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OfflineOz_Salvia
Conservative
Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 165
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27579383 - 12/12/21 10:13 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Another thing, I read about 4 years ago an article in Rolling Stone about Western Australia being an ecological disaster because they built it up and brought the water in from elsewhere, which sounded a lot like the Western U.S., probably more accurately South Western.




Perth being the main population centre of WA is on aquifer water and the 101 of that is if it doesn't recharge in a commensurate rate to withdrawal it will run out.

It's not like the rainfall is increasing the recharge to meet population ad economic user growth. So it's evitable they will run out unless a multi-facet approach of recycled water and sea water desal in applied.

They have massive PV potential that can power desal and pump vast volumes of water. They can even wrap that project of PV into a high voltage DC interconnector to sell power to the lucrative east coast of Australia. Being a continent there are 3 hours difference in time so Sydney before dawn for example can be powered on WA sunshine. Conversely WA evening and into the night a/c can be powered on Eastern Australian sunshine. These are peak times for power use and the most profit to be had.

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Invisiblesudly
Quasar Praiser

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,594
Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Oz_Salvia]
    #27579491 - 12/13/21 01:42 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Sweden has capitalist elements and strong social welfare, cuddly capitalism as it's referred to.

The strong social welfare and capitalist elements are what makes the difference between Venezuela and Sweden. Yes capitalism has its role to play, but just as important are strong social welfare programs.

Strong social welfare is also a big difference between Sweden and the US. With Australia we have decent social welfare.

It's not required to take every legislation from Sweden, even one at a time, sometimes it might seem counter intuitive to even have welfare due to costs. In the long run though, the costs of doing something like housing homeless people is more cost effective than having them go though the medical and policing system that overall can cost more.

Quote:

Some early research on this produced truly mind-boggling results like a Central Florida Commission on Homelessness study indicating that the region was spending about triple on policing homeless people’s nonviolent rule-breaking as it would cost to get each homeless person a house and a caseworker. More recent, somewhat more careful studies, were a bit less enthusiastic about the cost-saving potential but still highly positive.

A 2017 RAND Corporation analysis of the Housing for Health program in LA County concluded that the county saved about 20 percent by putting people with complex mental health issues in supportive housing rather than relying on law enforcement and emergency room visits.

A 2015 randomized control trial of a housing-first approach across several Canadian cities saw essentially no change in money spent (Canada’s structurally lower health care costs are likely a factor here) but gains in quality of life and community functioning.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2014/5/30/5764096/homeless-shelter-housing-help-solutions





War and capitalism go together like bread and butter.

There's a history of racism in numerous countries, if you're not racist, who cares!!

My assumption is that in 20 years, if the rules change to make it harder for those people, I'd be able to acknowledge it.

I get the point that you've really got to rely on yourself in life and do things that benefit you in the end.

Quote:

It's inevitable in the years forward it will implode in costs and private will be the only means. Ask yourself, are you going to be in a position to brace that?




Yeah. But who says it's going to implode? I see a lot of services are on the chopping board, several hundred in fact.

I equate something being legal not meaning it is not an apt candidate to be changed. My comment on the fact of something being legal not meaning it shouldn't be changed seemed to miss.

I am 'CIS' and I detest the over complication of labels.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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OfflineOz_Salvia
Conservative
Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 165
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: sudly]
    #27579520 - 12/13/21 03:05 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Taxes are greater in the US than in Sweden.
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Sweden/United-States/Economy/Tax/Components-of-taxation

Quote:

War and capitalism go together like bread and butter.




Doesn't hold up when viewed through the Communist era who had one third of the world in a totalitarian grip because they waged wars of aggression to expand their control. In the end it cost the Soviet Union in the graveyard of empires. I'm old enough to remember the height of the Cold War. Your memory would have started around 911. None the less we still have North Korea and the CCP. The story hasn't finished with Marxism because it is based on political violence by revolution (civil war).

Quote:

I get the point that you've really got to rely on yourself in life and do things that benefit you in the end.




