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Stable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: sudly]
#27736245 - 04/15/22 05:00 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: They were some US suggestions, but which ones don't apply?
Only a couple that seemed obviously U.S.
Quote:
Let all voters participate in open primaries.
Let voters rank their top candidates, avoid “spoilers.”
Automatic voter registration.
Crack down on super PACs
Other than that I think they're mostly valid points that are worthy of serious debate that won't likely get any attention from our dumbed down media.
For instance, as much as I don't like Scott Morrison for his climate change denial we have to suffer endless stupid commentary on whether or not people trust him. It's debate we don't need , that goes nowhere and puts people off listening when there are way more important issues.
And Albanese's gaff on the unemployment figures, like yes he should've been able to name them but what does it really prove? I'm in my 50's and the amount of stuff I can't remember is frightening some days
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Stable Genius
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I just got an email from George Christensen saying he's joining One Nation.
It's funny, I thought George gave me the boot after I had an email discussion with him, but he must've forgot to delete me
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Painkiller
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On the topic of potics in Australia, I have the feeling that Australians are well and truly over being lied to by politicians and if the next Prime Minister were to tell just one lie there would be a massive revolt.
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Painkiller]
#27745455 - 04/21/22 03:50 PM (2 years, 28 days ago) |
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What's everyone's thoughts on China's involvement in The Solomon Islands?
Is this the new 'Cuba on our doorstep' moment or just more ignorant short sighted diplomacy from our government?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stable Genius
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Quote:
It’s as if there is no comprehension whatsoever as to why the Solomon Islands may not consent to be under the hegemony of Australia and the United States, and why it is obviously going to prefer a strategy of “hedging” to maximize political space and opportunity for itself, rather than being forced to exclusively pick one side. This is demonstrative of the elitist mindset which dominates these countries. It is therefore lost on Australia why the Solomon Islands, a non-white former British protectorate (the British Queen is, to this day, also the Queen of the Solomon Islands, for that matter), might not want to be completely dominated by Canberra, and by extension, the US. This is why scores and scores of US and Australian officials visiting the island and mounting diplomatic pressure haven’t been able to change the mind of the Islands’ government.

I wish more Australians would look at things from a different perspective and take other countries legitimacy into account.
Have a listen to this interview though from Foreign Affairs Minister Marise Payne, it's surprisingly level headed, which is something I wouldn't normally say about her.
The hysteria around this story is actually being driven from journalists and in this case, Leigh Sales from the ABC.
It seems even the traditionally left leaning ABC has caught this weird type of Nationalism sweeping the world that's normally reserved for the right. Marice Payne is someone I'd class as fairly conservative.
https://www.abc.net.au/7.30/china-solomon-islands-deal-deeply-disappointing:/13848380
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sudly
Quasar Praiser

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I don't think Abc rn radio does very good pushback.. there's one lady that kinds does, but only 2 or 3 times before the issue is entirely deflected.
I like abc but they're not a left pariah imo.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: sudly] 1
#27753067 - 04/27/22 08:18 AM (2 years, 22 days ago) |
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I like the ABC as well.
The problem I see at the moment is the tactless and belligerent political approach when it comes to how we discuss our relationship with China, from both the LNP as well as Labor as well as the many idiots in the media. It's dangerous.
I'm so disgusted by the Labor Party's comments on the Solomon Island's deal with China that I doubt I'll even vote for them this time and instead vote Green in both the House of Reps and the Senate.
If you're interested in listening to some excellent commentary have a listen to ex diplomat John Lander.

This is the type of commentary and discussion we need!
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Very good video, thanks! 
These types of analyses are what the mainstream news lacks.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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sudly
Quasar Praiser

Registered: 01/05/15
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Quote:
Stable Genius said: I like the ABC as well.
The problem I see at the moment is the tactless and belligerent political approach when it comes to how we discuss our relationship with China, from both the LNP as well as Labor as well as the many idiots in the media. It's dangerous.
I'm so disgusted by the Labor Party's comments on the Solomon Island's deal with China that I doubt I'll even vote for them this time and instead vote Green in both the House of Reps and the Senate.
If you're interested in listening to some excellent commentary have a listen to ex diplomat John Lander.

