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OfflineRamJam
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27247355 - 03/10/21 09:35 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Hahaha I owe it all to the friendly fellows on here! And if you haven't got RRs video series I recommend it. It's really great to actually watch someone do all this stuff and well produced all in a great format in one place.


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: fahtster]
    #27247451 - 03/10/21 11:44 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Thanx Faht! I just read and went through the whole checklist on contaminated grains before  spawning. Omg! It makes me think that every jar I have right now is probably contaminated. First of all they do not shake apart that easily. However I guess I will find out in the long run. Since I skipped right over the PF tech from start to finish and went right to spawning those stupid little pucks to bulk by shredding them (and I’m glad I did) however a while back I posted these pictures of these BRF blocks I made. They have been sitting in humid conditions of perlite for a week now. I am not seeing any pinning  happening. He’s here I keep missing and Fanning as well and because I thought I was supposed to I’ll probably be told I’m not supposed to. Lol anyways I took some close-ups of them so you could see the type of fruiting chamber I made for them and if I am doing anything wrong. I didn’t build the whole giant SFG because I only have two blocks and I would be around to tend to them.


I put the agar dish in there just for size comparison


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Can’t we all just get along???
Progress not perfection.
Don’t judge others because their flaws are different than yours


Edited by ErnieErgot67 (03/10/21 11:45 PM)


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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27247920 - 03/11/21 09:38 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Offlinekarri0n
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: LtLurker]
    #27248267 - 03/11/21 01:07 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Hey Ernie!

Just sorta got a handle on this myself! The difference between a top layer and casing or pseudocasing are that a top layer is done at spawn, but with a casing and pseudocasing, it's done once the sub is colonized.

Top Layer: Bulk substrate(Typically CVG/CV/Coir, or Manure-Based Substrate) added as a top layer at the time of spawning to ensure no grains are exposed.

Casing: Using fully non-nutritious material, usually Peat + Verm set to higher PH with calcium additives, added to the top after the substrate is fully  colonized. The casing will not be colonized by the mycelium but the pins will come through.

Pseudo-casing: Adding bulk substrate(or just coir) to the top after full colonization. The pseudocasing substrate will often end up colonized or partially colonized, but its purpose is for improving surface conidtions in the same way as a casing. I don't think this would ever be done with poo based substrate, only Coir.


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: karri0n]
    #27248305 - 03/11/21 01:26 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

@ LT Lurker. Lol! What the heck does that mean???  Are you telling me I just need to sit there be patient, eat popcorn, and wait now or are you telling me that you’re sitting there luriking and watching?? If you don’t mind I’d really love some advice instead of a popcorn eating emoji! Lol. Though it is very comical  :smile: 


@Karrion...thanx a lot man. Ya I got the memo, several of them actually. And I also did some extensive reading on it once it was brought to my attention. I’m actually at Home Depot as we speak in my truck. I’m going inside to get some jiffy seed starter and some pH testing equipment.
The first tub I ended up using CVG because that’s all I had and it had been colonized for 10 days or better so I kind of panicked and put something down as a casing layer. However I thought I would get what I was told because I have another tub colonizing of APES and then one shoe box of each! PE and APES. on top of that I have 5 jars of PE fully colonized that I nocked up with a G2G transfer (grain to grain noobies) the masters are the spawn that were talking about needing the casing.

Thanx Felliz
Looking forward to hearing from you LT :wink:


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Can’t we all just get along???
Progress not perfection.
Don’t judge others because their flaws are different than yours


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OfflineFungi Rogers
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: karri0n]
    #27248359 - 03/11/21 02:03 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

karri0n said:
Hey Ernie!

Just sorta got a handle on this myself! The difference between a top layer and casing or pseudocasing are that a top layer is done at spawn, but with a casing and pseudocasing, it's done once the sub is colonized.

Top Layer: Bulk substrate(Typically CVG/CV/Coir, or Manure-Based Substrate) added as a top layer at the time of spawning to ensure no grains are exposed.

Casing: Using fully non-nutritious material, usually Peat + Verm set to higher PH with calcium additives, added to the top after the substrate is fully  colonized. The casing will not be colonized by the mycelium but the pins will come through.

Pseudo-casing: Adding bulk substrate(or just coir) to the top after full colonization. The pseudocasing substrate will often end up colonized or partially colonized, but its purpose is for improving surface conidtions in the same way as a casing. I don't think this would ever be done with poo based substrate, only Coir.