Yep, so minimise tax however you can and legally and don't be guilted by WOKE'ery that it's on par to slavery or some other hysteria. If you have a circle of friends like that, fire them, and associate with success-minded individuals. You want to associate with people who think for themselves not wanting to be cool by being seen as a good-hearted Leftie.

Quote:

Yeah. But who says it's going to implode? I see a lot of services are on the chopping board, several hundred in fact.




Welfare alone is 180-bil a year. I don't see that surviving as we go forward nor do I see a lot of the social experiments working out including free medical. You are aware of the limits to growth? Even I'll have to change my investment thesis. The good days will come to an end.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/sustainability/climate-change/563497-mit-predicted-society-would-collapse-by-2040

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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Oz_Salvia]
    #27579988 - 12/13/21 12:25 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Is this Bronwyn Bishop? This ruling class arrogance towards the peasants reminds me of her.

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Invisiblesudly
Quasar Praiser

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,594
Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Oz_Salvia]
    #27580102 - 12/13/21 02:24 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

I support elements of Sweden's strong social welfare program, that said, some of them I certainly do not.

Paying higher in taxes seems to be a godsend if you have children because you get value for your money on parental leave and childcare which can often cost enough to make one partner a stay at home parent.

Education and healthcare are important, and everyone regardless of children benefits.

The US is militarily engaged in 6 countries, none of which are communist.

You are fire :lol:
Something being legal doesn't mean it has to or should be.

It sounds to me like you think a wealth tax is a communist ideal.

It can cost more to let people get injured, be unable to pay their debt and remove them from contributing to the economy as a whole.

I think we're pretty aware of how climate change is looming over us. Even water scarcity could collapse societies.

But if it's going to be healthcare that does the deed, it'd be nice to see it in print.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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OfflineOz_Salvia
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Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 165
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27580447 - 12/13/21 07:48 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Is this Bronwyn Bishop? This ruling class arrogance towards the peasants reminds me of her.




Is this the best you have, a veiled ad hominem, as an argument, when I've thoroughly beaten every nonsense you have posted?

Your claim your mate Bob Brown kicked off renewables in Australia in the 1990's is totally false, and I've already shown you he has stopped large renewable plants. So go on, double down and demonstrably show your pal was the maestro per your claim in the 90's. :lol:

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OfflineOz_Salvia
Conservative
Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 165
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: sudly]
    #27580482 - 12/13/21 08:21 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Something being legal doesn't mean it has to or should be.





The rest of what you have posted could bang on backwards and forwards no end and it's barely even Australian in politics. Though I will say it's not my responsibility to look after others' sprogs if they have them. They enjoyed the fucks so they can fuck off. Same as paying for a roof over their head. That's their responsibility.

Now what is relevant, however, is the divide on the view of paying taxes.

I'm a firm believer in minimising taxes and so are all people who want to get ahead. So much so there's an entire investment class who do, which is why Scott Phillips of Motley Fool wrote this article years back on "How I’m beating the tax man — and you can too…"; and in it he quoted Kerry Packer - legend material. Yes, very much promoting franked shares; the very investment vehicle the Leftist ALP with Shorten wanted to tax (and he lost :laugh2:)

https://www.fool.com.au/2014/06/03/how-im-beating-the-tax-man-and-you-can-too/

Point is you can get all indignant, stamp your feet, pound your chest, strut up Swanson St or Pitt St with a Socialist flag while wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt crying out about the injustice of it all; or you can just get on with your own shit.  :goodluck: 

It's that simple.

It's not my job to sway you and for you to see the reality. That's your call.

What is fact is there are fellahs your age already on their way to mils. They're not wasting time. I already pointed you to a thread on this sub-board where losers whined 16 years ago and nothing changed to how they wanted it. The wealthy instead simply got wealthier. That's how it will go to the very end, because as Warren Buffet said: “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”


Quote:

I think we're pretty aware of how climate change is looming over us. Even water scarcity could collapse societies.




