Home | Community | Message Board


World Seed Supply
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Seeds Store buy cannabis seeds, Buy CBD   Amazon pH Test Strips, Scales, The Doors

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleJenny
part of thewhole
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/03/00
Posts: 5,614
Loc: Columbus, OHIO
Agree or disagree?
    #2727287 - 05/25/04 12:52 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)


"Any method that uses an agent outside the complete body/mind of a human has limitations. Only the freely acting unified body/mind is capable of full power. Drugs, for example, are one of the easiest ways to open the doors to higher (or lower) powers. Marijuana opens the fourth brain circuit and makes a connection with the Neurosomatic fifth brain circuit, bringing a vision of bliss, peace, and well-being. Pot, however, can go no further and the person relying on pot to get them into the higher brain circuits will lose the power to act independently to reach their own higher visions."

i read this today and thought it was a fairly interesting statement. I'm no chemist, so i don't know the actual affects on the brain when inhaling pot. I have always wondered about pot (being a nonsmoker), and I was curious to see what other peoples opinions on this are.

:rasta: :stoned:
:stash: :bong: :spliff: :hippie:


--------------------

Mindfulness is the aware, balanced acceptance of the present experience.
It isn't more complicated than that.
It is opening to or recieving the present moment, pleasant or unpleasant, just as it is,
without either clinging to it or rejecting it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePed
Interested In Your Brain
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/31/99
Posts: 5,494
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 11 months, 1 day
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: Jenny]
    #2727320 - 05/25/04 01:03 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Words like "fifth brain circuit" sound like abstractions to me, but the essential point of the text is clear. One cannot rely upon marijuana or other substances to escort them to more desirable mindstates. In fact, such reliance can become a disasterous step in the opposite direction. It takes personal effort toward inner tranformation. I agree with this completely.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleNariusFractal
Sat Chit Ananda
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 804
Loc: USA
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: Jenny]
    #2727325 - 05/25/04 01:04 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

woah

although where did you get that? Deoxy.org or whatever?

That is largely conjecture.  However, from personal experiences that I can draw upon, when I don't smoke pot anymore I can still use my imagination the way I could when I am high.

I mean that I can still experience bliss, feelings of peace, and an active imagination.  Is that the fourth circuit connecting to the fifth?  I don't know  :shrug:


--------------------
You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleNariusFractal
Sat Chit Ananda
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 804
Loc: USA
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: Ped]
    #2727332 - 05/25/04 01:06 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yes! Exactly what I was thinking concerning these phrases as abstractions. You put it very eloquently. I have been smoking for 2 years so maybe I should just quit?


--------------------
You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePanoramix
Getafix
Male

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 634
Loc: Everywhere else
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: NariusFractal]
    #2727395 - 05/25/04 01:23 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, I mean, I smoke pot largely to make my relaxation-time more 'productive' and fulfilling.  Instead of watching tv or reading I can smoke a bit and draw or write.  But if I don't have any pot and I feel the inclination to draw or write, it's not like I can't come up with ideas because I'm not stoned.  That'd be silly. :smirk: :smirk: :smirk:
If I'm stressed out or unhappy I find that's when calm, creativity, euphoria, and suchlike are beyond my grasp.

Bottom line, the brain/mind is more complex than some piece of electronics with fifth or sixth circuits and even if you're ingesting a chemical that simulates some regions of your brain/ inclinations of your mind and mental mannerisms via neurotransmitters, there's still a whole lot going on besides that.


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: Jenny]
    #2727434 - 05/25/04 01:35 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Jenny said:
Any method that uses an agent outside the complete body/mind of a human has limitations.




Agree. I would assume that all methods have limitations.

Quote:

Only the freely acting unified body/mind is capable of full power.




I agree only if "full power" is still limited and is not necessarily distinguishable from the limits of drug use.

Quote:

Drugs, for example, are one of the easiest ways to open the doors to higher (or lower) powers.




I cannot evaluate this abstraction.

