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 Cheplatra
Farm Fresh
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 Mealworm Farmer wonderings/questions  4
#27221783 - 02/23/21 07:57 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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So I have been growing microdoses for my coder brother and his friends for a few months now, and want to get into edible mushrooms, and I want to use the materials we can't sell from work in mushroom grows to explore new market avenues.
Currently the waste of our mealworm farm is about a ton of frass(insectpoop) a week, and we can't sell it, because there still is no EU rules for using it to fertilize human food.
About a 20L of sheddings a week, which from my research is about 18%chitin and 9%chitosan, both things our lovely shroomies are made of.
About 50kg of bone dry hollowed out potatoes, basically just skins.
I definitely want to add frass to both my grain and substrate in varying amounts because poop = fertilizer. And I read somewhere oysters like nitrogen, which sound like a perfect match since its tested at 3-1-1 NPK. I don't know about the chitin though. Do you guys think the mycelium will use it as is/at all, or does the shrooms prefer to make their own?
I guess the potatoes can be pulverized and used for agar.
I am going to be using my shoebox TEK from the cubes, oats-> coir/verm, no liner, and transplanting the ready colony to a small martha I am assembling @ next payslip. Just like how the astro way's setup.
Any obvious pitfalls or forgettings?
Any suggestions or ideas?
Wanna try? free+shipping, we are literally filling a barn with this stuff.
Experiments will commence next week if Amazon is fast.
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Hikeadellic
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Re: Mealworm Farmer wonderings/questions [Re: Cheplatra]
#27227804 - 02/26/21 03:13 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've heard of worm casings being used as a good additive to bulk substrate, If you have that much poop, you might want to look into setting up an outdoor grow Summers almost here so you want to start right when the ground thaws
One thing to look out for when using poop is that it is more prone to contam if your pasteurization is a little off. You want to make sure you got your temperatures right so you kill the bad stuff and leave the good stuff
I've heard potatoes are good for agar
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Psilosopherr
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Re: Mealworm Farmer wonderings/questions [Re: Hikeadellic]
#27230218 - 02/28/21 07:35 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Sounds like its worth a shot. does it dissolve in water? Buncha tiny nuggets might create hotspots, might be better ground or dissolved in water.
I've never grown cordyceps but I wonder if mealworm corpses would be of use for them
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Cheplatra
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Re: Mealworm Farmer wonderings/questions [Re: Psilosopherr]
#27232306 - 03/01/21 04:15 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Hikeadellic said:
One thing to look out for when using poop is that it is more prone to contam if your pasteurization is a little off. You want to make sure you got your temperatures right so you kill the bad stuff and leave the good stuff
I've heard potatoes are good for agar
I plan to PC Frass in initial experiments
The dry potatoes work just fine, it just makes grey opaque agar.
Quote:
Psilosopherr said:
Sounds like its worth a shot. does it dissolve in water? Buncha tiny nuggets might create hotspots, might be better ground or dissolved in water.
I've never grown cordyceps but I wonder if mealworm corpses would be of use for them
it does not dissolve, but it is a very fine powder. You would be able to extract a lot of soluble nutrients quite easily.
It is basically just dry potato and grain gnawed to a fine powder. there is a lot of leftover flour in it as well. I have speculated if BRF could be substituted.
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Hikeadellic
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Re: Mealworm Farmer wonderings/questions [Re: Cheplatra]
#27232364 - 03/01/21 04:57 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've heard that bulk substrates should be pasteurized, not sterilized
The good germs left over from pasteurization help the process, sterile bulk is generally a no-no
Goes back to my suggestion of using the frass outdoors
When you are outside it does not matter if its sterile or not, its all just dirt when its in the ground
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 mycorry
The Empirical
Registered: 06/01/18
Posts: 387
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Re: Mealworm Farmer wonderings/questions [Re: Cheplatra]
#27232496 - 03/01/21 06:10 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Sounds like a whole lot of free nutrition. 
I would try mixing it with straw or choir, bring it to field capacity, sterilize in myco bags, then inoculate with an LC(hot glue where you injected). Let bags colonize for a few weeks then fruit out of the bag. Also, if bags are too much $ you can substitute in glass jars, just top fruit them.
