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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27983449 - 10/05/22 07:39 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

100% proof? No, just an argument based on evidence rather than conjecture. It was conjecture, not evidence, that brought you from 'International Renaissance Foundation funds Ukrainian NGO's pushing revolution in Ukraine' to 'George Soros sponsored a coup d'état in Ukraine'.

As for the second point, did you just take the study at face value, or did you investigate further? I won't pretend to be an expert in this field, but some reading has provided me with enough evidence to conclude the study isn't free of criticism. An evidence-based argument would address such criticism, rather than ignore it while trumpeting the conclusions as 'fact being suppressed by authorities'.

- https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/study-claiming-ivermectin-reduces-covid-19-mortality-by-92-has-important-methodological-problems/
- https://retractionwatch.com/2022/09/19/journal-says-ivermectin-study-met-standard-for-credible-science
- https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-ivermectin-covidmortality-idUSL1N30K205/


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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27983493 - 10/05/22 07:59 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Ivermectin does not work. Full stop.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #27983546 - 10/05/22 08:19 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

To say George Soros had no idea what he was funding is ridiculous.


As for your second point:
- https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/study-claiming-ivermectin-reduces-covid-19-mortality-by-92-has-important-methodological-problems/
Quote:

Misleading: The study by Kerr et al. contains several critical flaws. Notably, it analyzed data in such a way that led people who developed COVID-19 to be excluded from the group of regular ivermectin users, regardless of their actual ivermectin use. Therefore, COVID-19 patients are underrepresented in the group of regular ivermectin users, making this group appear to have a lower risk of COVID-19 death compared to irregular users or non-users.



I read the report, and it said it "excluded from analysis Positives of COVID-19 until 07.07.2020".  Given that the study began on 07.07.2020, and that it was about "Regular Use of Ivermectin as Prophylaxis for COVID-19" that approach TOTALLY makes sense, and I don't understand the problem.

- https://retractionwatch.com/2022/09/19/journal-says-ivermectin-study-met-standard-for-credible-science
I don't see the issue here either, other than other publishers retracted the article.  It also cites problems some of the researchers had with OTHER studies not relevant to this one.  Nothing debunks the information in the report.

- https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-ivermectin-covidmortality-idUSL1N30K205/
This article says they think people taking ivermectin may not have taken as much as they actually claimed.  If true, that means ivermectin was actually MORE effective than the study shows.

None of these are good criticisms.  :shrug:


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: koods] * 1
    #27983551 - 10/05/22 08:20 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Ivermectin does not work. Full stop.



Ooh, hard to argue with that strong of an argument.  I'll try using your methodology:

Ivermectin works.  Full stop and a half!  :flowstone:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27983578 - 10/05/22 08:28 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

It’s a scam. Ivermectin doesn’t work. There have been plenty of double blind randomized studies now that show no benefit whatsoever.

Why do some studies from developing countries show a benefit? Likely fraud but possibly the ivermectin is treating comorbid chronic parasitic infections in patients.


Regardless, the verdict has been in for months, ivermectin is a useless drug to treat covid. And that should be obvious since it is an anthelmintic.

Quote:

This article says they think people taking ivermectin may not have taken as much as they actually claimed.  If true, that means ivermectin was actually MORE effective than the study shows.



Worst medical take ever. How reliable is a study of the participants don’t even follow the protocol?


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (10/05/22 08:30 PM)

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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27983585 - 10/05/22 08:36 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

It's ridiculous to point out that conjecture is not an evidence-based argument?

Furthermore, the links I provided consist of a lot more than your summary suggests - but okay, if you're comfortable with the conclusion why not go on record here saying you believe ivermectin is 92% effective at stopping death from covid, and then we can move on to "China releases a Bio Weapon on us" and "Natural immunity would have lead to virus extinction".


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: koods] * 1
    #27983646 - 10/05/22 09:13 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
There have been plenty of double blind randomized studies now that show no benefit whatsoever.



Why don't you post one?  I'll seriously give it a look.

Quote:

koods said:
Why do some studies from developing countries show a benefit?



Because big pharma doesn't have as much to lose in developing countries.

Quote:

koods said:
Regardless, the verdict has been in for months, ivermectin is a useless drug to treat covid.



The study in question wasn't trying to treat Covid with ivermectin.  :facepalm:  It was looking at it as a prophylaxis.

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

This article says they think people taking ivermectin may not have taken as much as they actually claimed.  If true, that means ivermectin was actually MORE effective than the study shows.



Worst medical take ever. How reliable is a study of the participants don’t even follow the protocol?