And when times get grim who do you think can afford the best seats? Not the piss ant socialist student sorts waving their XR-flags, because in any language they're screwed - they're urban losers who have no idea how to grow diddly or can set up off-grid. Instead, getting yourself into a position offering buffer and learn new practical skills is the best path. To do that you need capital. :rockon:

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Invisiblesudly
Quasar Praiser

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,594
Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Oz_Salvia]
    #27581731 - 12/14/21 11:31 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Talking about taxes is a universal issue.

I mostly want accountability on govermnent finances including donations. When a corporation or individual makes a large donation to a politician or party, I would like to have decent transparency on that.

There's no harm in talking about change.

Saving money and investing is a good way to make money, and it takes a lot of dedication and patience, I get that, it's a way to get a foot up in the world.

I'm not a fan of bribery.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Posts: 6,234
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Oz_Salvia]
    #27581933 - 12/15/21 04:41 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Oz_Salvia said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Is this Bronwyn Bishop? This ruling class arrogance towards the peasants reminds me of her.




Is this the best you have, a veiled ad hominem, as an argument, when I've thoroughly beaten every nonsense you have posted?

Your claim your mate Bob Brown kicked off renewables in Australia in the 1990's is totally false, and I've already shown you he has stopped large renewable plants. So go on, double down and demonstrably show your pal was the maestro per your claim in the 90's. :lol:




I'll be happy when they start taxing people like yourself at a higher rate, mainly because I feel you deserve it, which I why I voted for it last election. I called it the "I've done fuck all to earn my money tax" I wish Bill had got that one over the line.

How's that for a political point?

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OfflineOz_Salvia
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Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 165
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27581947 - 12/15/21 05:03 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:

I'll be happy when they start taxing people like yourself at a higher rate, mainly because I feel you deserve it, which I why I voted for it last election. I called it the "I've done fuck all to earn my money tax" I wish Bill had got that one over the line.

How's that for a political point?




Haha, very bitter grapes of the politics of envy. :lol:

Your good mate Bill lost and with that your ship sailed on seeing me pay a cent more than I already don't! Yep, Albo is not going to continue that loser policy of taxing franked dividends.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-02/albanese-attacks-morrison-dumps-franking-credits-policy-election/13027630

"I can confirm that Labor has heard that message clearly and that we will not be taking any changes to franking credits to the next election," Mr Albanese said.

Yep, same taxes and no changes to what the LNP has done. :wink:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/labor-dumps-negative-gearing-backs-tax-cuts-20210726-p58cxs.html

In a strategy to focus the next election on the government’s response to the coronavirus pandemic, Mr Albanese said a Labor government would deliver the same legislated tax relief to more than 9 million Australians who earn over $45,000 as the Coalition. He said by doing so, Labor was providing “certainty and clarity” to Australian families.

Yep, no CGT and negative gearing changes. Australians don't want your loser Bill mate's taxes. :tongue2:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/labor-to-dump-bill-shorten-s-negative-gearing-and-capital-gains-policies-20210211-p571qw.html

Labor is expected to dump Bill Shorten’s negative gearing and capital gains tax policies, but remains undecided on how best to tackle housing affordability.

"I've done fuck all to earn my money tax" - pure schadenfreude for me. :dancer:

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Invisiblesudly
Quasar Praiser

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,594
Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Oz_Salvia]
    #27582752 - 12/15/21 04:40 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

No comment on accountability :wink:


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Invisiblesudly
Quasar Praiser

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,594
Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Oz_Salvia]
    #27582912 - 12/15/21 07:12 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Are you okay with corporate subsidies and bailouts?


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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OfflineOz_Salvia
Conservative
Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 165
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: sudly]
    #27583084 - 12/15/21 10:33 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
Are you okay with corporate subsidies and bailouts?




Let's keep this to an Australian example and of recent times being Virgin Airlines (VA); or we'll get bogged down in the GFC bail outs of Wall St by Main St which is US politics/markets (despite the Left having no problems with bailouts when Rudd did that blowing the dough Howard left in the pantry).

