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Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher



Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 786
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Fiery]
#27268954 - 03/25/21 01:57 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fiery said:I cringe at the people asking for "proof" of god and pray that someday they will find it before they die- because surely there is no stopping it then.
Personally I only ask for proof when confronted with an institutional belief in god that by definition demands something from me in the first place.
I think I have faith in a divine connection some people may call god, and this definition I don't find problematic. But caution must be taken with regards to organized religion or doctrines of faith ("doctrine" and "faith" seem kind of contradictory in my opinion)
The problem you identify stems from the lack of a centralized definition of god... I only aim to criticize Abrahamic & dogmatic constructions of the meaning.
god is great if by god you just mean a divine connection undefined by our awareness, and solely defined by how we feel in regards to said god/the confrontation of the infinitely complex external world (e.g. I feel connected, loved, joy and bliss - for me this is divine)
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,958
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Rhizomorph]
#27268981 - 03/25/21 02:12 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Set your holy book on fire if God asks you to.
That's what separates "those of the book" from the "followers of God"
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Fiery
Sword of Fire


Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 36,574
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Rhizomorph]
#27269000 - 03/25/21 02:24 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well said--
and forgive me if you felt like I was speaking to you directly or criticizing you personally- I was Just running thoughts through the spectroverse-
I find the problem of finding things problematic is the problem itself sometimes- And if people want to pray 3 times a day- or lay prostrate before god- or pray to the hundreds of greek gods or the holy trinity I am all for it as long as it "harms none"
And unfortunately this brings up an entire long conversation that I don't have time for.. the whole " harms none" thing and how even though it may seem harmless it's not.
So- until next time. Kudos and cheers
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Fiery
Sword of Fire


Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 36,574
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Asante]
#27269002 - 03/25/21 02:26 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: Set your holy book on fire if God asks you to.
That's what separates "those of the book" from the "followers of God"
Yes the knights Templar and many other people have done terrible things because of centralized religion.
However- one time "a buddy of mine" smoked a joint out of a page of a bible.. Does that count as setting god on fire?

But I feel you Asante- just know the limits of "May it harm none"
And I literally just had Deja Vu of a conversation we had MANY years ago where we were talking about this exact same thing.. wow- that came out of nowhere.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,958
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Fiery]
#27269024 - 03/25/21 02:39 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Nothing matters but the Will of God.
It is the Will of God directed at you that may make permissible to you what is forbidden to others.
Its easy to reap from the gardens of anothet, but, WILL YOU SELF-SACRIFICE IF GOD ASKS IT OF YOU?
Thats what matters.
Will you buy the gold coin for you, or take that money to, in a country you'll never visit, build 3 water wells for 2000 of the most destitute, and plant abundant food trees by 20 orphanages so that 1000 orphans you will never meet, can eat?
God didnt ask me to. He didnt have to ask.
I volunteerded as a personal tribute to Him, a gift to these 3000 people.
I asked him if he would accept that offering, and he was most pleased.
And now a community fundraiser is starting... but its a slow cold start.
Will you offer a stranger a plate at your table?
Will you expel the mango worms from their flesh?
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher



Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 786
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Fiery]
#27269027 - 03/25/21 02:40 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fiery said:and forgive me if you felt like I was speaking to you directly or criticizing you personally- I was Just running thoughts through the spectroverse
Nah, I was just thinking out loud as well haha.
I appreciate your insights!
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Neurotech
Stranger


Registered: 05/05/20
Posts: 651
Last seen: 4 hours, 9 minutes
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Rhizomorph]
#27270459 - 03/26/21 03:19 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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You ever make your kids do something they didn't want to for their own good? Ever kill something like a bug so it wouldn't hurt you? Ever have a baby animal killed so you could eat it? Are you evil? Or is that the nature of reality. Can you think of a better way? All of us together, along with everything we know and see, that's what god is made of. And even when we fuck up royally, most of us are trying our best. God is trying our best. That's the nature of the game. Its how this reality works. Intentional or not. Its this reality that also allows also for love, beauty, bliss. Can you feel empathy for those poor worms? Can you love what seems bad and despicable? I think God can. And you have the best result from a trip when you can love even the darker sides of yourself and others.
Namaste
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Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher



Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 786
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Neurotech]
#27270660 - 03/26/21 05:32 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sure, I can imagine how bad would be neccessary for good or 'love' under a God who is not all-powerful or all-good, but as I've described above, the "all powerful' principle means god could bend the universe to his will so that bad would not be a necessary quality for good or love.
Any explanation for why punishing our children is a necessary criterion for love can be overruled by the all-powerful principle. Sure, we may not be able to imagine a universe where it is not a necessary criterion (as we are not all-powerful), but then the all-powerful principle is beyond what we can imagine - it has infinite possibilities; it is more powerful than the rules of our universe or psychology that state that punishment can sometimes be moral; it is more powerful than the good-bad duality you are talking about. This is what god is claimed to be capable of if god is all good all powerful and all knowing.
Edited by Rhizomorph (03/26/21 05:34 PM)
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper



Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Asante]
#27275226 - 03/30/21 02:04 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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God created the Law of Karma then retired. ~Gandhi
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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Neurotech
Stranger


Registered: 05/05/20
Posts: 651
Last seen: 4 hours, 9 minutes
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Rhizomorph]
#27275598 - 03/30/21 10:31 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rhizomorph said: Sure, I can imagine how bad would be neccessary for good or 'love' under a God who is not all-powerful or all-good, but as I've described above, the "all powerful' principle means god could bend the universe to his will so that bad would not be a necessary quality for good or love.
Sounds like Heaven or Nirvana. That's the goal. This universe is the game. What's the point in a game if everyone knows they win and already won?
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 1 month, 15 days
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Rhizomorph]
#27276621 - 03/31/21 03:27 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rhizomorph said: Sure, I can imagine how bad would be neccessary for good or 'love' under a God who is not all-powerful or all-good, but as I've described above, the "all powerful' principle means god could bend the universe to his will so that bad would not be a necessary quality for good or love.
Any explanation for why punishing our children is a necessary criterion for love can be overruled by the all-powerful principle. Sure, we may not be able to imagine a universe where it is not a necessary criterion (as we are not all-powerful), but then the all-powerful principle is beyond what we can imagine - it has infinite possibilities; it is more powerful than the rules of our universe or psychology that state that punishment can sometimes be moral; it is more powerful than the good-bad duality you are talking about. This is what god is claimed to be capable of if god is all good all powerful and all knowing.
I disagree that we need X to know Y, etc. That's conflating corollaries with opposites, another infamous philosophical speed bump rarely addressed. We're discussing apples and dishwashers here.
I'm not pointing fingers at you personally this is just a very, very common occurrence on here! 
--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#27276640 - 03/31/21 04:31 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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My model for the procession of Gods comes from Aeon Flux:
First, there was Clavius, who went mad with power. Made his corrupt friends statesmen. Common people suffered.
Then a progressive, Trevor, who was kind of a detached, scientific, progressive psychopath himself, sensed a vacuum in ability, and exploited it, to seize power himself.
And that's really how the world is. That's the nature of social power. One flavor of psychopath takes over from another, and common people suffer in new, different, ever-changing ways.
What can we infer from that, about the nature of God? That they are either all-powerful, yet uncaring and evil, or they are good-natured, but weak in this world, which some see as an elaborate trick, or simulation.
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Gypsy Boy
Redeemer



Registered: 03/17/17
Posts: 4,501
Loc: Deep in the discoteka
Last seen: 3 months, 13 days
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: DoctorJ]
#27277810 - 04/22/21 07:35 AM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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God gives me faith
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Neurotech
Stranger