This is the type of commentary and discussion we need!
I don't doubt collateral damage happens in wars through malicious acts or otherwise.
Quite often in war both sides have forces within the same vicinity, and even being a few kilometres apart, artillery can be used. To say it can not be Russian artillery because there were Russians in the region does not make sense.
And at 5:40 he says they've lied about Ukraine not using cluster munitions when there is a guardian article I've linked that suggests both sides may have used them.
The cherry on top is at 4:20-4:30 when he says, "most of the world has signed a treaty banning cluster munitions but not ukraine".
Because he purposely leaves out that Russia and the US have not signed onto the cluster munitions ban either.
As I see it, the host in the video you linked provided conjecture on there being a sole side responsible for the use of cluster munitions. Conjecture that Russians cannot have used artillery because they were 'in the region'. A mischaracterisation of positions held by the guardian. And a brazen omission of information in regard to which nations signed on to the ban of cluster munitions.
This is not what I consider good journalistic integrity and unfortunately this is a kind of practice legacy media tends to take part in too.
From neutrality biases, to omissions of information to straight up opinion pieces and conjecture. I don't think this meets my standard of accountability.
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Evidence collected by the New York-based Human Rights Watch suggests both government forces and pro-Russian separatists have used cluster munitions in eastern Ukraine.
A spokesman for the Kiev government’s military operation against the uprising in the east denied the accusations. The rebels were not available to comment.
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Human Rights Watch (HRW) said in a statement it had carried out a week-long investigation in eastern Ukraine, where more than 3,700 people have been killed in fighting since April, and documented widespread use of cluster munitions.
It said it could not conclusively determine responsibility for many of the attacks but “the evidence points to Ukrainian government forces’ responsibility for several cluster munition attacks” this month on Donetsk, the rebels’ main stronghold.
Human Rights Watch said: “While not conclusive, circumstances indicate that anti-government forces might also have been responsible for the use of cluster munitions.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/21/cluster-bombs-ukraine-human-rights-watch
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In the rush of war, no one bothers to prove themselves
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: sudly] 1
#27754495 - 04/28/22 04:17 AM (2 years, 21 days ago) |
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Shit shit shit! I posted the wrong video! That's from the Ukraine thread. Sorry about that 
I know this is long but it's worth the hour investment of your time, put it on while you're having dinner or something. This is the one from ex diplomat John Lander... damn it.
The one below from Richard Medhurst highlights the situation very well.
I'm completely serious when I say we are living very dangerously at this point in time... we need another Gough Whitlam! we have no decent leadership in this country we are being used by the U.S. government and the insane bit is we seem oblivious to the fact it's happening!
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: sudly] 1
#27756169 - 04/29/22 06:24 AM (2 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: I don't doubt collateral damage happens in wars through malicious acts or otherwise.
Quite often in war both sides have forces within the same vicinity, and even being a few kilometres apart, artillery can be used. To say it can not be Russian artillery because there were Russians in the region does not make sense.
And at 5:40 he says they've lied about Ukraine not using cluster munitions when there is a guardian article I've linked that suggests both sides may have used them.
The cherry on top is at 4:20-4:30 when he says, "most of the world has signed a treaty banning cluster munitions but not ukraine".
Because he purposely leaves out that Russia and the US have not signed onto the cluster munitions ban either.
As I see it, the host in the video you linked provided conjecture on there being a sole side responsible for the use of cluster munitions. Conjecture that Russians cannot have used artillery because they were 'in the region'. A mischaracterisation of positions held by the guardian. And a brazen omission of information in regard to which nations signed on to the ban of cluster munitions.