That said, I agree with these 7 reasons on why VA should have been left to collapse (per link). Basically it's not the Government's responsibility to bail out weak corporations with poor P/E results esp. if that has gone on years as it did with VA. Nor was it of systemic importance. Basically free market should dictate survival and Black Swans happen. If one can't invest/manage with that in mind they may as well give up being a CEO and/or an investor.

https://www.unsw.edu.au/news/2020/04/7-reasons-why-a-government-bailout-is-not-possible-for-virgin-au

I'll now cite another Australian example, one that's not a bail out but instead a subsidy by way of grants, being the Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA).

Now one would be hard pressed to find a Leftie against ARENA when they have and for years been funding start-ups and new renewable energy technologies from the public purse. Where the Lefties get upset is when this same vehicle is driven by LNP to fund their pet projects. Yet to me in makes no real difference as it's federal coin spent manipulating the energy market.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/arena-to-get-1-4-billion-as-coalition-channels-funds-to-ccs-hydrogen-and-pubs-20675/

ARENA – which is now nearly exhausted of funds, and had its board recently stacked with Coalition favourites – is to be given “guaranteed baseline funding” of $1.427 billion over the next 10 years, and will be given extra allocations in the annual budget. For 2020/21, that will amount to $191 million.

This is part of a $1.9 billion package to the two green funds that will include money for CCS, a regional hydrogen hub, along with many of the project identified by a group led by former Origin Energy CEO Grant King, and even some money for pubs to upgrade their refrigeration systems.



My personal view on subsidies, grants, bailouts, new taxes and so on, per government manipulation of the markets, never works out. Free market interference creates an uneven playing field as it is zero sum: some win at the others' expense and political cronyism can play a big hand in such favouritism. What's more, such "free money" is always squirreled away by the better at slight of hand than the government who never earned it. This leads to corruption. Recall the 4-billion the ALP blew on the insulation scheme? No checks and balances yet invoices were paid on insulating entire high density complexes which didn't exist on blank blocks of land!

We know this recipe fails and endlessly; just look at the attempts to "fix" the current property crisis. One of the latest hair brain schemes is to allow first home buyers to dip into their super. It will kick the can down the road with no appreciable improvement because the extra demand by an increase of new buyers will simply widen the market gap the policy absurdly tried to close. The rub gets worse as these same people it was supposed to have helped will instead radically reduce their future nest egg.

https://www.afr.com/policy/tax-and-super/super-for-housing-would-send-prices-soaring-20211214-p59hhc

Allowing first-time property buyers to divert $60,000 or more from superannuation would increase home ownership rates but would send house prices soaring, new modelling shows.

Such a scheme, which has been pushed by Liberal MPs, would add nearly $69,000 to the price of the average house in Sydney, $108,000 in Melbourne and $159,000 in Adelaide, according to a report commissioned by The McKell Institute.


All I want is a Lassie Fair market economy and that's what Packer said back in 1991 when he suggested the bureaucrats repeal a regulation when they bring in a new one. Otherwise we'll have piles of laws no one understands and we're not better off for it. I gave the video link of his wisdom earlier in this thread. But it is what it is with continuous market interference trying to correct problems created by previous correction attempts.

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Offlineviktor
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27583252 - 12/16/21 04:15 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Is this Bronwyn Bishop? This ruling class arrogance towards the peasants reminds me of her.




He's not even ruling class, he merely has a bit of money.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: viktor]
    #27583682 - 12/16/21 12:38 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

... yet can't understand why not many people want to listen and or agree?

Proving money can't buy everything.

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OfflineOz_Salvia
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Registered: 04/14/20
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27584254 - 12/16/21 09:57 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:

Proving money can't buy everything.




Money won't buy happiness but poverty is misery.

Also it's not me who wants to take what's yours where as you'd like to on me.

