|
Zwinst
Stranger


Registered: 02/27/21
Posts: 126
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 3 days, 10 hours
|
stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... 1
#27229513 - 02/27/21 05:07 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Hi, i am looking for some advice regarding stabilising a leucistic strain of cubensis mushroom...
It is a Golden Teacher variety that is very, very strong. It has been selected for strength over dozens and dozens of generations and by now it yields >2% consistantly (the test used will show up on the market soon, i hope). Against better jugdement i still use 2-propanol for cleaning, so mutants showing up is not a surprise:
I found myself with a leucistic fruiting body, that produced almost no spores at all. But the few it produced where coloured ones. (And they were fertile. Waiting for them to finish colonising their glasses as we speak.)



I cloned the "white one" and found, that the clones produce colourless and somewhat warped and deformed spores. I looked at spores of 6 or so specimen and they are all the same - very few, deformed to different extents and all colourless.



Has anyone seen something like that before? I am determined to stabilise it. Whatever it is. Even if it means cloning it forever until it yields something fertile.
Any suggestions other than keeping on doing what i do?
Edited by Zwinst (06/14/21 05:24 AM)
|
nektar61
Into SporePlay



Registered: 07/04/20
Posts: 3,241
Loc: Cube Satellite
Last seen: 7 days, 16 hours
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: Zwinst]
#27229536 - 02/27/21 05:30 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Read this thread about how Pastywhyte stabilized the Rustywhite variety. (a cross of two varieties).
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20228521/fpart/1/vc/1
I've never done it, but am reading that. Is less cloning and more just picking the one from each batch with the trait you want, taking spore prints from that, then doing that again and again until stable. Was 7 generations, but also had some back crossing and cloning.
It's a great read. I'm reading the whole thread, all comments, is taking days. But you could probably just search the posts by Pasty and get most of it.
Albinos don't always make great spore prints, you may have to take swabs.
I've never done all this, but that's the thread to read to get started.
Here's another fun thread about crossing strains and stabilizing, but stabilizing from one mutation of a single strain could be done with the same method as here and Pasty's: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26254384
good luck.
-------------------- -NEW? Start here.
Edited by nektar61 (02/27/21 05:49 PM)
|
Zwinst
Stranger


Registered: 02/27/21
Posts: 126
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 3 days, 10 hours
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: nektar61]
#27229596 - 02/27/21 06:12 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
nektar61 said: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20228521/fpart/1/vc/1
Gives me "To view this forum you need to be registered for 14 days and make 10 posts. You have 9 posts and 14 days left to go."
See you in two weeks i guess..
Is there a designated "new forum member" area to deal with this? I haven´t found anything like it before i posted my first thing. I should probably look further into it...
And harass the authorities after that.
|
Smartattack
C'mon man



Registered: 12/21/18
Posts: 3,774
Loc: A thought
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: Zwinst] 1
#27229619 - 02/27/21 06:27 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Just go to off topic and get your posts out of the way. Otherwise you still got to wait I guess. Cool shrooms BTW
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
|
nektar61
Into SporePlay



Registered: 07/04/20
Posts: 3,241
Loc: Cube Satellite
Last seen: 7 days, 16 hours
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: Zwinst]
#27229802 - 02/27/21 08:25 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Zwinst said:
Quote:
nektar61 said: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20228521/fpart/1/vc/1
Gives me "To view this forum you need to be registered for 14 days and make 10 posts. You have 9 posts and 14 days left to go."
See you in two weeks i guess..
Is there a designated "new forum member" area to deal with this? I haven´t found anything like it before i posted my first thing. I should probably look further into it...
And harass the authorities after that.
Well, while you wait two weeks, print the cap or caps that have the trait you want, and put the spores to agar in your SAB. In two or three weeks you'll have some mycelium ready to put to grain. You'll have to do that anyway, so do that while you wait. And make a few more posts.
There are other threads on here you probably can read now. Check out my sig line to learn to use the advanced search and search "stabilizing" and "stabilising" and look for threads less than 5 years old.
The user Roger Rabbit, and the user Workman have threads about how they made varieties ("strains"). They started from different techniques, but still had to be stabilized.
I'm surprised yours isn't yet stabilized, you've done dozens of generations of it? Were you starting each new generation from a print from the one that had the most of the trait you want? If so, wouldn't it be stable.
-------------------- -NEW? Start here.
|
bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: nektar61] 2
#27229850 - 02/27/21 08:54 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Golden teacher is pretty well known to throw out leustic fruits from time to time. There's already a few stable varieties out there. Its all done by selection.
|
nektar61
Into SporePlay