It may not be super reliable, but again, if people who were supposed to take a certain amount weren't taking that much, and they still showed a significant improvement, that means ivermectin was even more effective than the study claims.  Similarly, if people who weren't supposed to take ivermectin were taking some, that means that control group was catching COVID less than they otherwise would have, and once again, ivermectin was even more effective than the study showed.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (10/05/22 09:39 PM)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27983680 - 10/05/22 09:38 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
It's ridiculous to point out that conjecture is not an evidence-based argument?



I think it's fair to say George Soros knew exactly what he was funding.  No, I can't guarantee it, but I'd certainly bet on it.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Furthermore, the links I provided consist of a lot more than your summary suggests



If I missed something important, please share it.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
if you're comfortable with the conclusion why not go on record here saying you believe ivermectin is 92% effective at stopping death from covid



Based on the evidence in that study, and the lack of counterevidence presented, I am comfortable saying that ivermectin is 92% effective at stopping death from Covid if used as a prophylaxis.  Counter-evidence could easily change my mind.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
we can move on to "China releases a Bio Weapon on us"



Here's a good summary.



If you don't like Saagar Enjeti or Krystal Ball, just read the Government staff report referenced therein.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
...and "Natural immunity would have lead to virus extinction".



Per your original link, he's talking about "immune escape", which is a real thing for COVID 19 discussed by the NIH here.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27983728 - 10/05/22 09:56 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Per your original link, he's talking about "immune escape", which is a real thing for COVID 19 discussed by the NIH here..




And when everybody gets the first variant, the next variant takes over. Haven’t you been paying attention for the past two years?


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: koods]
    #27983743 - 10/05/22 10:01 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Here’s a proper randomized double blind trial. While not statistically significant, the ivermectin group actually did worse.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2201662

Quote:

None of the three medications that were evaluated prevented the occurrence of hypoxemia, an emergency department visit, hospitalization, or death associated with Covid-19.




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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: koods]
    #27983792 - 10/05/22 10:25 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Here’s a proper randomized double blind trial. While not statistically significant, the ivermectin group actually did worse.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2201662

Quote:

None of the three medications that were evaluated prevented the occurrence of hypoxemia, an emergency department visit, hospitalization, or death associated with Covid-19.






The study in question was about stopping death from Covid when used as a prophylaxis, not as a treatment option after you catch COVID.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27983795 - 10/05/22 10:28 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

So you have to take ivermectin every week forever? Damn thats a cash cow. Imagine how much money the pharmaceutical companies would make. Probably why these studies are fraudulent


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27983805 - 10/05/22 10:36 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
It's ridiculous to point out that conjecture is not an evidence-based argument?



I think it's fair to say George Soros knew exactly what he was funding.  No, I can't guarantee it, but I'd certainly bet on it.




You're free to hold that opinion, but it's still based in conjecture rather than evidence.

I'm not really interested in trying change your opinions on these matters. Mostly was just interested in seeing exactly what you consider 'reasonable' and 'evidence-based'. I now have a better idea of this, and know that it includes things that I consider conjecture-based conspiracy theories - like a puppetmaster Soros or that covid is a Chinese bioweapon.


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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27983806 - 10/05/22 10:38 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Chinese bioweapon that they released on the world without having a vaccine for their own population which is still living through city wide lockdowns while the rest of the world has moved on


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NotSheekle said
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: koods]
    #27983844 - 10/05/22 11:10 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I don't think it was released intentionally.

Also, after reading more of Jefferson Earl's tweets, I'm not such a big fan, though I stand by what I said above, though I do support COVID vaccinations (I've had 4).


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (10/05/22 11:16 PM)

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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27983853 - 10/05/22 11:23 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
I'm not really interested in trying change your opinions on these matters. Mostly was just interested in seeing exactly what you consider 'reasonable' and 'evidence-based'. I now have a better idea of this, and know that it includes things that I consider conjecture-based conspiracy theories - like a puppetmaster Soros or that covid is a Chinese bioweapon.



I do think Soros knew the organizations he was funding in Ukraine supported a revolution there.  Why else would he fund an anti-Government news channel?

And I don't think the Chinese released Covid intentionally, but it may well have come from one of their biolabs.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27983871 - 10/05/22 11:51 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Ahh refreshing I clicked on this thread to find some pages of Emmanuel Goldstein hate! Err I mean George Soros!



Actually... it was Rupert Murdoch, you were close!

Ah wait no that was who was supporting the Russian puppet before


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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27983954 - 10/06/22 02:07 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

This has devolved into murica lol.

Quote:

stick bleach up my ass fa**ot* - Trump




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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27983964 - 10/06/22 02:24 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Ok so you've come to understand she didn't advise Kerr, through Martin Charteris, to sack Whitlam, cool :thumbup: Kerr even states he purposely didn't advise the Queen of his ultimate decision, so as to distance her from the situation.

The letters that were released were actually Kerr's copies, not The Queens, held by the National Archives in Canberra, which refused to release them because they were deemed as private documents.
Kerr resigned in 1977. Respectfully, maybe you could do some snooping around and tell us both why they chose 50 years as an appropriate time frame to withhold them as I don't know why.

