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Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27470127 - 09/16/21 03:01 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Let's can the 90 billion dollar French diesel electric submarine program and buy American nuclear submarines we don't even have the engineers to maintain!

Aussie Aussie Aussie, What Tha Fluk!


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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27470994 - 09/16/21 07:24 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Mmmmm I think if we're going to spend 90 billion it's probably a good idea to buy the best technology, which nuclear powered subs are.

It also strengthens Asia Pacific security, despite what China is saying.

And lets face it, this deal is all about sending a huge FUCK YOU message to China.




2.5 billion just got wasted on design costs and the overall cost of the nuclear program is yet to be announced.

If we're going to spend 90 billion we could use it to help the people instead of the military industrial complex and invest in part or full dental and tuition coverage included in Medicare. Full coverage for dental would cost an estimate range from $6.7 billion to $11 billion a year.

I'm not for full coverage of tuition or dental, just a set amount to help cover the basics.

E.g. 10,000 towards tuition one time, and 1000 a year for dental.

I haven't heard any partial funding suggestions but I think it meets a good middle ground of cost and benefit.

Some people require 250,000 for tuition ,  some 20,000. Some people need 15000 for dental, some 300.

Security is the governments excuse for screwing over the people and feeding the military industrial complex exactly what it pays our politicians for.


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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27470996 - 09/16/21 07:27 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

What do you think of a bill for campaign finance reform to make it so that large corporations can't make politicians beholden to them with large donations and shadowy quid pro quo arrangements.

1000 days since they said they'd have an ICC, and nothing but corruption since.

Pork barreling etc.


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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27471224 - 09/17/21 02:03 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

There's also that the first submarines won't be operational before 20 years if everything goes well and there aren't delays that add more.

And I heard today that by 2050 technology likely will have advanced making the submarines more or less obsolete.

If it's for protection or security, something that takes 20 years to do anything and by then will be less effective is a strange thing indeed.


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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Kryptos]
    #27472301 - 09/17/21 10:10 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Can you like tldr?


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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Kryptos]
    #27473272 - 09/18/21 05:28 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

There's also the struggle of actually convincing people to take up your opinions and a lot of people shut out or shutdown things like paid tuition that older folk got.

If we do nothing we're lucky to get crumbs. Sometimes a bite is better, and in the corrupt and fd up systems we have, a bite is a damn good start.

And even then, there are personal choices and if you go into a field that leaves you with 200,000 in debt, to try and make 200,000k a year, you've made that choice and I think you should get the same basic assistant as all the other people who took a less balsy option, or didn't put down as large a gamble.

Society can technically afford all kinds of shit, but realistically a lot won't pass.

Quote:

If a movement is to have an impact it must belong to those who join it, not those who lead it.




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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #27473384 - 09/18/21 07:24 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Money is still always in the question whether you like it or not.

The question is not how many people get to choose the direction, that is democracy. The question is whether those who were put in place to lead and listen to the will of the majority will do so.

Like in QLD, 80% of the public were for the right to end of life bill and it still went to a conscience vote, democracy was superseded and left at the personal whims of a handful of people.

Quote:

Do we want more people to have smaller individual input, or do we want fewer people to be empowered to make bigger changes?




We want equal opportunities, and what does it mean to have more people having less input?

How does that factor in, or why would someone have less input?

Everyone together is empowered to make bigger decisions, but again it depends on if those elected to listen to those decisions actually do so.

You give everyone a starting chance and some use that equal opportunity to make more of themselves or more for themselves.

We don't decide where we put the plinko lines, we're given a chance and we put in effort to reach them, unfortunately in your plinko analogy luck seems to be the majority factor. At least, in real life you're given a starting opportunity and you work your way up the line.

We the people use democracy and the leaders we have to represent us, they are supposed to represent us but they often don't because they take quid pro quo arrangements through veiled political donations from large interest groups.