A lot of mix information on pseudo casings lol. Some refer to them as a top layer at spawn. Others refer to them as like bubble wrap or wax paper to make a micro climate. Idk :shrug:


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: Fungi Rogers]
    #27248611 - 03/11/21 05:11 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I understand it now. And I just picked up two bags of starter mix the case these other tubs I got going.
I got one 32qt of APES then I have two shoeboxes one PE, one APES. On top of that I have five jars of nocked up oats with PE That’s ready to be spawned. So I have a lot of casing to do. Lol. Very glad I found out right before all of this. I guess the mushroom Gods were looking out for me. God and Fahster!


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Can’t we all just get along???
Progress not perfection.
Don’t judge others because their flaws are different than yours


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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27248678 - 03/11/21 05:50 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Just checking in and letting you know i'm still watching the progress. Everytime i look someone's giving you advice already. You're doing fine.


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27248685 - 03/11/21 05:56 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Here’s what I have going on. I would love some direction on when “fully colonized”  might be. So I know when to case. I’m going to guess everybody’s perception and what that is probably varies a little bit. Then I’m not going to pretend that I know. I have a good guess but we see we’re guessing gets me! LOL. Anyway... The first two photos are of some APES spawned from BRF on 3/6. The second set of pics are of some Tasmanians also spawned from BRF but on 3/3. I’m going to post some pics of some green I would like some advice and opinion if you all would mind holding my hand a little longer. :smile:



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Can’t we all just get along???
Progress not perfection.
Don’t judge others because their flaws are different than yours


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: LtLurker]
    #27248710 - 03/11/21 06:17 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

LtLurker said:
Just checking in and letting you know i'm still watching the progress. Everytime i look someone's giving you advice already. You're doing fine.




Thank you. However I had posted a couple of pics of my block BRF cakes asking what’s up with them. They were birthed on 3/4. The humidity is up, they’re moist, I’ve got holes all the way around and nothing is happening!?!?  What am I doing wrong?
Here are some picks of mu Liz King jars. Nocked on 2/19 and shook a week ago. How do these look felliiiizzz???



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Can’t we all just get along???
Progress not perfection.
Don’t judge others because their flaws are different than yours


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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27248935 - 03/11/21 08:23 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

it's only been 7-8 days. They can take a little over 2 weeks to pin on average. nothing sounds off. Jars seem alright, couple different types of growth happening i think, nothing that i think is concerning.


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: LtLurker]
    #27249013 - 03/11/21 09:09 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Oh ok great thank you. I didn’t think the cakes took that long. That’s because I never went that route and read up on it thoroughbred from start to finish...only start and bulk spawning.

How about the tubs? Mostly the PE tub. I’m not sure at what point I’m supposed to case it at. Just when I thought I might have a clue! Lol


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Can’t we all just get along???
Progress not perfection.
Don’t judge others because their flaws are different than yours


Edited by ErnieErgot67 (03/11/21 09:15 PM)


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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27250007 - 03/12/21 02:50 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ErnieErgot67 said:
Quote:

fahtster said:
I’m going to really hammer it home here for Ern.. he means when the casing run (colonization of the casing layer) has ended and the sub switches to knotting and is “ready” to pin.  You’ll notice the myc at the sub surface start to “tighten” up (less fluffiness).. that’s when you stop patching.  That’s also when I stop mistings but that could vary depending on your climate.

Put it into fruiting conditions either right away or when you add that first casing layer or anytime between there

Faht




Nice Faht! That sums it up perfectly. Seeing I’ve always been taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question I have to ask!! Because if I’m not sure what a knot is exactly and I shouldn’t be doing this!! That’s the basics!  I have never actually been SHOWN what a” KNOT” is. I’ve always been guessing. So I’m going to guess that a knot is the small dime size rizomorphic patches (sometime fluffy) that pop thru???  That being said, the casing layer of CVG that I put down three days ago it’s starting to get some. As Ted said...that PE MYC will tear through that casing layer. I’m about to pasteurize my JIFFY as we speak. I’m going to use that to patch because I had to use CVG to case if you remember. I don’t know why when this whole conversation and you routing me towards Ted’s dead low offer you didn’t send me to everything Faht. I spent a lot of time on your page yesterday last night too we hours of the morning here on the East Coast and you gave a great write up on first casing and the purpose of it. It was kind of funny in the beginning because you were kind of telling all the other guys with their TC‘s do not jump down your throat so quickly but to just give it a try and hear you out.  Anyway after reading this I’ve come to the conclusion that you’re a humble man. You re-directing me towards another guy instead of showing me your own notes which I found extremely helpful because now I know the mechanics behind casing. PS I’m about to use your Tek for pastuizing...of course with my own spin. I was hoping you could tell me if these are ready for a casing layer. I have one 32 quart tub and then I have two shoeboxes. The 32 is APES. And the SBs are APES and PEs. Also after reading the purpose of casing on your page I’m curious if it would be beneficial to case everything!?!?