What I do understand is that the High Court eventually ruled they belonged to The Commonwealth, but it appears the Queen and Kerr were both stuck following protocol.

Here's a different angle to look at this from; if she chose to release private documents(don't forget they were also Kerr's) then that action would have been a purposeful foray into our democracy. I think she very wisely chose the correct course of action :shrug:

As for your question about me being fine with someone keeping their mouth shut with knowledge of a murder, I'm going to choose to ignore that one.

I'd be interested to see what you can find about the National Archives though. Cheers :thumbup:




It isn't clear to me yet whether she advised him or not but it certainly isn't out of the question. At the very least it seems she knew what he was doing and went out of her way to place an embargo on the situation.

Quote:

During his term as governor-general, Kerr communicated regularly with Buckingham Palace through the Private Secretary to the Queen. In August 1978, David Smith, Official Secretary to the Governor-General, deposited this correspondence into the custody of the National Archives of Australia.

Released to the public in 2020, the series of records consists of 212 letters in six files.

Most of the letters were exchanged between Kerr and Sir Martin Charteris, the Queen’s Private Secretary. David Smith occasionally sent letters, as did the Queen, her Deputy Private Secretary Sir Philip Moore and her Assistant Private Secretary Sir William Heseltine.

https://www.naa.gov.au/explore-collection/kerr-palace-letters





Quote:

10.06.2020
Introduction

On 29 May, the High Court handed down its decision in Hocking v Director-General of the National Archives of Australia [2020] HCA 19. In an emphatic  6:1 decision, the Court held that correspondence known as the ‘Palace Letters’ – letters between the Governor-General Sir John Kerr and the Queen in the lead up to the dismissal of Prime Minister Gough Whitlam in 1975 – are “Commonwealth records”, not “personal records” as asserted by the National Archives, and thus potentially subject to release under the Archives Act 1983 (Cth) (‘Archives Act’). The High Court ordered that the Director-General of the National Archives reconsider historian Professor Jenny Hocking’s request for access to the Palace Letters.

The Palace Letters are copies of 211 pieces of correspondence between Sir John Kerr and the Queen’s private secretary, Sir Martin Charteris, exchanged between August 1974 and December 1977. The letters were deposited with the National Archives by Sir John Kerr’s official secretary, Mr David Smith, in 1978 as part of Kerr’s personal collection, with instructions that they not be made available for 60 years (i.e. until 2037), which was when the Queen’s copies of the letters would be made available. In 1991, the access period was brought forward to 2027 on the Queen’s instruction, with the condition that release of the letters to the public be subject to potential veto by the Queen’s private secretary or the Governor-General’s official secretary (‘royal veto’).

Since then, Buckingham Palace has indicated that all letters between the Queen, her private secretary and her Governors-General should not be made available until 5 years after her death, and then still be subject to royal veto. The Queen’s unilateral power to embargo the letters from release raises concerns about what the Palace’s role in the dismissal was, the impact of a foreign institution on access to information held by Australian institutions, and why the actions of Australia’s Head of State are being hidden from scrutiny.

Accountability in our political system can only be achieved if the decisions made by the holders of the highest offices in our democracy are subject to transparency and public scrutiny.

https://www.auspublaw.org/blog/2020/06/palace-letters-are-commonwealth-records-a-victory-for-democratic-transparency





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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27983984 - 10/06/22 03:30 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Jefferson Earl, a political candidate for the Federal 2022 election in Australia sends a message to Vladimir Putin from Melbourne:

I don't know anything about him other than this video, but he's fed up with Western disinformation to Australia and is calling for truth.  Have you heard of him?




Yeah I vaguely remember one of Clive Palmers candidates being endorsed then quickly disendorsed before the Federal election. Apparently this is the guy.

Like you Falcon I'm not into religion and find it bizzare when mostly normal sounding people start talking about Jesus, Allah etc... I try and ignore it.

However he makes good points on Ukraine and I share his concern that Australia is being led unwittingly towards war, in particular with China. Also Pine Gap and the North West Cape spy bases make us a target.

Even if the others posting in this thread aren't on Russia's side, what this guy is saying about being lied to is being understood by more and more people.

He's not the only minor party politician saying these type of things and I wonder just how many in the major parties share this view as well.

You posted a Corey Bernadi video a few months back, saying very calmly and clearly the exact same things about war and he was a major party politician up until a couple of years ago. For sure I would never have voted for either of these guys but it doesn't detract from the very sound argument they put across. If it makes sense it makes sense.

The video below is the Party I voted for in the Senate. This is the sort of political conversation I want to listen to, not the rubbish we get from the major parties. If you have the time have a listen from the 27.20 mark


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