There's a system of representatives from local to federal and when they're voted in as a representative, their job is to do that. A lot don't and we know that.


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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #27473643 - 09/18/21 10:42 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

You are voting for someone to read the polls of the public and to represent a democratic will.

A million or one, they have a job to do and making them do it comes first.

The responsibility to represent the democratic vote is what matters.

All I'm for is an equal opportunity, a good starting position for everyone to get themselves a foot up in life to be able to contribute more in the future.

We did not give control to the rich people per say, they propagandised the public through a set Overton window that the media represents (e.g. lower tax for rich, more spending for military), to lead the public to vote for people who called themselves representatives of the public then failed in being a representative of the public because lobbyists lobbied them not to.



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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Kryptos]
    #27473769 - 09/19/21 12:43 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

That's the whole problem, that elected representatives represent their lobbyists, and not the public that voted them in to that position.

If anyone can defend the fact that apple does not pay taxes, they themselves are willingly or otherwise a propagandist.


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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Kryptos]
    #27475138 - 09/20/21 02:47 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Sounds like you've fallen for the old, billionaires work 1000x more than their workers. Instead of wage exploitation and a business model that once produced, makes it's own money.. 

Having more corrupt politicians wouldn't help, being corrupt is the problem I'm pointing out.

The 'decision club' is a quid pro quo arrangement, and yes, I would like that to stop.

You're fine with legalised bribery, and I am not.

At least you're open about it. :shrug:


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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Kryptos]
    #27475936 - 09/20/21 03:56 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Rich people being legally allowed to bribe politicians specifically is the issue.

You may not be able to remove %100 percent of corruption by removing the legality of bribing politicians, but it's a damn good start.

Right now criminalizing financial corruption would be the only thing that made the price of corruption too high, because currently you can donate 50k and get millions in contracts, thousands of percent profits on your investments.

Quote:

Fewer than two years and after tens of millions of dollars spent on lobbying, political donations, and lawsuits aimed at bullying its critics, Exxon has executed what could amount to a staggering reversal of its political and financial fortunes. For the company, the 2016 presidential election was the inflection point. Instead of fighting to survive in a carbon-constrained world in which many of its oil and gas reserves were at risk of being stranded, Exxon now has the opportunity to build a policy environment of largely unrestricted greenhouse gas pollution that facilitates the expansion of fossil fuel production and consumption for decades to come. Investors in the U.S. stock market seem to understand the financial implications of the election for Exxon: Between November 8 and December 31, 2016, the company’s share price rose 7 percent, amounting to a $21 billion increase in the market value of the company in fewer than two months.

The financial benefits of the 2016 election for Exxon—which will be attained and compounded by the unprecedented corporate power the company is building inside the Trump administration—are difficult to measure at this point but nearly impossible to overstate. This column identifies seven major financial payouts that could flow to Exxon during the Trump administration, assisted by five Trump Cabinet nominees: former Exxon CEO Rex Tillerson for secretary of state; Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt (R) for Environmental Protection Agency administrator; Rep. Ryan Zinke (R-MT) for secretary of the Interior; former Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) for secretary of energy; and Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL) for attorney general. Each of these nominees has either been employed by Exxon or received massive financial contributions from it. All told, these potential benefits could amount to at least $1 trillion for Exxon over the coming years.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/green/news/2017/01/10/296277/how-exxon-won-the-2016-election/





More people in power could mean more potential for corruption..

How about the idea of just reducing corruption by not allowing legalised bribery of politicians.


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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Kryptos]
    #27476190 - 09/20/21 07:56 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

It hasn't been attacked at the root by those in power because they suckle from its effect.

Australia follows the US like a lapdog, or at the very least, what happens in the US can influence Australian decisions.

And a new amendment to overturn the likes of citizens United is a good effort imo.

Quote:

Wolf-PAC argues that Congress is too corrupted by big money and special interests to adequately address campaign finance reform, citing sources ranging from personal experience to a well known Princeton study. 

