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Offlinerickomalley238
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Registered: 08/09/20
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Last seen: 7 months, 7 days
Re: Questions about the psychdelic experience [Re: Outerbass]
    #27229645 - 02/27/21 06:42 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Outerbass said:
Quote:

InnerWisdom said:
There is no fucking psychedelic ideology. Sure societal and cultural boundaries are dissolved, but there is no ideology behind psychedelics. Perhaps the only one is that they are both excellent recreational and healing medicines!
How dumb is it to take one person's word about what the psychedelic experience is about and then proclaim that that is the ideology of psychedelic use somehow that everyone is influenced in?!
I'm outta here..



Psychedelic ideology is everywhere on the internet, from McKenna to Stamets to Joe Rogan to London Real, and countless podcasters/social media outlets.

It's being sold as the answer to everything and it appears to solve nothing other than PTSD or some mood disorders. That's all well and good but why can't we point out the rest of it is baloney?




It sounds to me like you might be attempting to convince yourself that psychedelics are "baloney" in order to ward off curiosity and FOMO.

Understand that whatever digging you are doing or conclusions you are arriving at are quite arbitrary.

Do them, or don't, but know what you don't know and don't attempt to know what you cannot without doing them.

Peace and good luck with your research.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,704
Re: Questions about the psychdelic experience [Re: rickomalley238]
    #27229766 - 02/27/21 08:10 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

the research is how annoyed he can make people.
has a little book and says anything.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineOuterbass
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Re: Questions about the psychdelic experience [Re: rickomalley238]
    #27229997 - 02/28/21 12:39 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

rickomalley238 said:

It sounds to me like you might be attempting to convince yourself that psychedelics are "baloney" in order to ward off curiosity and FOMO.

Understand that whatever digging you are doing or conclusions you are arriving at are quite arbitrary.

Do them, or don't, but know what you don't know and don't attempt to know what you cannot without doing them.

Peace and good luck with your research.



That's a lot of back flipping. It could be that since I have to repeat my self over and over again and nobody addresses the central question that I am not the one with the problem.

If psychedelia held the answers to all the problems, Rogan, Stamets, McKenna and most of you would have moved to South America by now and moved into the jungle. But you haven't. I have some guesses why.


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OfflineOuterbass
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Re: Questions about the psychdelic experience [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #27229999 - 02/28/21 12:42 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

LosTresOjos said:
Your are being stupid. You are asking questions about the experience. Or at least musing about it. You could answer all of your questions with a trip. Regardless, you are like a scared child in a corner.



I'm literally asking why if psychedelics are all they are cracked up to be why you guys haven't all moved to South America and moved in with a Shamanist tribe. McKenna has said over and over again that is the human ideal, but he turned his back on it and never lived there even though he could have.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: Questions about the psychdelic experience [Re: Outerbass]
    #27230067 - 02/28/21 03:13 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I drove a Honda for years, never stepped a foot in Japan.  It served it’s purpose.

You are struggling because you have no anything in your head to play ruler for what ideas and experiences you are seeing get tossed around here.  That would be my guess.  Since that is a sort of ā€˜blind spot’ for you, none of these answers will get your brain to click the ā€œokā€ of understanding.

So a person will either be humble in the understanding of their lack of understanding or, they won’t.  Tends to be how it works out..


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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Offlineanatomality
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I'm a teapot


Registered: 05/31/20
Posts: 1,354
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Re: Questions about the psychdelic experience [Re: Amanita86]
    #27230176 - 02/28/21 06:49 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Brb moving to Amazonian tribe because mushrooms.

Anything less than this is a corruption to my soul.


--------------------
ā€œThe strength of a person's spirit would then be measured by how much 'truth' he could tolerate, or more precisely, to what extent he needs to have it diluted, disguised, sweetened, muted, falsified.ā€


Edited by anatomality (02/28/21 06:50 AM)


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Offlinerickomalley238
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Re: Questions about the psychdelic experience [Re: Outerbass]
    #27230341 - 02/28/21 09:32 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Outerbass said:
Quote:

rickomalley238 said:

It sounds to me like you might be attempting to convince yourself that psychedelics are "baloney" in order to ward off curiosity and FOMO.

Understand that whatever digging you are doing or conclusions you are arriving at are quite arbitrary.

Do them, or don't, but know what you don't know and don't attempt to know what you cannot without doing them.

Peace and good luck with your research.



