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Oz_Salvia
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: sudly]
#27592463 - 12/23/21 10:36 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:

Thanks on that post.
Shows the massive spend on old people who should have made provision to their future given they had decades to do so. Instead it's a terrible leaning on the young who have already been heavily burdened in COVID debt, ironically to save the old by locking up the country. That's the tragedy of our age. Yep, long after they have popped their clogs the young will be carrying the load. I see the end of the aged pension and their concessions.
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Psilynut2
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Oz_Salvia] 1
#27592492 - 12/23/21 11:25 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's so stupid , how fucking selfish and entitled do you have to be to demonize the people who built the very society you take for granted ?
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Oz_Salvia]
#27592493 - 12/23/21 11:30 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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His posts are fucking revolting.
I doubt he’s ever seen adversity but wait for it, we’ll hear aaaaallll about how hard he’s had to work to get where he is single handed.
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Oz_Salvia
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Enjoy Stable Genius, and festive cheer. 
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sudly
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Oz_Salvia]
#27592539 - 12/24/21 01:05 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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It sounds like a portion of retirees benefiting from franked dividends do have a low income, but that doesn't take into account wealth or superannuation as far as I understand.
Quote:
In a speech to the Alliance for a Fairer Retirement System, Assistant Treasurer Stuart Robert said the plan would hit some of the lowest paid Australians.
"How is that fair on the lowest paid, those with low fixed incomes, those who are retired?" he said.
"It is not fair.
"Any changes will overwhelmingly hit low and middle-income earners, with 84 per cent of the individuals impacted on taxable incomes of less than $37,000 …"
Will the changes mostly hit low and middle-income earners, with 84 per cent on taxable incomes of less than $37,000? RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.
Mr Robert's claim is misleading.
He suggests Australia's least well off will bear the brunt of the pain.
To make his case, Mr Robert relies on the taxable income of people claiming excess franking credits as a cash refund. This is problematic for a number of reasons.
First, taxable income does not include the largest source of income for many retirees: superannuation.
Superannuation income (for fund balances of up to $1.6 million) is generally not subject to tax in the retirement phase, and is therefore excluded from taxable income.
Second, in a related sense, taxable income often has little to do with wealth.
For example, the Grattan Institute has estimated that, when superannuation withdrawals are pared out of income data for retirees, almost half of the "wealthiest" 10 per cent of people over 65 report incomes of less than the $18,200 tax-free threshold.
Third, Labor's policy applies to both individuals and superannuation funds. By focusing on individuals, Mr Robert is ignoring the impact that would flow through to members of superannuation funds, particularly self-managed superannuation funds, which account for almost half the refunds claimed.
Figures from the Parliamentary Budget Office show that almost a quarter of all refunds claimed in 2014-15 went to 33,761 self-managed superannuation funds with balances of over $2.4 million.
This is not to say the policy will have no impact on some individuals with modest incomes and wealth.
What is clear, however, is using the taxable income of individuals tells us little about the overall financial position of those affected, or about the fairness or otherwise of Labor's policy.
Ms Wood, from the Grattan Institute, said most of the people affected were self-funded retirees.
"And the reason they are affected is because they get refunds and the reason they get refunds is because they have low taxable incomes," Ms Wood said.
"The reason they have low taxable incomes is because the income generated by self-managed super funds up to balances of $1.6 million is tax free. So their taxable income could be low but their actual income is often reasonably healthy, but they are still getting access to imputation credits.
"Taxable income is a very poor estimate of means when you are talking about people in retirement."
Kathrin Bain, from the School of Taxation and Business Law at UNSW Sydney, said as a general rule most of those affected by Labor's policy had marginal tax rates less than the company tax rate.
"To be affected by this policy you have to have a marginal tax rate that is lower than the company tax rate," Ms Bain said.
"If you are just looking at individuals, of course it is going to affect people with lower taxable income."
"In terms of whether it is fair, that goes into a theoretical debate about what the imputation system is meant to do. Some people would argue of course you should get a refund because the whole idea of our current imputation system is that dividends are effectively taxed at the individual's marginal rate. On the other hand, others argue that our original imputation system shouldn't have been changed to give a refundable tax offset. The argument there is that even if no refund is available, the dividend still has not been taxed at a rate higher that the company rate."