Registered: 05/05/20
Posts: 651
Last seen: 4 hours, 9 minutes
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: DoctorJ]
#27278050 - 04/22/21 11:13 AM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: My model for the procession of Gods comes from Aeon Flux:
First, there was Clavius, who went mad with power. Made his corrupt friends statesmen. Common people suffered.
Then a progressive, Trevor, who was kind of a detached, scientific, progressive psychopath himself, sensed a vacuum in ability, and exploited it, to seize power himself.
And that's really how the world is. That's the nature of social power. One flavor of psychopath takes over from another, and common people suffer in new, different, ever-changing ways.
What can we infer from that, about the nature of God? That they are either all-powerful, yet uncaring and evil, or they are good-natured, but weak in this world, which some see as an elaborate trick, or simulation.
Can't we infer that the way this universe works is exactly how God intended and that we don't understand why? Again, personally, I can't imagine how an all pleasant reality could exist. Why? Because it is not the nature of reality. If plants always felt fine, they wouldn't grow towards the light. They go towards "better". We all try to. "Better" implies the existence of less good or bad. Without better, we would have nothing to do. Even electrons would not need to spin I imagine. Reality as we know it requires duality. So thank you God for the world that can only exist as we know it.
Buddhist thinking recognizes this I believe. The source of all suffering is wishing things were different than they are. Happiness is when you are in sync with the enrgies of this universe, not when you second guess it. Embrace EVERYTHING since that is all that is real here. Besides that, hey if we are really all one and the universe is an illusion, its one we made and are simultaneously part of.
Bears repeating: Can't we infer that the way this universe works is exactly how God intended and that we don't understand why?
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Moonlightblue



Registered: 12/07/12
Posts: 455
Last seen: 14 days, 5 hours
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Neurotech]
#27279244 - 04/23/21 12:26 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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God is everything, Love!
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Romans 13:10 KJV https://bible.com/bible/1/rom.13.10.KJV
Everyone you see, what you look at, what you touch and feel. Satan doesn't control any of this reality, it can only manipulate it.
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 1 month, 15 days
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Moonlightblue]
#27280004 - 04/24/21 02:38 AM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonlightblue said: God is everything, Love!

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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper




Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Asante]
#27280891 - 04/24/21 10:23 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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chopstick
nobody



Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 5,135
Loc: Chin's Wok
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Cracka_X] 2
#27290343 - 05/02/21 12:17 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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My understanding is that all are One and all are the Creator.
In other words, we are mirror images of eachother, different aspects of the One Infinite Creator which came into being out of a primal desire of the One Creator to know itself.
The Creator is infinite and thus expands infinitely and is capable of creating infinite copies/versions of itself (which we get to experience ourselves as)
The Creator has designed the current experiment in which we live so that it may experience itself in all ways imaginable and understand itself to the full degree.
There is no difference between the self and an other-self other than surface level differences. By looking into the eyes of another person, you are both staring into the eyes of The Creator in all its glory, as well as looking into a mirror that reflects the self.
We are all One.
The concept of separation is a temporary illusion, it's part of the experiment so that the Creator may know itself. Eventually, all beings will reunite as One, into a single point of light. Then after a period of eternal timelessness, everything separates again and then a new universe will be born. My understanding is that this has occurred countless times and will continue for eternity. Every single experience of every single entity is taken into account in order to improve the next octave of existence.
We are all the Creator.
Now if we could only get humanity to remember this and break free from the illusion... then we really could have paradise on Earth.
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skOsH
Functionally dysfunctional



Registered: 07/03/19
Posts: 1,377
Loc: the PNW
Last seen: 5 days, 18 hours
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: chopstick]
#27290351 - 05/02/21 12:24 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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I feel like the universe is a living thing, and we are just parts in this giant thing. On the quantum scale, things are just too weird, and literally different vibrations create different things in the universe.
I just think the universe at large, is alive, and we are a species that can wonder about the mysteries of the universe in the first place. Basically, we are the universe observing itself.
To me, that's a god. Although I think this is an elaborate simulation. Either way, there exists this all powerful being, technically. I know I am just made up as the universe chugs along, so it feels very much like a simulation to me.
Edited by skOsH (05/02/21 12:32 PM)
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Neurotech
Stranger

Registered: 05/05/20
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: chopstick]
#27290428 - 05/02/21 01:11 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Absolutely. Really nicely laid out.
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