Going from left to right. #1 is the 32qt PE cased with the CVG that kicked this casing adventure off! Lol
#2 are the same 32qt tube with APES. Is that ready to be cased yet?
#4 are shoeboxes with PE and APES.

The initial tub of PE is the only one done with a grain. Popcorn. All the other tubs were done with BRF PF cakes shredded with a cheese grater. Only because I’m told they’re more resistant to contaminants and I do not have a flow hood.  I’m off to finish pasteurizing my Jiffy bags. I look forward to hearing from you Faht. You’re a good teacher and I trust your guidance. Anybody who’s been doing this as long as you have and still has the patience to teach somebody like me and all the other nuts on here has got to have a heart as big as The South American rainforest. I look forward to when I get to the point where I can give back on here. It will be my duty to pass on what has been u selfishly given to me. Thank you.




Hey Ernie.. I’m going to answer here instead of in teds thread.  I usually cas when the entire surface turns white..


And the same for the second half of the casing.. when the entire casing turns white.. full colonization with grains at a 1:2 ratio takes only about ~4-5 days.  But I’ve never done grated cakes of PE, so I’m not sure how fast that would happen.  Maybe ask in the Cakes to bulk thread if anyone has done PE with them and if they used teds strategy.  It takes a while though and patience is key... just look for full colonization before moving on to the next step and you should be fine.. all those tubs need more time imo. 

You can just add the jiffy on top of the top layer.. I’ve done that before no problem.. just because you used a top layer doesn’t mean all is lost casing wise.

Thanks for the kind words.. they keep me going :thumbup:

Faht


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: fahtster]
    #27250460 - 03/12/21 09:10 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Thanx Fahtster. I appreciate you answering on my thread anyway especially because I just told that asshole to go suck a dick pretty much. Without telling him to go suck one though. I can’t stand some of the fucking assholes on this platform. I mean why do a whole write up and when somebody asks a question you get told to go fucking Google it. It’s his original post was implied that we all knew what casing was. Well you can go read what I wrote to him. And like I said to you I don’t know why you didn’t send me to your page to begin with. I had no need to interact with that fucking egomaniac blockhead.
Getting back to the issue at hand so I can calm down.  I kind of feel like I getting mixed messages. You told me after the first casing to patch as the mycelium pokes through. Now you told me to replace the entire thing once it recolonize .... unless I’m misunderstanding you and if I am I am very sorry. Thank you for your patience and all your help. I appreciate it more than my words can express. I’m just trying not to blow these couple of tubs I got going. Which I pretty much would have if you didn’t step in and asked me if I was going to case!! Lol. Thanx again.

By the way what I did was I kind of experimented the casing  with the shoeboxes. That way if I mess anything up it’s not a small scale. Your Pasteurization tech work great! Thank you. I did up about 3/4 of one of those bags and just kept them in a Ziploc‘s so I have them as needed.

PS. I pretty much know it’s me. I have such a learning curve on here. I have a hard time learning via text instructions. I complicate things. I think maybe whoever I’m talking to  doesn’t understand what I’m asking. Then sometimes in their response I’d question what they mean or maybe they meant this or that. I don’t know. It’s just difficult for me because I don’t have the real or correct  way right here in front of me. Or someone to literally  point at and physically show me what they’re talking about. It’s all a guess. So I tried very hard to get a 100% confirmation what’s being explained. Thanks for your patience


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Can’t we all just get along???
Progress not perfection.
Don’t judge others because their flaws are different than yours


Edited by ErnieErgot67 (03/13/21 02:31 AM)


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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27250917 - 03/13/21 08:10 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

The stamets pdf is really long.. I wouldn’t want to type all that out either.. especially if I’m a busy person and feel like it would just be easier to have you google something and it’s literally the first thing that pops up when you search “Paul stamets casing pdf”

PE isn’t exactly a noob friendly variety but that’s not teds fault and vendors can’t exactly be like “this variety is more difficult to cultivate and does better with a casing” since they have to say it’s for microscopic viewing only.  Seems like you’re venting your frustrations onto Ted and all he did was answer your questions or direct you to where the answers were already written.  What’s the point in taking hours to write a tek up if ppl are going to ask for answers later that were already written in the first post?  It’s gets frustrating but I didn’t see anything in teds responses to warrant being called an egotistical asshole.. you said you didn’t understand what a casing was so he told you where to find a comprehensive explanation on it which happened to be on google.