Quote:

Marijuana opens the fourth brain circuit and makes a connection with the Neurosomatic fifth brain circuit, bringing a vision of bliss, peace, and well-being. Pot, however, can go no further and the person relying on pot to get them into the higher brain circuits will lose the power to act independently to reach their own higher visions."




I also can't evaluate these abstractions.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePanoramix
Getafix
Male

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 634
Loc: Everywhere else
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2727474 - 05/25/04 01:47 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, I mean, talk about stating opinion as fact!  :wtf: :tongue: :tongue:

I bet on some level in most instances they maybe very well be right.  Maybe in some situations with ragards to some folks their thoughts may be right and reasonable.  But what their assessments of pot smoking fail to take into account is that not everyone who smokes pot (I'd say a relatively small minority, actually) just sits around all day smoking pot.  I don't know about the rest of you, but myself, I don't have a money tree in my backyard, nor the investment capital and private space required to grow my own pot.  As for the actual science involved and its being highly applicable to all instances, that's been disproved for me by simple anecdotal evidence I've come across.


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: Panoramix]
    #2727511 - 05/25/04 02:03 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

On some levels I could agree that technically you are limited if you take a drug, I don't think that was the meaning of the quote. Obviously, if you drink alcohol your figure skating abilities are going to be limited compared to if you're sober, but I interpreted the original quote as being about mental capabilities and I don't see any reason to think that all of those are necessarily limited when you're on a drug. I also believe that it's possible that a drug could enhance certain abilities.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblejux
I'm better thanan STD!

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 924
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: Jenny]
    #2727525 - 05/25/04 02:06 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Meh, Probably all comes down to how you define happiness? Me, a chemical reaction that is interpreted by my being as positive stimulous. Therefore, whether it's smoking a bowl, drawing a picture, or banging your gf, it's all happiness and it's all works in a similar way.

There is no difference between happiness and "true happiness" ... just different ways to get there.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePanoramix
Getafix
Male

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 634
Loc: Everywhere else
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2727541 - 05/25/04 02:11 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I wouldn't even say enhance, necessarily, but rather alter in a way some people (myself included) find enjoyable, engaging, interesting and of value to my lifestyle. On the other hand, I can totally see how some people might dislike the experience. I just can't quite figure out what causes the abhorrence of it you find with some people. I guess a misunderstanding and fear of the drug. Some people!

Sorry, having some lil issues with a housemate...


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineTwirling
Barred Spiral
Male

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 2,468
Last seen: 4 hours, 9 minutes
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: Jenny]
    #2727549 - 05/25/04 02:14 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Jenny said:
Pot, however, can go no further and the person relying on pot to get them into the higher brain circuits will lose the power to act independently to reach their own higher visions.






That sounds more like pseduo-science than anything else. There really isn't any neurology at work here.

Besides which, from my own experinces, I've easly found it to be wrong. What usually happens is meditation while sober is strong, and marijuana makes it even stronger. Then the next time I meditate sober it's more intense. So if marijuana can take you "no further", than how is my meditation while sober, stronger?


I do however, agree that there is a certain limitation in being dependent on any substance. But to say that marijuana will limit anyone who uses it, is bullshit. Besides, it's been used culturally in meditation for thousands of years. It all depends on the person and how it's used more than anything else.


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineViveka
refutation bias
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: Jenny]
    #2728379 - 05/25/04 05:32 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)


Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring
Banana Phone
Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring
Banana Phone!
I've got this feeling. So appealing.
For us to get together and sing, SING!



Why the hell does this song play whenever I open this thread? ?!!?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePanoramix
Getafix
Male

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 634
Loc: Everywhere else
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: Viveka]
    #2728816 - 05/25/04 06:53 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, I got that too, but I just opened the file instead of saving it, which is a shame because I'd dearly like to set it up as my answering machine message...


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineWorldbridger
Nemo Lotus

Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 1,479
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: Jenny]
    #2728837 - 05/25/04 06:57 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I imagine this was spawned from ideas taken from the Eightfold Model of Consiousness, which can be read about on www.deoxy.org. However that paragraph holds too many errors. For example it is pot that tends to open the fifth circuit (the neurosomatic circuit), not the fourth (the social-sexual circuit). I think perhaps what is suppose to be meant is that humans can only learn what they are biologically and insturmentally equipped to learn at their current point on the evolutionary scale. In order to evolve, they have to literally change their brain structure, or re imprint their brain, through such ways as psychedelics.