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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Oz_Salvia] * 1
    #27584413 - 12/17/21 03:27 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Nah, the main difference between you and me is that I couldn't care less if the value of my house was halved, as long as it meant the current generation of first home buyers got to own one.

Home ownership shouldn't be such a struggle. We don't need rich people thinking that flipping houses
with dad's money is a noble way to earn a dollar, it's not, it's ugly and vulgar and completely obnoxious.

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OfflineOz_Salvia
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Posts: 165
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27584429 - 12/17/21 04:37 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nah, the main difference between you and me is that I couldn't care less if the value of my house was halved, as long as it meant the current generation of first home buyers got to own one.




Fools rush in on assumptions. You think I've made my money off property?

I do have some property shares per construction (funny that, that's the scene you're in i.e. electrician); but the main sum is across other sectors: such as retail, technology, banking/finance, mining, agriculture, medical, foreign exchange and precious metals. My investments generally grow businesses and that employs people (I have covered how that rolls in this thread). So go check your Super and what it is made up of? It will be across a broad range of sectors and should be to manage risk. Do you trash talk others whose folios are like or similar to yours? Difference is I manage mine.

Aside the roof over my head I own that's it. I'm an equities investor and always have been. Equities outclass property and that's a fact but they take a good deal more understanding than just buying bricks and mortar with a hold view.

If property takes a serious dip so be it. I doubt it will. At best it will correct by moving sideways until the next leg up.

Your virtue-signalling about caring zero if property halves is hollow because: 1.) it won't happen; and 2.) it's no actual loss to you. So you can talk shit to big note, yes. You might even get your leg over with some of them here who believe it.

:yes:


Quote:

Home ownership shouldn't be such a struggle. We don't need rich people thinking that flipping houses
with dad's money is a noble way to earn a dollar, it's not, it's ugly and vulgar and completely obnoxious.




Okay, cite where I have said I do that?

FYI I grew up with little and collected cans as a kid to make a dollar. I knew from a young age the value of a dollar. If you go back in this thread I was asked if I had inheritance. It's all in this thread being the one you created and seem to have lost track of. I'll save you the time, I got to where I did by my own graft.

And worth repeating to get this straight: where you wanted to get your hands on what I have was your vote to Shorten, a radical fuckwit, to unleash a double-dip tax on franked dividends. He rightfully lost that federal because it was an attack on the retired. Deal with it.

:docbrown:

Bill Shorten the 'most dangerous left wing leader in generations', says Malcolm Turnbull

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/bill-shorten-the-most-dangerous-left-wing-leader-in-generations-says-malcolm-turnbull-20170812-gxuug0.html

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OfflineOz_Salvia
Conservative
Registered: 04/14/20
Posts: 165
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: viktor]
    #27584443 - 12/17/21 05:31 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Is this Bronwyn Bishop? This ruling class arrogance towards the peasants reminds me of her.




He's not even ruling class, he merely has a bit of money.




The sledges go on. :rolleyes: Still unemployed, on the weed and leaning on the system? Hopefully not. It's why I minimise taxes as I don't see much value in supporting dole bludgers. Please stay in NZ as we have way too many on the purse kiwis in Oz. If you want to have happiness fund it yourself.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23099383#23099383

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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Oz_Salvia]
    #27586178 - 12/18/21 12:50 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Oz_Salvia said:
It's all in this thread being the one you created and seem to have lost track of. I'll save you the time, I got to where I did by my own graft.

And worth repeating to get this straight: where you wanted to get your hands on what I have was your vote to Shorten, a radical fuckwit, to unleash a double-dip tax on franked dividends. He rightfully lost that federal because it was an attack on the retired. Deal with it.






Some of us out here in 'the public' don't view that tax as double dipping.

If the dividends are taxed and the investors get to claim the money back then the scheme is tax free.

A lot of us don't think that's fair, especially when we are talking about private retirement incomes of around 50 grand a year plus whatever is left of the pension.

Like geeez do you lot want the shirt off our backs as well?

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