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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: twighead] * 1
    #28329514 - 05/22/23 05:30 AM (8 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
China has been moving towards establishing bases in the soloman islands & vanuatu - directly off the coast of Aus and hemming in Australia's northern ports  - which literally serve no purpose other than an offensive one against Australia - potentially threatening the trade route between the US/AUS..




I don't agree with this either. Are you sure you haven't swallowed too many anti-China pills? :flowstone:

Solomon Islands PM rules out China military base and says Australia is ‘security partner of choice’


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: twighead]
    #28330207 - 05/22/23 04:08 PM (8 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Choosing to go with domestic upgraded subs is an option - but one way or another to bring it up to speed they would need to buy and incorporate some kind of foreign tech, --- The platform is dated, it would take a full redesign to match this project. The in between path of acquiring Virginia class subs makes sense, the platform is extremely well tested, and has proven its reliability & capability to be consistently upgraded with top of the line tech 




If the platform is dated after a few decades, it only sounds more plausible that by 2040 or 50, this platform will also be outdated, and by golly for what might be suggested after that.

Do I feel safer having a few subs sit by the coast with missiles? Or having more investment in education, infrastructure, mental health, physical health, energy etc.

Quote:

for better or worse - Australia lacks the military research and inventions to outfit their own military.... I don't doubt that they could make it happen with time, but so far it's been overall cheaper to just buy from the US...




Sure, the tech developments are great, but cut some subs and invest the tens if not hundreds of billions saved from that into such research instead.

Cheaper to buy from the US? The is the most expensive waste of money with lack of diverse investment and little to no relative job creation I've ever heard of in Australia.

No one can say 80 million is a worthwhile investment to create a single job over any  other investment and sound reasonable when it isnt necessary and there are numerous alternatives to invest in. That even half the sub investments would be put to far better use if diversified.

And if you don't know how much of a black hole funding for the F35 was, we in need of an update here.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28330426 - 05/22/23 07:29 PM (8 months, 2 days ago)

They're all blak n holey
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Quote:

twighead said:
Everything about it? I mean it's literally false lol. Like I said there's valid criticism but we both know that take isn't a reflection in any way of the reality. Ofc there are pros and cons to US military presence in the area (but this $ has nothing to do with it and you know it) - it could be portrayed as causing undue tension with China, or 'painting a target' on Australia - but the other aspect of it, is having by and far the most powerful navy and air force protecting your country (and shipping lanes), Aus has one of the most vulnerable supply chains in the world, with few resources to protect them. The nearby US naval assets provide security and reliability to those vital trade lanes.

China has been moving towards establishing bases in the soloman islands & vanuatu - directly off the coast of Aus and hemming in Australia's northern ports  - which literally serve no purpose other than an offensive one against Australia - potentially threatening the trade route between the US/AUS.. (which would then only require cutting off the straight of malacca/south china sea to essentially cut off 95+% of Aus trade) - - while this doesn't seem likely at the moment, depending on the reaction of Aus in the case of a Taiwanese invasion, or some form of increased expansionism in the south china sea (i.e. if Aus withheld resource shipments to China)- China would potentially apply blockade esque tactics to pressure economically.


Quote:

Stable Genius said:

We could get 40 - 50 Collins Class subs for the same price, that are capable of defending our coastline.





Choosing to go with domestic upgraded subs is an option - but one way or another to bring it up to speed they would need to buy and incorporate some kind of foreign tech, --- The platform is dated, it would take a full redesign to match this project. The in between path of acquiring Virginia class subs makes sense, the platform is extremely well tested, and has proven its reliability & capability to be consistently upgraded with top of the line tech  ----

Australia would not be able to operate anywhere near 40-50 subs like you purport, and the down time would be even worse --- right now Australia only has 1 sub base - in Perth , there's no way they could all operate from there. Also mind you - they only have 3 ready at a time as it is... With the combination of the virginia class, extension of collins lifespan, the new sub model - and opening of a new sub base on the east coast, Aus will likely be able to double its readiness #s. & What lol, you mention 'US missiles' like its a new negative, they're already utilizing US weaponry & fire control systems on the old model.

The deal also isn't just for subs, it includes future technologies such as ' cooperation on advanced cyber mechanisms, artificial intelligence and autonomy, quantum technologies, undersea capabilities, hypersonic and counter-hypersonic, electronic warfare, innovation and information sharing' - - Australia isn't by any means technologically incompetent - however it lacks the breadth of research of the US/UK combined - there is only so much capacity in the country, so the country has to be rather discerning as to what it researches domestically .... tech sharing is absolutely vital to keeping aus up to date.

