks home is.

Old folks homes are for the people who failed at life.


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27305285 - 05/12/21 06:46 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Asante, with all due respect, no and no.





You're not created by the totality of everything? Why am I not suprised.

:doge: such reasoning, such discussion.  Just No and No.

You guys are mentally masturbating on shared views and if someone has views not shared you won't even try do anything meaningful with them.

Life isnt miserable, you guys are.

Have fun.


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27305395 - 05/12/21 08:25 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

8) much off old age is miserable as a visit to any old age or nursing home will show




My dad built a boat from plate steel in a field, sailed to Portugal in it with his 20 years younger second wife, eventually sold the boat and now has two properties, including one with olive trees, orange trees, a veggie garden and well, if I send him something in the mail a guy on a donkey delivers it to him, they spend their time going from BBQ party to BBQ party, live music, jolly villagers with their own vinyards..

He's 80 years old and obese.

Old age isnt miserable, not having a plan and being carted off to an old folks home is.

Old folks homes are for the people who failed at life.



yay
i'm gonna be your dad soon but not obese


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Asante]
    #27305402 - 05/12/21 08:27 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Asante, with all due respect, no and no.





You're not created by the totality of everything? Why am I not suprised.

:doge: such reasoning, such discussion.  Just No and No.

You guys are mentally masturbating on shared views and if someone has views not shared you won't even try do anything meaningful with them.

Life isnt miserable, you guys are.

Have fun.



i am created by the totality of everything which means that the effort to oversimplify or validate cause and effect are difficult to determine.
this is not mental masturbation, which would be more of just saying anything pleasing until the world is gushing.


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OfflineSTPLSD25
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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27317417 - 05/21/21 11:24 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

My beliefs are sort of similar to Taoism. I believe as long as you have desire or lead a harmful life, you will keep reincarnating, but when you rid yourself of attachments to the world like desires, and lead an admirable life, then you actually pass on to the next plane  of existence


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"The State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence"." ~Mahatma Ghandi



“It is through separation that you will win: no representatives, and no candidates!”
― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: STPLSD25]
    #27317532 - 05/21/21 12:46 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

you have a version of taoism that is too concerned about consequences in an afterlife.

when do you think the whole confusion about
"it will come back to you later" and
"it will have consequences in your next life" begin?

probably older than taoism and totally obvious


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27318007 - 05/21/21 08:29 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

So your whole foundation is in this moment..

You must make amends!

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27318280 - 05/22/21 05:03 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

the afterlife proposal attempts to corral the behavior of committing crimes that people get away with.

apparently it is not enough for some people like Donald Trump to accept a narrative truth in which they are caught red-handed.

lying apparently can get you out of jail.

therefore, convince everyone that karma is not the truth about action in this 'honest' life, but a cosmic deal with a devil or with god, in which you destroy your future lives aka soul, after lying and getting out of jail and dying and being reborn or heaven and hell.


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27318323 - 05/22/21 06:00 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

what produces heaven and what produces hell
we can tell
all of os always about all of it

so we have to be like angels even practice it get closer to it approach it


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27318416 - 05/22/21 07:33 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

yes, heaven and hell are art forms, or artifice.
I prefer heavenly art and actions than hellish ones.


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27318666 - 05/22/21 10:58 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

yes and it's a good point we wouldnt get it better from dying with hellish ones either
it's more begun and easier with heavenly ones


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Ferdinando] * 1
    #27322752 - 05/25/21 02:57 PM (2 years, 9 months ago)

The brain is an organ and when it ceases, so does our consciousness and bodily functions. I don't believe there's anything after that.

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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: shockplague0]
    #27323567 - 05/26/21 07:36 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

that is a fair beginning;
it limits the scope of observation to what is observable about life, while living.

need there be a wider scope?


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27323588 - 05/26/21 07:49 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

no you're always right so many proofs of life being positive grinding teeth not being shoked in spit


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Re: Where's Waldo? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27323590 - 05/26/21 07:50 AM (2 years, 9 months ago)

sweet guy open minded and 40 years ahead of me in terms of progress and spiritual and psychological and getting somewhere etc.


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