Registered: 07/04/20
Posts: 3,241
Loc: Cube Satellite
Last seen: 7 days, 16 hours
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: Zwinst]
#27229967 - 02/27/21 11:51 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Zwinst said: Hi, i am looking for some advice regarding stabilising a leucistic strain of cubensis mushroom......
Here's a short thread with some answers by some people who know a lot about growing: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27181066/page/
-------------------- -NEW? Start here.
|
Zwinst
Stranger


Registered: 02/27/21
Posts: 126
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 3 days, 10 hours
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: nektar61]
#27346472 - 06/13/21 07:39 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Alright, it is time for a little update.
The white spores are in fact viable!
I am already in the third Generation and this tendency to not produce spores or just a few is getting old... But i wont give up just yet.
The first couple F2 from white spores (F1 was from dark spores off of the original F0 mutant):

Some F1 from white spores (from F0 clones that yielded enough white spores) that seem to not produce spores at all:

This whole process may take longer than originally anticipated...
|
Zwinst
Stranger


Registered: 02/27/21
Posts: 126
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 3 days, 10 hours
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: Zwinst]
#27347543 - 06/14/21 05:13 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
It is weird that they do produce spores but don´t drop them. Even waiting for days doesn´t increase the amount. At least the spores look mostly normal now.

|
the_chosen_one
On the Darkslide


Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 2,882
Loc: 1984
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: Zwinst]
#27355387 - 06/19/21 03:51 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Zwinst said:
I cloned the "white one" and found, that the clones produce colourless and somewhat warped and deformed spores. I looked at spores of 6 or so specimen and they are all the same - very few, deformed to different extents and all colourless.
Has anyone seen something like that before?
Plenty. White/clear spores are typically albinism. They normally won't drop well or produce in high numbers. Pressing or swabbing is usually the best way to collect them. They should initially produce only albinos, but the trait may recede over generations. Leucistic spores tend to be pigmented with various shades. Some may appear white/clear, but scope lighting can play tricks. Leucistic fruits normally won't have the troubles sporulating like true albinos. I have to say your fruits look and are described more like Chimeras. Something Workman and I both encountered working with Falbino (PFA x F+). Chimeras don't exactly follow the rules.. They produce albino spores on some gills and pigmented on others.

There's two in this batch. The one sitting on top of th albino and the little one just to the lower right of that.
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
|
Zwinst
Stranger


Registered: 02/27/21
Posts: 126
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 3 days, 10 hours
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: the_chosen_one]
#27355462 - 06/19/21 04:48 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
I had some patchy gills in both F0 clones and F1 that i grow now. Didnt bother to look for white spores though. I shall in the future. One of my batches actually comes from a patchy F0-clone print and it does produce both "colours" of mushroom but each "colour" either sticks to being coloured or being leucistic with albino spores.
Very valuable information! Thank you!
HAHA! I had one tiny little joke of a mushroom actually drop something now! Never imagined the small ones would... I am way more fond of the bigger ones. And it is a leucistic one from this batch that came from the patchy gilled one.
This may actually go somewhere. 
I should clone some more specimen though. This heat (34°C/93F) is seriously hurting all of my cultures... They are just not used to it and start aborting almost complete fruiting bodies.
Edited by Zwinst (06/19/21 04:58 PM)
|
Zwinst
Stranger


Registered: 02/27/21
Posts: 126
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 3 days, 10 hours
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: Zwinst]
#27490561 - 10/03/21 02:38 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Alright, f4 is looking promising.