There are some major benefits to the increased range and loitering ability - one of the most major vulnerabilities that Australia has, is its reliance on shipping, of which a huge % passes through a few small choke points around Indonesia and the South China Sea --- right now Aus doesn't have much ability to actually protect or exert any influence over these routes... diesel subs lack the range, need to refuel - and need to surface... which are all major vulnerabilities operating that far from home.

... for better or worse - Australia lacks the military research and inventions to outfit their own military.... I don't doubt that they could make it happen with time, but so far it's been overall cheaper to just buy from the US...

Consider programs like the F35 that the US is providing to AUS... (and the extremely outdated F-111s it replaced) the development and research that went into that project was extremely expensive and the culmination of technology only possessed by a single country on the planet... There is no way aus would've been able to fund or easily develop that sort of thing for themselves, and they receive the product and benefit from the associated technologies, without the associated headaches and investment...




Good post  :thumbup:
However you and I are coming from 2 completely different positions. Basically this idea that China is able to invade Australia is almost as ridiculous as them invading the U.S.
As Keating pointed out, how are they going to invade without their ships being taken on the way in?
They're our largest trading partner, I'd rather we invested in diplomacy instead of investing in U.S. weapons. Look how that approach has worked so far for you guys :shrug: Warmongering all over the globe and for what?? The U.S. goes home
with it's tail between it's legs, after ruining other nations, time after time.
It's nuts.




I don't think that the purpose is to challenge China in an offensive manner - but to have the capability to have an effective deterrent against economic coercion...  Whether or not any hostile intent is perceived - I think it's pragmatic to have the ability to contest potential disruptions of AUS' fragile trading choke points - which are not directly on the coastline - like mentioned earlier, basically 2 points in the strait of malaccas and the south china sea carry the vast majority of all Australia's vital goods.

What I think is true, is that none of us really know what China's end game really looks like - whether they intend to play by economic means - whether those economic means are poison pills for a lot of the countries that buy on, whether or not overtime we will see them begin to exert military force when the balance begins to potentially favor their odds over that of the US? Who knows.

But it doesn't hurt to be a -little- prepared for if things do go to shit. The worst feeling in those times would be to be a nearly defenseless nation in a world where the rules of war are going out the window and all the sudden your resources look like easy picking for someone.... I think it's safe to say Asia got a very good taste of that from Japan ala WW2...


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Offlinemycot
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28330485 - 05/22/23 08:33 PM (8 months, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
I don't agree with this either. Are you sure you haven't swallowed too many anti-China pills? :flowstone:





For a minute I misread this as china-pills and thought you were referring to the physical psychoactive drugs coming from china. :lol:

China used to be a number 1 supplier and in many ways this is sadly no longer the case. :mad:


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: twighead] * 2
    #28330607 - 05/22/23 11:31 PM (8 months, 1 day ago)

What the heck does a sub have to do with deterring economic sanctions from China when a strong and diversified economy would minimise the impact of economic sanctions and leave us better off in the long run?

If we have fragile trade routes, maybe we should strengthen our economy rather than spending the biggest piece of our economic pie on underwater danger dildos.

Imo, preparation is strong investment in economic diversity!

Not another military slushfund to strengthen our reliance on the US.

The US can't even have their Pentagon pass an audit, 5 times in a row they've failed! With hundreds of billions of unnacounted for tax payer funds.


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Offlinemycot
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28330637 - 05/23/23 12:29 AM (8 months, 1 day ago)

We have to stop importing loads of people into Australia without letup.
It's destroying Australia and Australians in every way and yet is almost never discussed.
There should be an immediate and near total moratorium on immigration until such time that the present population of Australians have housing of a genuinely affordable nature rather than creating more homelessness and hardship.
There are economic, ethical and environmental implications associated with all this.

On a different matter. Last thing we need are nuc-subs and should rather promote dialog and general de-escalation. More swords into plowshares.
Australians (and French) hoodwinked about the subs just like another hoodwinking occurred with the leasing of Darwin Harbour (to china).


Edited by mycot (05/23/23 12:50 AM)


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: mycot]
    #28330650 - 05/23/23 12:52 AM (8 months, 1 day ago)

Apparently,
Quote:

Skilled migrants in high demand, but roadblocks may stymie efforts to retain talent in Australia

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-16/australia-skilled-migrant-cap-indian-racism-jobs-family-reunion/101726700




Affordable housing is a serious issue, and greedflation by corporations doesn't help.

Skilled migrants are important for keeping our societal systems and economy afloat and growing, and I don't think that saying we just need to stop people coming in is a statement that fairly addresses these nuances.