The organization works nationwide with state legislators using the state initiated convention procedure in Article V of the Constitution to propose an amendment to fix the influence that big money and special interests have over the American government. Wolf-PAC asserts that applying for a convention will either directly result in the desired amendment or pressure Congress to act.

The catalyst behind much of the modern campaign finance reform effort is Citizens United v. FEC, which overturned the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act (BCRA) of 2003, commonly known as McCain-Feingold. Uygur, though, says he was motivated principally by the major precedents that lead to Citizens United, like Buckley v. Valeo (1976), which equated campaign spending with free speech and First National Bank of Boston v. Bellotti (1978), which allowed independent expenditures by corporations to influence elections. 

Wolf-PAC has also cited subsequent cases as further demonstrating the need for a Constitutional Amendment, such as American Tradition Partnership, Inc. v. Bullock (2012) and McCutcheon v. FEC (2015).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf-PAC





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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Kryptos]
    #27476279 - 09/20/21 09:20 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

5 states have passed it and 24 have introduced it for consideration

Build a grass roots movement and pressure each state to sign on, and no it's not easy, god damned no where near, but it's that or suck it up, never try and never complain.

What makes you think that just putting more people in politics will make for less corruption?

Maybe if everyone new gets a litmus test not to take political donations from large corporations it'd work.


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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Kryptos]
    #27477304 - 09/21/21 06:17 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Campaign finance reforms about it really.

Depends whose in power when you make more officials right? Still not sure how more people really changes anything but seems like the kind of thing of side would use to stack the odds in their favour.

It's a new idea at least:thumbup:


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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Kryptos]
    #27478352 - 09/22/21 02:28 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Favours for money, e.g. quid pro quo is a big one.

Paid dinners for access is horrible too.

Drugs sex and weapons you don't hear as much about in Aus and US but I'm sure it has some influence.

In Cartel areas it may play more of a role.

But like weapons in the US goes to political donations too, because lobbyists for the military industrial complex pay politicians to keep wars going and contracts flowing.

And drugs, take price gouging for example, the US government at least won't change drug price laws because again pharmaceutical lobbyists lobby them not to change the pricing laws, plus there was the whole opiod issue that companies keep getting sued billions for.

At least Australia doesn't have the price gouging issue and Medicare is decent for the moment, but with the betrayal France feels and NATO is seeing from Australia, it's hard to trust Aus pollies for sure.

They told France the morning of that the submarine deal was fine and could go to the next phase before letting them know in the afternoon it was changed!

Less dark money and more transparency wouldn't stop corruption but would increase public pressure.

Often the culture of a company or corporation leads to the decisions that result in corruption so more people equals less corruption.


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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Byrain]
    #27478684 - 09/22/21 07:16 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Yep, is not a good idea to gather in big groups to protest a lockdown caused by doing things like gathering in big groups.


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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Byrain]
    #27479035 - 09/23/21 04:16 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

When you start pissing on a ww2 monument things tend to get a lil heated.

I'm not happy the police decided to use force, and I'm not happy people hosted a super spreader event to stop the lockdown but I have heard that the protest in Sydney or Melbourne a few weeks ago has organisational roots in a German conspiracy group.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jul/27/who-behind-australia-anti-covid-lockdown-protest-march-rallies-sydney-melbourne-far-right-and-german-conspiracy-groups-driving-protests

Sounds like a reddit thread lead to Australian anti lockdown protests cus people like to watch shit burn if it's not in their country.

But your blowdarts idea! Wowee that's a good one, let the hunt begin! :thumbup:


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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27484401 - 09/27/21 09:09 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

It certainly wasn't a million people.


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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #27507403 - 10/17/21 01:28 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)



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Re: The Australian Politics Thread [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27513119 - 10/22/21 02:06 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Well, we're last in climate efforts, although our export of coal are bad, even with that aside we dawdle a lot as a country.


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