Ms Bain said the current system of refundable imputation credits benefits superannuation funds that have a tax rate of 15 per cent and will often receive large tax refunds as a result of the imputation system.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-30/fact-check-labors-dividend-imputation-policy/10626204
All in all, even with aged pension payments, Australia spends around $227 billion a year on welfare, all inclusive. The thing about welfare though is that it puts back into the community and the economy by allowing people to participate in society in a meaningful way.
And as for the people who built the very society we live within, I'm grateful and all, and given that I'll still point out the ladders pulled up behind them.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Oz_Salvia]
#27593778 - 12/25/21 07:06 AM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oz_Salvia said: Enjoy Stable Genius, and festive cheer. 
Oooooo! a back handed Christmas troll post gift, for me!? You shouldn’t have… and I didn’t get you anything…. How about a gift from the ABC to help with your lack of social skills Here you go, enjoy
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Oz_Salvia
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Ah yes, roll out the unicorns and rainbows reality of the ABC. 
The reality is now seen by all that they're violent and dangerous. Time to close down their so called tent embassy as it's just a conduit for leftist scumbags to riot in Canberra.
https://www.9news.com.au/national/fire-old-parliament-house-canberra-protesters/f7fd935a-d31f-4223-8417-e672fca347b6?ocid=Social-9NewsM
Police have confirmed a fire at Old Parliament House this morning was started by protesters. The fire has caused significant damage to the front facade of the building, with protesters outside heard chanting "let it burn".
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Oz_Salvia
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Yep, the Left decided to double down with none other than indigenous Greens senator Lidia Thorpe cheering on the indigenous mob of arson. I note that piece of garbage pulled her twitter post - too late, it was screen captured.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/technology/online/greens-leader-adam-bandt-remains-silent-over-senator-lidia-thorpes-tweet/news-story/e03757cc367e10255998fd86c125a75b
Backlash over a Greens senator tweeting that the fire at Old Parliament House seemed like the “colonial system burning” has grown as police announced a taskforce to investigate the blaze.



Yep, loading up fuel against the door of this historic old building and cheering the arson. Have to wonder what Leftist icon, the late Whitlam, would have made of this - appalled no doubt. Custodial sentences and lengthy gaol times required.

And see this: the proof video of the fire being deliberately lit by the scumbag Lefties.
How's that ABC unicorns and rainbows video of yours working out, Stable Genius?
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sudly
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Oz_Salvia]
#27601543 - 12/31/21 06:27 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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It doesn't seem clear yet who exactly was involved, and whatever their political affiliations, the actions of burning property is condemned.
In my opinion it is lazy thinking to snowball this and generalise it into a lefties comment.
It seems to ignore unanswered nuances, like who set the fire, why it was set, what was the protest actually for, for indigenous matters or anti vax matters? It's hard to say as of yet what all the details are.
People of all mixes of politican affiliations do both good and bad things, and this still seems like a mixed plot.
Quote:
The circumstances surrounding the blaze were not fully clear. A group called People’s Treaty had gathered at Old Parliament House in recent days, organizing its activities in a Telegram channel seen by The Washington Post. Its users frequently referenced Indigenous concerns. The group’s website references the “deep state” and says it believes in dissolving all forms of government, and that it opposes mandatory vaccinations and coronavirus restrictions. The administrator of the channel and the website couldn’t be reached immediately for comment.
Another group known as MMAMV Australia — for Millions March Against Mandatory Vaccination — live-streamed the fire on Facebook. It had posted from Old Parliament House the previous day, vowing to return “until the job is done” and using the hashtag #takeoldparliament. Posts from this group were shared in the People’s Treaty Telegram channel, though an MMAMV representative told The Post in a Facebook message that the group had “nothing to do with what’s happening” and had only been asked to film the events at Old Parliament House.
“A police investigation into the cause of the fire has commenced,” a spokesperson said. “Old Parliament House will remain closed until further notice.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/29/australia-fire-old-parliament-house/
A lot of the Aboriginal land argument I think is pandering, by all accounts you could consider the entirety of Australia of cultural significance, and for whatever the requests are, no one is getting back their ancestors land. There are plenty of rural lands to inhabit, but urban or suburban sprawl is not up for grabs no matter the historical implications.