I think this information taken from one of the pages on erowid should sum up a little more information:

"from Exo-Psychology by Dr. Timothy Leary Ph.D

This information presents a neurogenetic ontology - a theory of eight levels of reality and their interaction.

All realities are neurological-patterns of impulses received, stored and transmitted by neural structures. Consciousness is defined as energy received by structure. Intelligence is defined as energy transmitted by structure. For the human being the structures are neural circuits and their anatomical connections. Please re-read the last three sentences.

For thousands of years ontologists have speculated futilely about the nature of reality. There can be no more room for debate. Surely the nervous system determines every aspect of human reality. What is "real" is what is registered by nerve endings, coded in neural memory banks, and transmitted by nerve fibers.

The ontological question is so easily resolved we wonder why there was ever any confusion. After all, the circulation of the blood was understood four centuries ago. The structure of the nervous system, the fibrous wiring of the sense organs, and the connections to the brain are so anatomically obvious that one is puzzled at the inability of earlier anatomists and physiologists to understand that the nervous system is the seat of consciousness and thus the solution to many ontological questions that had vexed and confused man's thinking. We face here, perhaps, another contrived, deliberate stupidity, a protective myopia, a species taboo which shrouds attempts to explain consciousness and intelligence-expanding processes. The facts about the nervous system are too robot embarassing, too challenging to larval theological and political systems. It is just too early on the evolutionary clock for the species to face the neurological facts, for the robots to decipher their own circuitry.

Four-brained humans cannot accept a scientific neurogenetic ontology which places reality within the changing flux of the nervous system and not in the comforting solidity of the imprinted-conditioned reality-islands. "Man the Machine" is an unbearable concept to those who are not ready to mutate beyond the lower, robot circuits.

One cannot evolve from one's robothood until one realizes how totally one has been robotized. A succinct presentation of this point will be found in Gurdjieff's comments on mechanization quoted by Ouspensky: In Search of the Miraculous."


Edited by Worldbridger (05/26/04 12:10 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXibalba
Stranger
Registered: 05/14/00
Posts: 2,114
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: Jenny]
    #2731053 - 05/26/04 05:31 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)



Edited by Xibalba (09/30/05 12:50 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: Xibalba]
    #2731498 - 05/26/04 10:47 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I think extended periods of excess sobriety can be almost as bad. I feel like sometimes, when I've been sober for too long, I sort of forget who I am. A large part of me, at least, and what life is all about, what things matter and what don't.



I can definitely relate to this. I've been relatively sober for a while now(except for a little alcohol) and lately, I've been feeling the call of the sacred mushrooms once again, like they have something more to teach me.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineWorldbridger
Nemo Lotus

Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 1,479
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: Xibalba]
    #2731599 - 05/26/04 11:38 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Xibalba said:
That's Leary's 8-circuit model. Really any kind of pop psycho-philosophy that creates a certain number of categories of things and then tries to fit everything into one of them is, to a greater or lesser degree, bullshit. ( a great reductio ad absurdum of that whole trend can be seen in Donnie Darko...) So read between the lines and don't take it as some kind of religious gospel, or, god forbid, a scientific theory... But as one of many possible semienlightening oversimplifications- he still has something intelligent to say.

In my (unpopular?) opinion, marijuana is abused by the majority of those who use it. Including myself, at times.

Used in moderation, it's a mild psychedelic with significant antidepressant and anti-anxiety properties. Good for the sense of humor, gets rid of creative blocks. Vastly improves one's experience of music, nature, and sex.

Used excessively- meaning every day for an extended period of time, the above effects almost completely disappear and are replaced by negative side effects. ( becomes primarily sedative, with apathy, dimwittedness, paranoia and memory loss. )

So, when I can't notice any visual distortions from weed and my thoughts feel slurred, it's time to take a break. It's easier to just keep smoking it if you've got it, and it will still make you feel somewhat good no matter how high your tolerance is.