That's a lot of back flipping. It could be that since I have to repeat my self over and over again and nobody addresses the central question that I am not the one with the problem.

If psychedelia held the answers to all the problems, Rogan, Stamets, McKenna and most of you would have moved to South America by now and moved into the jungle. But you haven't. I have some guesses why.




I like mushrooms and indulge in them ~once a year for spiritual and healing purpose. I don't think they hold the answers to "all my problems," I think they help reframe my mindset to choose what "problems" I'm to give a fuck about and work on, and which I'm to not. We all have problems; it's part of being human.

As to your last question on why we haven't all moved to the South American jungle, I'm not sure this question even requires answering..


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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: Questions about the psychdelic experience [Re: Outerbass]
    #27230386 - 02/28/21 10:13 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Outerbass said:
Quote:

InnerWisdom said:
Just grow them shrooms op and see for yourself what the fuss is about, if you are interested of course, which it now seems from this last page at least you aren't



I said from the beginning I have no interest in taking psychedelics, I merely asked if the psychedelic ideology is what it is claimed, why haven't you all moved to south America. You guys haven't moved to South America because you don't believe what you are saying. If I thought the psychedelic experience is what McKenna says it is I would be in South America right now.




Well McKenna certainly believed it (I think personally that his conclusions took a leap from his facts) and he didn't stay in South America. Just because, for instance, you love physics doesn't mean you stay in physics class. You go and apply it in your life or work.

Besides that, you sure do sound interested. Maybe you worry that if it is real you will have to move to South America? lol. I am being facetious, but clearly you worry that you would be changed forever. You do not have to become or look like your tripping friends. And the people who devote themselves to a life that is entirely about what is beyond this life are, I believe, making a mistake. The lessons learned are for this life (and beyond). People who leave society after a spiritual experience may be escaping life or may be interpreting their insights too strictly.

Let me share an early formative experience and insight that developed over the course of three solo trips on blotter when I was 15 in 1976. I found that I could, in my mind, totally understand the perspective and point of view of anyone I could think of. This scared the hell out of me at 15, as this is when you are putting your life in gear and making decisions about your beliefs.  It resulted in the idea that if everyone is right, that Nothing Matters. I remember that the phrase running through my head was "If nothing matters, I should just sit in a corner and do nothing". This could have derailed my life. It was in the latter two trips of that series that I realized that I was Making It Matter that Nothing Matters. I decided that rather than make a point about showing hat the subjectivity in our experiences is such that its all nonsense,  that the point in life is to pick a game and play it as fully as I could. Have the experiences that life offers. My own "game" includes values like empathy, being kind, honest, etc. I graduated HS, went to college, got a doctorate, got a suburban home,  now have three grown and married children and a reasonably successful professional career and here I am, using psychedelics to look at the present and future of my life.

So what I think is that you are interested, but afraid of hitting a point of no return that will alienate you from your life and loved ones. I found quite the opposite. I do not need to go to South America. But you know, I do really want to see the Amazon rainforest someday. Maybe after this pandemic.

Namaste


Edited by Neurotech (02/28/21 10:18 AM)


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Questions about the psychdelic experience [Re: Outerbass]
    #27230456 - 02/28/21 11:10 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

psychedelics do not promote mindless followers. Grow some balls.


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Questions about the psychdelic experience [Re: Outerbass]
    #27236679 - 03/04/21 10:02 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

'm literally asking why if psychedelics are all they are cracked up to be why you guys haven't all moved to South America and moved in with a Shamanist tribe. McKenna has said over and over again that is the human ideal, but he turned his back on it and never lived there even though he could have.




McKenna is a very good speaker, but his ideas are quite "far out" and he's not some kind of official spokesman for everyone who takes psychedelics. Not everyone who takes psychedelics is heavily into shamanic culture.

Personally, I started tripping with a materialist, athiest mindset and that hasn't fundamentally changed. What it has changed is my receptivity to other ideas that conflict with this. I've never tried DMT, but mushrooms have delivered pretty much everything I could reasonably expect from a psychedelic experience - beautiful visual imagery, mystical experiences, incredible journeys into the mind that I would never have believed possible.

If you go through life feeling as though you are missing something, that you long for something magical beyond everyday experience, I think psychedelics provide this. A trip will leave you where you started and is not a magic bullet for solving problems in the real world, but it can inspire you to do things and think in new ways.