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Offlinemycot
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #28330681 - 05/23/23 01:41 AM (8 months, 1 day ago)

I didn't get much from that other than that cheap labor is in high demand by certain individuals.
We can and should be creating our own skilled workers as should every other country rather competing for people.
And yes, affordable housing is a (very) serious issue and this has been repeated ad infintum for decades by politicians (blah blah blah) and yet there is no serious political will in truly addressing this worsening problem.
Perhaps the majority of indigenous persons receive gov welfare, as do a large number of non-indigenous Australians. Are all these to become homeless ?


Edited by mycot (05/23/23 04:19 AM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #28331499 - 05/23/23 02:58 PM (8 months, 1 day ago)



--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28331526 - 05/23/23 03:16 PM (8 months, 1 day ago)

Lol, this is like those Canadian truckers complaining about their first amendment rights.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Kryptos]
    #28344771 - 06/02/23 06:08 PM (7 months, 22 days ago)

Please, please follow through with this threat, get the fuck out of Australia, take Angus Campbell with you, and never come back.

Quote:

Australia warned, Afghan war crimes allegations could hurt US cooperation

The US warned Australia it could trigger a special law after revelations of war crimes allegations against its troops.

KEY POINTS:
The US warned Australia it could apply the Leahy Laws over alleged war crimes in Afghanistan.
The laws prevent US troops from assisting military units who have violated human rights.:flowstone:

The Brereton Report uncovered evidence of 39 murders committed by Australian troops in Afghanistan.

Australia was warned the US could restrict engagement with Australian forces over credible allegations they committed war crimes in Afghanistan.

But Senate estimates has revealed Defence chief Angus Campbell did not pass on the warning, which he received from the US embassy in Canberra, to either the former or current minister.





https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/australia-warned-afghan-war-crimes-allegations-could-hurt-us-cooperation/rj19ewglz?dlb=%5b2023/06/01%5d%20del_newsam_bau_02&did=DM25128&cid=sbsnews:edm:acnewsam:relation:news:na:na


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28344809 - 06/02/23 06:45 PM (7 months, 22 days ago)

RT deservedly rubbing it in over the media defamation trial brought on by Ben Roberts-Smith.

https://www.rt.com/news/577350-australia-war-canberra-solider/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Email

They also picked up on the hypocrisy of the U.S. threat regarding war crimes in the earlier post.

Couple of things.
* Ben Roberts-Smith hasn't been criminally charged/convicted of any murder... just yet.
* Media tycoon Kerry Stokes picked up the legal tab for Roberts-Smith's court action. Bad luck Kerry.
* Stokes also gave Roberts-Smith a bullshit appointment of general manager of Seven Queensland.

Personally I hope he pisses off out of Queensland back to Western Australia, however I think that's unlikely as all the former soldiers he smeared will be lining up to flog the shit out of him, just guessing.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jun/01/ben-roberts-smith-defamation-loss-bad-news-for-seven-boss-as-nine-marks-day-of-justice

Quote:

The reporters who wrote the articles published in the Sydney Morning Herald, the Age and the Canberra Times stood triumphant on the steps of the court but chose to focus not on their hard-won victory, but rather Roberts-Smith’s victims.

Their allegations that he engaged in war crimes – including murdering civilians and ordering subordinate soldiers under his command to execute civilians in so-called “blooding” incidents – had been found to be true on the balance of probabilities.

McKenzie said it was the “toughest fight of our journalistic careers”.

He said it was a “day of justice” and called for Australia to be proud of the brave soldiers who spoke to him and Masters about the crimes committed in Afghanistan.

“It’s a day of justice for those brave men of the SAS who stood up and told the truth about who Ben Roberts-Smith is: a war criminal, a bully and a liar,” McKenzie said.

With Roberts-Smith absent from the court for his day of reckoning, McKenzie said he wanted the former soldier to reflect on the pain he had caused and the “children who no longer have a father”.

“I’d like Ben Roberts-Smith to reflect on the pain that he’s brought lots of men in the SAS who have stood up and told the truth about his conduct,” he said. “Some had letters sent to them, threatening letters. I’d like Ben Roberts-Smith to reflect on the people he murdered, the man who kicked off a cliff, the Afghan villagers. That’s what I think Ben Roberts-Smith should reflect on.”

McKenzie later told ABC TV that Stokes, by financing Roberts-Smith, had “waged a huge war against investigative journalism”.

Masters thanked Nine for publishing the stories, saying that editorial decision would “go down in the history of the news business as one of the great calls”.




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OfflineMilleresque
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #28345217 - 06/03/23 03:49 AM (7 months, 21 days ago)

“An ostentatious psychopath”

Ahhh, it always brings me pleasure when a nationally decorated “war hero”, a la Ben Roberts smith, has his egotistism levelled by the too rare occurrence and inherent discoveries of investigative journalism in this country.