I think for me I just don't know what is wanted or desired in regards to culturally significant landmarks etc. And respecting the elders? Hey maybe for plant knowledge and ancient environmental management practices but beyond that anyone of age is in the same boat imo.
Some people take trying to be politically correct, and trying to not offend a living soul to a point too much imo.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: sudly]
#27603899 - 01/02/22 02:12 PM (2 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
In my opinion it is lazy thinking to snowball this and generalise it into a lefties comment.
It seems to ignore unanswered nuances, like who set the fire, why it was set, what was the protest actually for, for indigenous matters or anti vax matters? It's hard to say as of yet what all the details are.
People of all mixes of politican affiliations do both good and bad things, and this still seems like a mixed plot.
Quote:
The circumstances surrounding the blaze were not fully clear. A group called People’s Treaty had gathered at Old Parliament House in recent days, organizing its activities in a Telegram channel seen by The Washington Post. Its users frequently referenced Indigenous concerns. The group’s website references the “deep state” and says it believes in dissolving all forms of government, and that it opposes mandatory vaccinations and coronavirus restrictions. The administrator of the channel and the website couldn’t be reached immediately for comment.
Another group known as MMAMV Australia — for Millions March Against Mandatory Vaccination — live-streamed the fire on Facebook. It had posted from Old Parliament House the previous day, vowing to return “until the job is done” and using the hashtag #takeoldparliament. Posts from this group were shared in the People’s Treaty Telegram channel, though an MMAMV representative told The Post in a Facebook message that the group had “nothing to do with what’s happening” and had only been asked to film the events at Old Parliament House.
“A police investigation into the cause of the fire has commenced,” a spokesperson said. “Old Parliament House will remain closed until further notice.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/29/australia-fire-old-parliament-house/
A lot of the Aboriginal land argument I think is pandering, by all accounts you could consider the entirety of Australia of cultural significance, and for whatever the requests are, no one is getting back their ancestors land. There are plenty of rural lands to inhabit, but urban or suburban sprawl is not up for grabs no matter the historical implications.
I think for me I just don't know what is wanted or desired in regards to culturally significant landmarks etc. And respecting the elders? Hey maybe for plant knowledge and ancient environmental management practices but beyond that anyone of age is in the same boat imo.
Some people take trying to be politically correct, and trying to not offend a living soul to a point too much imo.
Sounds reasonable We are dealing with the fallout from a racist past which is a prickly subject on it's own.
The Aboriginal Tent Embassy has been there a long time though with nothing like this happening. Someone may google this and prove me factually incorrect but whatever, they don't roll like that.
I'd back the anti vax movement for stirring this up, same as the attack on the CFMEU building and staff mid 2021, which would mean there's likely every political party represented but also likely more far far right, yes it's a weird situation alright. https://theconversation.com/white-supremacist-and-far-right-ideology-underpin-anti-vax-movements-172289
Here's one of those no good Labor leftie black senators acting irresponsibly trying to deal with the conspiracy theory problem in remote communities. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/01/pat-dodson-condemns-rogue-christian-groups-spreading-anti-vax-propaganda-in-remote-wa
But hey, let's not allow these sort of minor details to get in the road of a good story.
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Stable Genius
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Quote:
Oz_Salvia said:
Quote:
Stable Genius said: Is this Bronwyn Bishop? This ruling class arrogance towards the peasants reminds me of her.
Is this the best you have, a veiled ad hominem, as an argument, when I've thoroughly beaten every nonsense you have posted?
Your claim your mate Bob Brown kicked off renewables in Australia in the 1990's is totally false, and I've already shown you he has stopped large renewable plants. So go on, double down and demonstrably show your pal was the maestro per your claim in the 90's. 
.... when what I said was
Quote:
Stable Genius said: I'm glad you agree.
Something I find hilarious as well is that if it wasn't for the Greens there'd be next to zero investment in Renewable Energy.
Join me in thanking Bob Brown 
That makes you either a liar, or you don't understand English. If so, why do you feel the need to twist my words?