There is a certain culture that surrounds psychedelics, but how much you want to get into that more spiritual side of things is a personal choice. In a similar way, listening to heavy metal music isn't going to automatically cause you to grow your hair long, wear black, ride a Harley Davidson and get tattooed. The psychedelic experience at higher doses is extremely powerful and should not be underestimated - it's like having your reality dismantled and rebuilt - but it's up to you what you take away from it.

For a balanced look at why people are drawn to shamanic ceremonies in South America, a youtube channel I enjoy is Adeptus Psychonautica. Here is someone with an interest in traditional ayahuasca ceremonies and so on, who still lives and works in Europe and has a no-bullshit attitude which doesn't really fit the stereotype of the "trippy hippy." In this context the ceremonies are seen as a useful therapeutic tool, as "plant medicines" which are of personal benefit whether you are working 9-5 in a city job or living in a hut in Peru.

Personally I'm more into psychedelics as a form of expression - I like to write and listen to music when I'm tripping. You can take psychedelics (or not) in your own way for your own reasons without having to take too much notice of other people.


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Questions about the psychdelic experience [Re: Outerbass]
    #27236740 - 03/04/21 10:34 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

OP have you ever got any significance or lessons from your dreams.

Is that experience invalid because it was a dream. It did happen to you and you can remember so how is that different from all of life.

Psychs allow your brain to think differently which has its own inherent value. But at the higher levels it can cause mystical feelings and experiences. Just cause they were caused by the shroom doesn't mean mystical shit didn't just happen to you.

Individual perspective is important, even in science, just look at the theory of relativity.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.ā€
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Questions about the psychdelic experience [Re: The Mycologist]
    #27236749 - 03/04/21 10:36 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Psychs are pretty individual if you ask me. The tribe stuff is antiquated imho.

The mind is like a pool of water, in order to learn about its properties you have to perturb it.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.ā€
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: Questions about the psychdelic experience [Re: The Mycologist]
    #27238692 - 03/05/21 12:42 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Why we don't all go to South America? Why should we? You have probably been on a vacation somewhere you loved. Why didn't you stay? People get benefit from psychotherapy - why don't they stay there all week?

You came back from vacation refreshed and ready to get back to your life. You practice what you learn in therapy the other 167 hours a week.

You are still wondering? Why do you think all these people trip? Not the recreational trippers, rather the spiritual/problem-solving ones? What is your belief? That all are deluded?

As others have said here, you can't understand without the experience. Ever try explaining what sex feels like to someone who never had an orgasm? Can you explain what a color looks like to someone born blind?


Edited by Neurotech (03/05/21 12:45 PM)


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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: Questions about the psychdelic experience [Re: Neurotech]
    #27238709 - 03/05/21 12:52 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I think you are afraid that if you trip, it will indeed change you permanently and that you would want to move to the jungle. You are afraid to experience the unknown. I suspect you are someone who really stands by their beliefs and fear that you would leave your normal life and have to become an ascetic or something. In my opinion, shrooms could help you sort that out (unless you resist the trip - that can go badly, or uselessly).  You have to trust (and this seems an issue perhaps) that the shrooms (rather you on shrooms) will assess what you are ready for, and can help you see how to integrate the life you care about with new spiritual awareness and insights. On more intense trips this resistance and fear is the biggest challenge for most of us. When you surrender to the experience, all anxiety goes away and the lessons and fun begin. You have nothing to fear but fear itself is true.


Edited by Neurotech (03/05/21 12:53 PM)


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Questions about the psychdelic experience [Re: Neurotech]
    #27242831 - 03/08/21 07:51 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Because I bring South America to my living room.

I dont think there is that much difference between us "recreational" trippers and shamanic ones, just a different title.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.ā€
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: Questions about the psychdelic experience [Re: The Mycologist]
    #27242961 - 03/08/21 09:33 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

> "I dont think there is that much difference between us "recreational" trippers and shamanic ones, just a different title."

I am surprised. I have known people who refer to tripping as "getting F'd up", and who tend to combine with less than entheogenic substances.


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Questions about the psychdelic experience [Re: Neurotech]
    #27243244 - 03/08/21 12:28 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

They will get a hard lesson one day.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.ā€
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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Offlinerickomalley238
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Re: Questions about the psychdelic experience [Re: The Mycologist] * 1
    #27243918 - 03/08/21 07:30 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The Mycologist said:
They will get a hard lesson one day.




Yup. Do mushrooms without listening to your intuition will result in a pricey, pricey lesson; oftentimes one which you could not have prior fathomed to be near as difficult, life changing, and soul-forging as it is.


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