Ppl (myself included) are going to be apprehensive about helping you out if they risk being called names like that.  We don’t get paid to do this.. we do this because we love growing and helping out others but you have to meet us halfway.. teds thread wasn’t to explain what a casing was or how it works.. it’s specific to PE.  There’s tons of other threads about casing basics.. all those back and forth questions about the basics muddy and derail his thread (that’s why I quoted your question above about when to case and brought it back over to your thread here).. he was actually being pretty nice and patient about it, considering.  Not to mention, he wasn’t even talking to you when he said google the pdf the second time, he was talking to dfwerydfhg and then you blew up at him.

I sent you the link because that’s where I learned it and I like giving credit where it’s due.  If I thought for a second it would turn into what it did over there, I definitely wouldn’t have sent you the link lol

It sounds like maybe you need a day away from the site to calm down.  Blowing up at a respected member because you’re frustrated isn’t going to help your situation.. trust me I’ve done it before.. it put me in a bad light and I regretted it.  It’s not a good look.

If you don’t know what something is, use the search function.. I searched “what is a knot” and found this on the first page https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26280383. The statement “no one showed me what a knot is” by you is pretty telling.. why would we have to show you what a knot is?  It’s not our job to spoon feed you info or to know what it is exactly you don’t know.


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: fahtster]
    #27251401 - 03/13/21 01:37 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I guess I owe him an apology. That’s what I mean about trying to learn on a platform. There were times throughout that where I wasn’t sure if he was talking to me or the other guy. And because I wasn’t sure about growth and appropriate times to patch in appropriate times to case I posted pictures of the tubs to show the progress and then he told me to Google it… So I thought and I got pissed off. Because when he suggested that I go read about the casing I spent the entire previous night doing just that and then like I said I went and I read yours. I read everything I could find including everybody’s posts in between. so because of my lack of confidence I second-guess everything I just wanted to be sure. Like I said it’s a real learning curve on here for me. And because I’ve done so much searching I’m here and read so many posts I’ve seen so many new guys get brushed off. And I get it. A lot of guys come out here and think they can just ask every little question all the way through without putting in the reading time and work. I know,  because that’s what I did when I first got here. But I don’t do that anymore. If you ever really knew how much time I spend on my own reading and not just here. I’ve got books and I scour the web etc... because I agree that it is not fair for people to come on here and just expect everything to be handed to them.
Not for nothing but that’s search engine is not the best. I have a typed in some very simple stuff on there and get nothing. Maybe I’m not doing it right maybe I’m not entering in the right data maybe I’m just a fucking block head. 
I have met some awesome awesome awesome people on here and have gotten a lot of help and direction. People like you and other guys with their TC. Then on the flipside sometimes I feel like people forget where they came from or they think just because they are a fast learner and things come easy to them that it should for everybody and that’s just isn’t so.
Well like I said, I owe him an apology. It’s unfortunate because on the previous page I think them for all the time you put into that post.
Thanx Fahtster


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Can’t we all just get along???
Progress not perfection.
Don’t judge others because their flaws are different than yours


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: fahtster]
    #27252234 - 03/14/21 08:37 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Hey Fahtster,
Thanx for setting me straight. I went over there and maid things right. Nobody deserved that. I felt like an ass.
Anyway, now I’m afraid to even ask a question!! But here it goes. There’s one thing I don’t get about casing. It’s the patching part... once you case it what’s the purpose of patching? I mean at some point I’m going to need mycelium growth on top of the sub/CVG. What I mean is if I keep patching it when it grows thru I will be patching it all the way till I get to the top of the tub!!! Do you understand what I mean? Not to state the obvious but I need mycelium growth on top in order for it to go all the way through its fruiting process which starts with mycelium  and knotting on top of the sub. So when do I stop covering it up. Yep now I feel stupid even asking this question. I feel like when I was in fucking algebra class and just couldn’t get it. I’m sorry dude. I’m missing part of this.