I think you may be right about substituting it for BRF but pasteurization may be a pain. However, it doesn't hurt to try.
Whatever direction you choose to go would you mind posting the results? This is a pretty neat topic IMO
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zMan
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Re: Mealworm Farmer wonderings/questions [Re: mycorry]
#27232719 - 03/01/21 08:40 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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If I was you I would run a bunch of trial jars, preferably with an isolate and just have a normal jar and then a few with varying amounts of additives.
Should be interesting to see.
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Cyonic
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Re: Mealworm Farmer wonderings/questions [Re: Cheplatra]
#27232907 - 03/01/21 10:58 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would follow one of the worm poo teks, switch out the worm poo with frass.
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Cheplatra
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Re: Mealworm Farmer wonderings/questions [Re: zMan]
#27255244 - 03/16/21 07:45 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Hikeadellic said:
I've heard that bulk substrates should be pasteurized, not sterilized
sterile bulk is generally a no-no
Coir is usually sterile, vermiculite is expanded rock made at like 600c what beneficial bacteria are we really ever feeding our indoor grows?
My plan was to sterilize jars or bags of frass, and add it to the B-S during pasteurization. There be rats in them there barns, among other things.
Quote:
mycorry said:
Sounds like a whole lot of free nutrition.
I would try mixing it with straw or choir, bring it to field capacity, sterilize in myco bags, then inoculate with an LC(hot glue where you injected). Let bags colonize for a few weeks then fruit out of the bag. Also, if bags are too much $ you can substitute in glass jars, just top fruit them.
I think you may be right about substituting it for BRF but pasteurization may be a pain. However, it doesn't hurt to try.
Whatever direction you choose to go would you mind posting the results? This is a pretty neat topic IMO
Can I use chicken bags instead of myco-bags? You know those plastic bags you roast a chicken in? Those are cheap as fuck and can do 200c easy.
The BRF substitution is for way later when I find time, but that could be the game-changer, if I could produce even more protein, on the frass alone.
How would people like updates? By reply or updates to the OP?
Quote:
zMan said:
If I was you I would run a bunch of trial jars, preferably with an isolate and just have a normal jar and then a few with varying amounts of additives.
Should be interesting to see.
First I'm going to run 4-5 shoeboxes with coir and oats. 1to4 frass-coir up to 1to1. First box with no frass is colonizing right now.
Then i will try frass with the oats.
Then boiling nutes out of frass and using water for oat hydration and coir pasteurization.
Amazon fucked me and sent me broken atomizer for my DIY humidifier setup, so the Martha will have to wait till next month, will have to start in dubtubs...
Edited by Cheplatra (03/16/21 07:55 AM)
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zMan
zMan
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Re: Mealworm Farmer wonderings/questions [Re: Cheplatra]
#27255585 - 03/16/21 12:23 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Information for everyone: http://www.mushroomvideos.com
Are your grains or spawn clean? CLICK THIS CHECKLIST
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mycorry
The Empirical
Registered: 06/01/18
Posts: 387
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Re: Mealworm Farmer wonderings/questions [Re: Cheplatra]
#27255646 - 03/16/21 01:34 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Cheplatra said:
Can I use chicken bags instead of myco-bags? You know those plastic bags you roast a chicken in? Those are cheap as fuck and can do 200c easy.
The BRF substitution is for way later when I find time, but that could be the game-changer, if I could produce even more protein, on the frass alone.
How would people like updates? By reply or updates to the OP?
I don't think chicken bags will work out unless they are polypropylene(PP5), even then they wont have a filter on them. Unicorn bags are about $1 each on ebay and amazon if you buy em in stacks of 10. A cheap impulse sealer to seal the bags will set you back about $35 from the same places.
I imagine a mix of frass, straw and sand would be a good substrate for most psilocybes, depending on the texture. That would be IF the PH is correct; I have no idea what PH frass would be.
As for updates, if you ever make a big effort at cultivate mushrooms using frass come back here and post your results and what you learned. This will help keep things a little better organized for the search function.
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Edited by mycorry (03/16/21 01:35 PM)
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Cheplatra
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Re: Mealworm Farmer wonderings/questions [Re: mycorry]
#27257812 - 03/17/21 04:58 PM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
mycorry said:
I don't think chicken bags will work out unless they are polypropylene(PP5), even then they wont have a filter on them. Unicorn bags are about $1 each on ebay
IF PH is correct.