It's psychopathy and egotism and nationalism in its most virile permutation, Spending untold millions whilst praying that his “special” clearances might force the truth to never be told, and perhaps he still doesn’t think that kicking a civilian off a cliff counts for nothing when you count on no one saying a word about it.

No one in the SAS would come to court and disavow one of their brothers, unless that operators actions repeatedly and definably fell into the criminal.

Anyway I love it when a nation has to be mirror-shown the truth of the character of war it never protested enough, in a conflict that solved nothing and ruined so much and only (and demonstrably) detracted from the rights and liberties of millions of Australians who would never set foot in Afghanistan.
Not to mention the Afghanistan people themselves


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Milleresque]
    #28346317 - 06/03/23 08:43 PM (7 months, 21 days ago)

:fistbump:


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28382032 - 07/02/23 03:52 AM (6 months, 23 days ago)

When low income earners again get dragged across the coals.

Quote:

So for many Australians (according to the ATO, more than 10 million people claimed the LMITO in 2019-20), their tax bill will increase by up to $1500 next year.
The flipside, of course, is that cutting the offset will save the government money – $4.1 billion, according to 2022-23 budget papers.
And while the LMITO is ending, the stage three tax cuts will come into effect in July 2024.
But they won't necessarily leave taxpayers affected by the end of the LMITO better off.

The real-world effect of this means Australians earning $45,000 don't get a tax cut, while those earning, say, $80,000 will get an $875 cut (still less than what LMITO provides), while someone taking home $180,000 will benefit to the tune of $6075.
The maximum saving under stage three cuts of $9075 will only be enjoyed by those earning more than $200,000.
The cost of stage three tax cuts is far greater than that of the LMITO.
The Parliamentary Budget Office estimated they will cost the budget $61.2 billion over the first three years, and $243.5 billion over the first nine.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/federal-budget-2023-low-middle-income-tax-offset-stage-three-tax-cuts-explained/b0735bc5-ce62-4c29-a923-354710093ed3




That ends up as a 60% cut to the tax return of many earning under 80k a year.

Save $4 billion by screwing over those with less income to give the high income earners $61 billion just to start.

:wow::pressure:


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OfflineStable Genius
Durka durka
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: sudly]
    #28420067 - 08/04/23 06:09 AM (5 months, 21 days ago)

Yeah well we got $380 gazillion we need to scrape together to buy 8 subs so quit complaining and get back to work.


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OfflineStable Genius
Durka durka
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28420095 - 08/04/23 06:44 AM (5 months, 21 days ago)

Sky News Australia has been having a field day over Hunter Biden for a month.(They've been getting laugh after laugh out of his father for years.)

Their homepage has had a feature story of him up for the last 3 weeks and it seems he has been verbally shat on by every person employed by Sky including the tea lady.

Sky doesn't have a huge following but the coverage is excellent and I hear people repeating the main points, which WILL lead people to looking closer into the Ukraine mess.

All roads lead to Ukraine these days, spudly won't be happy :laugh2:

https://www.youtube.com/@SkyNewsAustralia


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OfflineStable Genius
Durka durka
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28420129 - 08/04/23 07:16 AM (5 months, 21 days ago)

The Australian Citizens Party continue to put out excellent content. This week's show was great and last weeks was even better. Their channel now has 22k subscribers.

Disclaimer, if you're a knobheaded, Ukrainian flag waiving, U.S. government sycophant this content probably isn't for you.
Anyone else should enjoy them :cookiemonster:

Also, here's a copy of an email from one of the organisers letting people know where they can register their disgust or ideas regarding the Disinformation Bill being hatched by the ALP  :nonono:
Quote:

Just letting everyone know that it appears the Dept of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications and the Arts, has extended submissions on the new ACMA powers to combat misinformation and disinformation Bill, from 6th August to 20th August. More time to mobilise our forces.

https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/have-your-say/new-acma-powers-combat-misinformation-and-disinformation




Segment on the proposed Bill

Last week's show

This weeks show


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28420584 - 08/04/23 02:13 PM (5 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Yeah well we got $380 gazillion we need to scrape together to buy 8 subs so quit complaining and get back to work.




I thought you weren't a fan of Aussie spending on the subs.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #28420592 - 08/04/23 02:18 PM (5 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Sky News Australia has been having a field day over Hunter Biden for a month.(They've been getting laugh after laugh out of his father for years.)

Their homepage has had a feature story of him up for the last 3 weeks and it seems he has been verbally shat on by every person employed by Sky including the tea lady.

Sky doesn't have a huge following but the coverage is excellent and I hear people repeating the main points, which WILL lead people to looking closer into the Ukraine mess.

All roads lead to Ukraine these days, spudly won't be happy :laugh2:

https://www.youtube.com/@SkyNewsAustralia




There is no proverbial gun in this situation.



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