Can you only really reach your full mental-spiritual potential by doing it without drugs? I think it's a bit of a clich? to say this, and it is also usually just taken on faith to be true.

I think extended periods of excess sobriety can be almost as bad. I feel like sometimes, when I've been sober for too long, I sort of forget who I am. A large part of me, at least, and what life is all about, what things matter and what don't.

I'm not sure about higher or lower 'circuits,' but THC can kick your mind out of a bored rut of mass-culture tunnel vision into a state of hyper-awareness and, maybe more importantly, hyper-appreciativeness of the world around you that I think is good for your mental health to experience every now and then. Just as being able to smoke a joint and chill the fuck out is probably good for you, too.
So I think if you are able to limit your smoking to the point where it is useful to you, and not want to do it any more often, then you are likely doing well on the 'inner' mental evolution thing already, and it's not holding you back.

Also in my opinion; DMT (or rather, that-thing-that-happens-when-we-get-a-lot-of-DMT-in-our-brains-at-once) is the Real Deal.
Partly since it is inside our complete body-mind to begin with, and partly because [.....]

It's just too bad no one here knows how to use it yet.




Have you read all of Timothy Leary's Eightfold Model of Human Consiousness? Or are you just speculating it is bullshit? Everyone has a religion whether or not they beleive it or not. What you are saying is just your own tunnel reality. Robert Anton Wilson likes to refer to any beleive system as bs. But the Eightfold Model seems to work for him the best. No matter what you are always going to be using some model of reality to explain the world around you that you are living in. I think The eightfold model of reality sounds much more expandable for new ideas and based on much more scientific grounds than your model.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineWorldbridger
Nemo Lotus

Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 1,479
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: Worldbridger]
    #2731699 - 05/26/04 12:13 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Xibalba: The Eightfold Model of Consiousness leaves room for an infinite amount of models within its model, so I know you havn't read it. You should check it out at www.deoxy.org. Scroll down on the left frame to THE EIGHTFOLD MODEL OF HUMAN CONSIOUSNESS. There is a lot more to read than My tiny quote from within the site.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,276
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 5 months, 10 days
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: Jenny]
    #2732081 - 05/26/04 02:23 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I don't really know about the number of circuits you are referring to but i can tell you, from personal experience, that consuming too much can take you to a state of anxiety which is very unpleasant, so tells my 11 years of experience with the substance.
One has to be reasonable, now i just smoke pot to relax and btw, yes my immediate memory is still affected.

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXibalba
Stranger
Registered: 05/14/00
Posts: 2,114
Re: Agree or disagree? [Re: Worldbridger]
    #2732375 - 05/26/04 03:18 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)



Edited by Xibalba (09/30/05 12:50 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Seeds Store buy cannabis seeds, Buy CBD   Amazon pH Test Strips, Scales, The Doors

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Timothy Leary's Eight Circuits of Consciousness imstoned420 3,399 8 07/10/13 01:00 PM
by redgreenvines
* Timothy Leary's 8-Circuit brain model spud 1,272 6 10/31/02 11:28 PM
by Cosmic_Monkey
* Leary's Eight Neurological Circuits (+ Robert Anton Wilson) Tonearm 1,310 15 12/23/03 02:17 PM
by Tonearm
* Wilson-Leary Eight Circuit Brain Model Cosmic_Monkey 1,393 10 08/27/02 02:17 PM
by CosmicJoke
* Analogies of Consciousness CosmicJokeM 1,922 10 05/30/01 10:15 PM
by fun_guy
* Friendship and Disagreements Swami 571 5 12/10/04 09:48 PM
by uriahchase
* Short Circuit ... uriahchase 579 3 06/15/05 11:02 AM
by WanderingStudent
* some crazy shit
( 1 2 all )
Kokserek 2,024 34 02/13/04 04:37 PM
by trendal

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
1,986 topic views. 1 members, 1 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Shroom Supply
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.039 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 18 queries.