This is not what I consider good journalistic integrity and unfortunately this is a kind of practice legacy media tends to take part in too.
From neutrality biases, to omissions of information to straight up opinion pieces and conjecture. I don't think this meets my standard of accountability.
Quote:
Evidence collected by the New York-based Human Rights Watch suggests both government forces and pro-Russian separatists have used cluster munitions in eastern Ukraine.
A spokesman for the Kiev government’s military operation against the uprising in the east denied the accusations. The rebels were not available to comment.
Quote:
Human Rights Watch (HRW) said in a statement it had carried out a week-long investigation in eastern Ukraine, where more than 3,700 people have been killed in fighting since April, and documented widespread use of cluster munitions.
It said it could not conclusively determine responsibility for many of the attacks but “the evidence points to Ukrainian government forces’ responsibility for several cluster munition attacks” this month on Donetsk, the rebels’ main stronghold.
Human Rights Watch said: “While not conclusive, circumstances indicate that anti-government forces might also have been responsible for the use of cluster munitions.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/21/cluster-bombs-ukraine-human-rights-watch
Quote:
In the rush of war, no one bothers to prove themselves
I wasn't intending to post that video in here but seeing as you've responded I'll say you raise reasonable criticisms of the article. We can discuss it in this thread if you want or in the Ukraine thread as I posted the same video... doh!
Also, your link didn't work. Was this the page you intended to link? From April 25th.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/24/dozens-bucha-civilians-killed-flechettes-metal-darts-russian-artillery
The Guardian quoted parts of The Washington Post's article from April 18th.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/18/flechette-projectile-ukraine-russia/
A couple of things stand out to me if we are looking at 'journalistic integrity' I'll highlight what I see is conjecture;
Quote:
Neil Gibson, a munitions expert at the U.K.-based Fenix Insights group. The flechette recovered from Chmut’s yard probably came from a 122 mm 3Sh1 artillery round, he said, which is among a few Russian munitions that carry the projectiles.
In other words he's guessing.
Quote:
Gibson has reviewed photos of those artillery rounds left behind by Russian troops but has not seen their documented use in Ukraine, he said. Maj. Volodymyr Fito, a spokesperson for Ukrainian land forces command, said the Ukrainian military does not use shells with fléchettes.
If their use is undocumented then it's more guesswork.
As for Volodymyr Fito's statement well that's an outright lie according to reports from earlier in the conflict yet The Washington Post reports it without digging any deeper, instead happy to take the Ukrainian propaganda on face value.
The rest of the Washington Post article is crap. Short stories from a woman finding some in her backyard and 'experts' relating the use of flechette rounds in World War 1 and their use by the U.S. in Vietnam and Israel using them on civilians in Gaza, but nothing actually relating to any evidence of their use by Russia. All of this blended together to make it sound newsworthy... but it ain't.
The Guardian also quotes themselves in another article from April 22nd saying Quote:
The Guardian found a Russian cluster rocket used to prop cluster munitions near a farm village in Hostomel and allegedly launched by a BM-30 Smerch.
but who did they ask for verification?... Bellingcat !
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Bellingcat, a nonprofit online journalism collective dedicated to war crime investigations, which has reviewed some of the pictures collected by the Guardian, confirmed the presence of tail fins of RBK-500 cluster bombs with PTAB-1M submunitions and cluster rocket, launched by BM-30 Smerch
And further down the page
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Tail fins of an RBK-500 cluster bomb, post deployment, unknown submunition type found in Borodyanka
And further
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According to the New York Times, Ukrainian troops used a cluster munition rocket in early March in Husarivka, a village in the east of the country that they were trying to retake.