PS: as far as the Paul Stamets PDF. That went right over my head. I thought he was asking me to go under our heading mushroom cultivating on here. I would’ve never asked somebody to write that out! And I’ve never even said that.  I did go to google that and spent some time reading it last night which was very helpful by the way. :smile:


--------------------
Can’t we all just get along???
Progress not perfection.
Don’t judge others because their flaws are different than yours


Edited by ErnieErgot67 (03/14/21 08:42 AM)


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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27252280 - 03/14/21 09:34 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

It’s ok.. i was a bit confused with that part too.  When you patch, it’s very thinly.. like just enough to cover that myc.. like an 1/8” or even less.. you’ll still even be able to see bits of the white myc underneath kind of thing.  The idea is that you’re going to have parts of the casing that’s thicker or thinner than other parts... it’s just the way it happens.  We try to put the layer on as evenly as possible but there’s going to be parts that, either the myc grows faster there or the casing was a bit denser there etc.  so putting that really thin patching over the myc where that happens, makes it so that part is then covered with casing like the rest of the surface. 

Patching is like whack a mole.. when some myc pops up, you knock it back down with a little bit of casing. 

The myc has different states it goes through.. colonizing is where the myc spreads/grows fast and then it switches once it’s about to pin and slows down and it’ll start to “tighten” up.. this is really obvious with PE.  Let me see if I can find some pics to show you.. well it’s hard to see with pics but you’ll notice it in person.  It just gets less fuzzy.. you’ll get to know it.. usually it happens around the 3 week mark.  So the myc stops colonizing and you won’t have to worry about patching to the top of the tub haha.

You want the surface to look like this when it’s about to pin


Don’t worry too much about patching... it’s not a deal breaker if you miss some spots here or there.. it just helps knots to form.  Here’s a good example of what patching can do


See on the top how it looks like an even color throughout (this would be an example of “bare” like i told you yours looked like) compared to the bottom where there’s a mixture of partially colonized casing?  That top part wasn’t patched properly like the bottom was.. more pins formed where the sub was patched.  Here it is a little later (the picture is flipped in this one, so that unpatched area is on the bottom now)


I’ve done tubs where I didn’t bother with patching and kind of just let it go after I put the second casing layer on..


But it still worked out.. I just got bigger fruits but less of them


That’s why I say it’s not a huge deal if you miss patching some spots.. the sub will adjust to growing less pins but those pins tend to get bigger. 

Ted cases the second time after 20-30% of the first layer is colonized... i case the second time after the whole first layer is colonized.. the end result is the same.. I do it my way because I feel like the second layer will colonize more evenly if it all starts from a fully colonized first layer, but the end result is the same with both.  He might have reasons for doing that that I’m unaware of and benefits the tub more but I think the results are the same

Faht


Edited by fahtster (03/14/21 09:42 AM)


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Registered: 12/15/20
Posts: 355
Loc: North eastern USA
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27252822 - 03/14/21 05:36 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

This I s you :...The myc has different states it goes through.. colonizing is where the myc spreads/grows fast and then it switches once it’s about to pin and slows down and it’ll start to “tighten” up.. this is really obvious with PE.  Let me see if I can find some pics to show you.. well it’s hard to see with pics but you’ll notice it in person.  It just gets less fuzzy.. you’ll get to know it.. usually it happens around the 3 week mark.  So the myc stops colonizing and you won’t have to worry about patching to the top of the tub haha.

ME:
I this is the part that confuses me. I’m thinking that every time I cover it up (patch) more is going to pop through just like you said “whack a mole.” So I will be covering it up all the way until my tub is full to the top.



So what you’re telling me is it will stop coming through the casing, well all the way through and I will be able to see it just underneath sporadically but somewhat evenly and it will tighten up just below the surface of the casing and that’s when I will start seeing the nots. Do I have this right?

If I do not have this right I don’t care anymore because of your last comment. If I get mutants  and blobs and large fruit that’s OK I’m still learning and I need to chill out. You again very much for all your patience. But hopefully I am understanding what you’re telling. The only way I’m going to is when it happens Because I’ve never seen it before and I can only imagine and I don’t trust my imagination too well. Right or wrong it will be will be! Let’s look on the good side two weeks later it’s not contaminated!  YET!! Lol thank you


Edited by ErnieErgot67 (03/14/21 06:02 PM)


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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,284
Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27252838 - 03/14/21 05:49 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah you got it :thumbup:

Faht


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