Strangely enough, a week after I posted that comment Juice Media posted EXACTLY the same point I made. Did they need to clarify their point by having some smart arse say "Oooo Oooo it was John Howard that started it all"? No.
The point was that with the Greens holding the balance of power = they firmly had the Labor Party by the nuts = real investment in renewables = real reductions in carbon emissions.
Pretty simple really.
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Stable Genius
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So as not to derail the Ukraine thread I want to put up some stuff for anyone that may be interested in relation to the CIA's involvement in the overthrow of The Whitlam Government in 1975.
The first one is from CBS and touches on the Nugan Hand Bank. Although it doesn't specifically say so in this video, it sets the scene and touches on the 'coup' yes coup that played out here in '75. The CIA funnelled over 20 million into the Liberal(conservative) Party's pocket, via the Nugan Hand Bank, in the years following Gough Whitlam's election in 1972, and their puppet and go between was The Governor General Sir John Kerr. Kerr had decades of involvement with the Washington spooks. The details in the YouTube comment section are worth reading as well.
Kerr took advice from the Queens private secretary Martin Charteris, as well as a couple of High Court judges on whether he had the constitutional power to sack Whitlam over the Constitutional crisis where the Senate was denying supply and the government was unable to pass anything. As shown in the recently de-classified Kerr Palace Letters released only a year ago, Charteris did NOT advise Kerr to sack Whitlam and neither did the Queen. In fact Whitlam and Kerr had 3 options, Kerr took it upon himself to not only disregard these options, he chose to NOT notify the Queen he was bringing down the government, and this is at the crux of the matter, why the fuck did he choose so??
The Nixon government/spooks/CIA whatever, were completely rattled when Whitlam came to office in '72 as within days of winning the Federal election Whitlam did as promised and ended Australia's involvement in Vietnam as well as poking his nose into the relationship between ASIO and the CIA, as well as threatening to close Pine Gap
There are at least 2 spy bases in Australia, 1 at North West Cape Western Australia but the most well known one is Pine Gap. I think there may have been a third but it was Pine Gap that the U.S. used to not only spy on China and Russia but also co-ordinate the bombing of Cambodia and more recently the drone strikes throughout the conflicts in the Middle East.
But getting back to Pine Gap, does anyone remember the 60 minutes interview Ray Martin did with a guy called Christopher Boyce? Boyce was so disgusted by the CIA's treatment of the Whitlam government towards intelligence sharing, or lack of, gathered from the Pine Gap 'Joint Facility' that he thought, fuck it, and started selling secrets to the Russians.
I couldn't find the 60 Minutes interview but Dateline did one below, after he came out of prison. In that interview he touches on the CIA's infiltration of the trade union movement and in his own words 'the coup' orchestrated against the Whitlam government.
One more, John Pilger interviewed Duane Clarridge, head of the CIA's Latin America division in the 80's, have a listen to this guy, whoa!
Lastly, if you really want to go down the rabbit hole, take the time to go through the excellent article below, again by John Pilger detailing the CIA's behind the scenes overthrow of an elected government, it's what they do best. John Pilger. The forgotten coup against the most loyal ally.
The Russia government are a bunch of amateurs compared to the U.S. government. But this is what these fuckers do, and they keep doing it. It never stops, there's always another government that needs throwing out, always another fucking war. They are homicidal maniacs that operate with impunity and are a scourge on humanity 
Edit. Found the 60 Minutes interview 
https://archive.org/details/ChristopherBoyce1982InterviewRayMartin
Edited by Stable Genius (03/26/22 10:24 AM)
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dunnomuch
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Kryptos]
#27709784 - 03/26/22 06:59 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Mate, Australia is a minnow on the world stage. It’s 90b subs will surface, if they ever do that is, in 20 years. China builds one nuclear submarine every year, each year. They can possibly enter the port of Darwin, which they operate on a 90 year lease, whiteout asking. Could be wrong about the 90 years. The loud mouthed politicians who seem to have zero clue about international relations make things only worse by their chest beating, dumbass comments. Morrison, for example refused to meet the new Chinese ambassador because it would be seen as weakness. What a moron. They can all piss off…..
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: dunnomuch]
#27709816 - 03/26/22 07:35 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for the comment but I don't quite get your point as you make many points?