Here's one last thing to consider. Ukraine has been desperately trying to drag NATO/The West into this conflict with bogus claims of chemical weapons threats, nuclear threats, staging civilian deaths in Bucha as murders by Russia etc etc.... what makes you think this is any different?
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sudly
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I do think calls for US to create a no fly zone was absolutely bonkers and a request for WW3.
As for the cluster munitions, there is fog of war, neither side has signed a ban on cluster munitions, and there's seems reason to think both could use them.
I don't think the fog of war can be cleared here.
I might watch the other video when time allows.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: sudly]
#27757227 - 04/30/22 05:51 AM (2 years, 19 days ago) |
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Cool it's all commentary.
I looked further into the Australian Citizens Party and was shocked to be honest.
Wiki painted them as a right wing party yet they have spoken out against Guantanamo Bay, Pine Gap, the Pacific Solution, are totally against this war with China idea, they encourage immigration plus a heap of others. There's only a couple of their policies like their climate change denial I absolutely don't agree with.
Crazy times indeed.
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sudly
Quasar Praiser

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I think this is an interesting take on Ukraine from Cenk Uygur.
This aside I'll be looking at those links later on, I'm on a road trip atm and got photos of a Spotted Bowerbird!! Very exciting 
Quote:
I'm conflicted on it because I know that if my country was attacked, and civilians were killed, family members are killed, I'd see red and I wouldn't give a damn who we're bombing in Russia.
Oh have you been bomed? I should care? When im bombed you shouldn't care? But when you're bombed I should care? No deal, no deal at all.
That's how I would feel emotionally, but it's true that Ukrainians have to be very careful about hitting military targets and not civilian targets, because hitting Russian civilians doesn't make you any better, and that's a war crime and they shouldn't do it and all it's going to do is unfortunately unleash propaganda that might say kill all the Ukranians, and that's not going to help anybody.
We keep assuming that when Putin is considering and saying they have nukes, he's hinted at it several times, his paid propagandist on TV which he clearly speaks to, have now threatened it multiple times. We keep assuming oh they're not going to do that, we also thought they wouldn't really invade Ukraine, so I think we're underestimating the threat of nuclear holocaust, and that is where we are.
- Cenk Uygur
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: sudly] 1
#27758862 - 05/01/22 03:10 PM (2 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: I think this is an interesting take on Ukraine from Cenk Uygur.
This aside I'll be looking at those links later on, I'm on a road trip atm and got photos of a Spotted Bowerbird!! Very exciting 
Quote:
I'm conflicted on it because I know that if my country was attacked, and civilians were killed, family members are killed, I'd see red and I wouldn't give a damn who we're bombing in Russia.
There's one problem with what he's saying though. He has completely missed the first 8 years where The Ukraine government were the ones dropping the bombs on their own civilians 
Nice work getting a photo of the bowerbird, I believe they aren't easy to spot, is that correct?
I'm in Hervey Bay, between the Botanic Gardens and the beach, we are spoilt for birdlife... and fruit bats there's a massive colony about 200mtrs from my house, and whoa they stink! https://gretavanderrol.net/2020/02/08/the-ospreys-at-hervey-bay/ https://fraser-tours.com/article/bats-fraser-island
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sudly
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China is financing infrastructure projects around the world in what could be called new age colonialism, where instead of brute forcing their way around the world, China is essentially gifting other countries with infrastructure for access, loyalty and trade.
Australia hasn't batted an eyelid on climate change and for many island nations it is literally their biggest threat to national security. I wouldn't be surprised to hear they cut some sort of deal on long term flood prevention or something of the sort.
How would we react if NZ tried to turn Tasmania into a republic? Bar whatever propaganda lead to it.
When the airport is attacked, 3 helicopters and a plane have already been shot down, dozens of soldiers killed, and calls to withdraw are ignored.
Ukraine tried to defend itself, it did mess up, it did kill civilians.
When you're given a limited hand, I think it's reasonable to look more thoroughly in to why you are being given a limited hand, if it is merrited, and if it could have been avoided, or an alternative could have been found in the first place.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: sudly]
#27759630 - 05/02/22 07:22 AM (2 years, 17 days ago) |
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Hmmm I've got no reason so far to think that President Sogavare has taken any bribes but corruption and misuse of the public's money are a problem for many developing nations.
Remember the 40 Maserati's PNG bought for the APEC summit? It turns out more than 300 luxury cars loaned to delegates and officials are unaccounted for !
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/24/papua-new-guinea-has-sold-just-two-of-the-43-luxury-cars-imported-for-apec
China is very good at exercising soft power and of course they want something in return but is it really sinister? I don't think so.
The U.S. government have military bases dotted throughout the entire world, I think it's obnoxious that they(and the Aus government) are threatening The Solomon Islands, especially when the agreement doesn't even say anything about any military bases being built!
And ffs they are 2000km away from us.
Also remember when the N.T. government leased the Port of Darwin to the Chinese company Landbridge? talk about hypocrisy.
In regards N.Z. turning Tassie into a Republic(that made me laugh too) if Canberra had been bombing the Taswegians for 8 years and they voted to declare themselves independent would anyone really blame them? 
I wonder if we could get New Zealand to invade Western Australia? just kidding.... sort of
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Milleresque
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Ahhh, a political thread for those sharing the same sunny, venomous, dangerous, beautiful piece of earth I do! Hooray!
But Christ where does one even begin? With the near completely broken “choice” presented to us by the looming election? That’ll do. For me, knowing better, it seems purely a personality choice as labour is liberal lite and, should they be elected, we will still be the lap dogs of that lone, corrupt, war-fed, hypocritical empirical power. Personally I want scomo removed for being as transparent as water and I want Dutton to crawl back into the fell gollum cave from which he came….he is by far the most poisonous person I have ever witnessed in Australian politics (yes he’s worse than miss Hanson) and he’s legitimately dangerous besides).
I find myself as a man without faith in the major parties, and I do not support the greens on every issue. Our national broadcaster is becoming a tepid, supine collection of woke parrots (look at the morning show now for goodness sake. I want to cut my ears off as I came here to get away from channel 7 and 9) whose bias, both political and geopolitical, is naked to anyone with perception.
I’ll probably vote labour, merely because the other band of criminals are so distasteful and deaf and dumb and blind that I’d like some other band of the same to try it out.
“The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those not in possession of it”
-------------------- “Develop an interest in life as you see it; in people, things, literature, music - the world is so rich, simply throbbing with rich treasures, beautiful souls and interesting people. Forget yourself.“ Henry Miller
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Milleresque] 1
#27762350 - 05/04/22 04:00 AM (2 years, 15 days ago) |
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Hehehe good post
We have such shit leadership in this country and the media aren't helping either. It's like a popularity contest half the time and the serious debate gets sidelined often.
I've been checking out The Australian Citizens Party recently and got in contact with them... someone rang me back and we had a chat!
I gave them some cash and was sent some reading material and signed up for their newsletter. One of the links they forwarded was one of Richard Medhurst's interviews with Scott Ritter!, which I was already familiar with.
They have some decent ideas
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