I live in Scandinavia, and those bags never seem to be sold the places i buy all my other gear. Right now I just can't afford to spread my money such. "unicorn mushroom bag" nets results of school-bags for little girls on German/EU Amazon, and all the unicorns on EU-Ebay, are from UK and because of brexit, those now cost an arm, a leg and the white of your eyes to import...
From an earlier experiment I know that PE/PET does not melt in PC, it shrinks. I think these heat-resistant roasting bags, have somehow been cured of this shrinkage. For they are polyester and rated at 210c. I'm for sure gonna try these, and for venting I'm thinking, poke a hole with soldering iron or lighter, stuff with poly, or a slab of micropore on both sides.
I have test strips for aquarium, but no idea how i would prepare the frass to take a measurement for PH
And coming back here with updates was always the plan, just wanted to know if people liked edits to first-post or a new reply so the entire topic is bumped.
Edited by Cheplatra (03/17/21 05:05 PM)
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Nichrome
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Re: Mealworm Farmer wonderings/questions [Re: Cheplatra]
#27258231 - 03/17/21 11:51 PM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
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Insect frass 2-2-2 sells for around $10 USD per lb here at the garden store. You ever think of exporting?
Oysters already eat many different insects as well as nematodes.
Have you thought of growing cordyceps militaris?
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RoadAppleSnapple
Learning.
Registered: 12/31/20
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Re: Mealworm Farmer wonderings/questions [Re: Nichrome]
#27261512 - 03/20/21 08:16 AM (3 years, 27 days ago) |
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Nichrome has a point with exporting.
Frass is gaining popularity in legal Cannabis markets. I'd bet that's your easiest path to profit off the poop. Especially if you cater to fancy organic canna growers who love to spend on the latest greatest.
Seems to me you have some great nutrients on hand, they just lack popularity because most folks have better access to other things.
I'd bet that if you work on finding a good consistency to your substrates, the mushrooms with happily take in the nutrition you make available.
Potato flake agar is very popular and you are offering pre-digested potatoes in a substrate. I see success in your future.
Following along. Neat project!
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Nichrome
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Talk to "hydrofarm" they are a main distributor in the states.
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Where have all the people gone my honey
Where have all the people gone today
There's no need for you to be worrying about all those people
You never see those people anyway
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Cheplatra
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Re: Mealworm Farmer wonderings/questions [Re: Nichrome]
#27389986 - 07/16/21 08:36 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Just wanted to put a bit of an ending on this, with a few updates, and what happened with my attempts.
I had a little success, and a disappointing failure. It kind of killed my enthusiasm, and haven't been back to it since. So I'll leave it at proof of concept.
I made some frass-cakes with holes for grain spawn
And got about enough pinks out of it to cover an egg, and give about the same amount away.
I did the roasting bag in the PC, inoculated with regular oyster, and it worked, but the bags are big and unwieldy. This bag is almost pure frass.
I put it in this setup, and cut two little crosses in it, when it was fully colonized. This setup could keep 90% humidity, until the controller stopped working after less than 2 weeks...(inkbird was too expensive for me) I didn't notice because the readout was "stuck". It probably dried out, because the grain jars in the picture certainly did. The grains separated from the glass.
I'll certainly bring up the export question to my employers, it might actually be profitable to ship across the Atlantic if it's $10 a pound. That sounds high to me. Considering how much we produce, on our relatively low corona capacity rn.
Bonus pic: These funky inky-boys grow in the barn where we keep the frass, but it might have more to do with the fact that it used to be a barn for pig production.
Thanks to everyone who read and commented. Hope y'all learned at least a little.
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 Pluviophile
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Re: Mealworm Farmer wonderings/questions [Re: Cheplatra]
#27390024 - 07/16/21 09:18 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Your bonus pic looks like Coprinus comatus.
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Pluviophile
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Re: Mealworm Farmer wonderings/questions [Re: Pluviophile]
#27390562 - 07/16/21 04:41 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Just saying...
If you are looking to grow good edibles with your waste, the Coprinus comatus. definitely likes it, and they taste good.
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