I posted the Whitlam government history lesson here instead of the Ukraine thread in response to being told the CIA involvement was a load of crap, which it's not.
Anyway, glad you took the time to join in and if you have the inclination to, check out some of those video's, especially the 60 Minutes one, Christopher Boyce is cool as F, what a champion
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Psilynut2
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Wasn't Whitman caught trying to raise money illegally and isnt that the reason Sir John Kerr called the election and the Labor party was defeated ?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loans_affair
What Whitman did was unconstitutional and what Kerr did was not . If it isn't unconstitutional it isn't a coupe . I'm not saying the cia didn't try to exert influence though , they do that everywhere .
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Psilynut2]
#27709859 - 03/26/22 08:44 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Whitlam made quite a few mistakes. Trying to borrow money from Tirath Khemlani was one of them.
Running the country for the first few weeks with only himself and Jim Cairns was probably another one. Ballsy though. It also showed how arrogant he was and why his ministers had trouble working for him.
If you look further into whether or not Kerrs actions were constitutional and thus 'legal' there's STILL debate over that as the powers he used aren't written down anywhere, that's why he asked for advice not only from the Queen's private secretary but also 2 serving Australian High Court judges. Martin Charteris clearly advised him NOT to do it, but he went ahead and did it anyway WITHOUT notifying the Queen either, which is something that is also still argued about.
Also, if you look at the three options he and Whitlam had available to resolve the crisis you have to ask why didn't he allow Whitlam to choose one which is EXACTLY what Gough was on his way to do when he went to see Kerr and was sacked. Gough was ambushed with the leader of the opposition sitting in the next room.
Whitlam also had the power to sack The Governor General.
I know I've posted a few videos in the other post but they are worth putting into the equation and looking at. Christopher Boyce called it flat out a coup, I think it was also.
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dunnomuch
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Mate, Australia is a minnow on the world stage. It’s 90b subs will surface, if they ever do that is, in 20 years. China builds one nuclear submarine every year, each year. They can possibly enter the port of Darwin, which they operate on a 90 year lease, whiteout asking. Could be wrong about the 90 years. The loud mouthed politicians who seem to have zero clue about international relations make things only worse by their chest beating, dumbass comments. Morrison, for example refused to meet the new Chinese ambassador because it would be seen as weakness. What a moron. They can all piss off…..Quote:
Stable Genius said: Thanks for the comment but I don't quite get your point as you make many points?
I posted the Whitlam government history lesson here instead of the Ukraine thread in response to being told the CIA involvement was a load of crap, which it's not.
Anyway, glad you took the time to join in and if you have the inclination to, check out some of those video's, especially the 60 Minutes one, Christopher Boyce is cool as F, what a champion 
Mate, I was referring to the huge power imbalance between OZ and China subs or not. The subs business was always a cock up, Collins class. Apart from that, the navy has problems trying to staff those, let alone what might eventually arrive. The flurry of current, almost daily announcements on some defence spending, has more to do with the election coming than serious, we’ll researched, properly costed projects. Oz doesn't have a good track record with defence spending, F35s Abrams tanks (second hand) etc. I resent so much money expended on arms. I think that is what I attempted to write, not well enough i'm sure. 😊
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Stable Genius
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: dunnomuch]
#27710043 - 03/27/22 12:39 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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No worries Yeah by the time those subs arrive I'll be in a wheelchair.
It's a pity we don't make better use of diplomacy instead of the sabre rattling coming from the Morrison government, in particular Peter Dutton, he just doesn't know when to stfu. Typical pig headed ex cop.
Do you think Labor has a chance this time around? I'll be voting Labor
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Stable Genius
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The Greens are talking about abolishing student debt, I think it's a great idea, especially if it's done instead of a tax cut, which will mainly benefit the rich. If they end up with the balance of power with Labor that's when we'll see some action.
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7670824/greens-pledge-to-abolish-student-debts-as-election-pledge/?cs=14264
The Libs have been treading water for too long, time to get rid of them.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Are you familiar with the Australian program "Q+A"?
They just kicked out a guy for saying he supports Russia.
If you watch to the end, you'll see the question he originally wanted to ask that they wouldn't allow.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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