Edited by Zwinst (10/03/21 02:49 AM)
|
fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,266
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: the_chosen_one]
#27490650 - 10/03/21 05:51 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
the_chosen_one said:
Quote:
Zwinst said:
I cloned the "white one" and found, that the clones produce colourless and somewhat warped and deformed spores. I looked at spores of 6 or so specimen and they are all the same - very few, deformed to different extents and all colourless.
Has anyone seen something like that before?
Plenty. White/clear spores are typically albinism. They normally won't drop well or produce in high numbers. Pressing or swabbing is usually the best way to collect them. They should initially produce only albinos, but the trait may recede over generations. Leucistic spores tend to be pigmented with various shades. Some may appear white/clear, but scope lighting can play tricks. Leucistic fruits normally won't have the troubles sporulating like true albinos. I have to say your fruits look and are described more like Chimeras. Something Workman and I both encountered working with Falbino (PFA x F+). Chimeras don't exactly follow the rules.. They produce albino spores on some gills and pigmented on others.

There's two in this batch. The one sitting on top of th albino and the little one just to the lower right of that.

I had this happen yesterday with a PE/apeu cross F2 grow

Cool thread! 
Faht
|
the_chosen_one
On the Darkslide


Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 2,882
Loc: 1984
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: fahtster]
#27490748 - 10/03/21 08:14 AM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Damn Big Guy. That's sweet!
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
|
Zwinst
Stranger


Registered: 02/27/21
Posts: 126
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 3 days, 10 hours
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: fahtster]
#27491137 - 10/03/21 02:31 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
fahtster said:
I had this happen yesterday with a PE/apeu cross F2 grow

Cool thread! 
Faht
Gorgeous mushrooms! I wouldn´t know which one to clone first in this tub.
What is apeu? AlbinoPenisEnvyUncut perhaps? I am still not familiar with all the strains.
|
fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,266
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: Zwinst]
#27491158 - 10/03/21 02:53 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Thanks! I’m setting up to clone one of the fruits producing both spores
And you got it albino peu
Faht
|
Zwinst
Stranger


Registered: 02/27/21
Posts: 126
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 3 days, 10 hours
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: fahtster]
#27491170 - 10/03/21 03:03 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Don´t clone just one of them! Pick at least a few.
If you don´t have the capacity to work on them, at least store them until you do or decide to share. They are indeed very nice looking.
Btw i should give this whole tub thing a try. Seems to work nicely for most people. I feel i got stuck with to the old case in a tub with water on the bottom tek. Time to mix it up.
|
fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,266
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: Zwinst]
#27491195 - 10/03/21 03:29 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I’m taking a bunch of swabs and I still don’t know how much I want to mess around with apeu.. it’s already a PE variant and does killer all by itself
Apeu

This was the PE/apeu f1… wish I had cloned one of those (cloning is kind of a PITA for me)

I’ve got a bunch of crossing projects going and this one is low on the priority list but I’ll do work on it here and there
Apeu does have Lucy traits with clear spores if you want to work with an already stable variety like that (ik the fun is doing it yourself)
Quote:
Quirkmeister92 said:
   APEU
Faht
|
Zwinst
Stranger


Registered: 02/27/21
Posts: 126
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 3 days, 10 hours
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: fahtster]
#27491226 - 10/03/21 04:03 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Do a bunch of swabs!
If i have learned anything, it is not to discard anything prematurely. You never know.. Genetics saved is better than genetics lost.
I have to admit at some point i was tempted to just order some albinos or a leucistic variety, but i always wanted to do it myself. Now i finally am.
And these Golden Teacher are already strong as shit and there is no point in further developing them in that direction. So they are the perfect specimen for my purposes and they are what i have. A match made in heaven
Edited by Zwinst (10/03/21 04:04 PM)
|
fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,266
|
Re: stabilising leucistic mutant with albino(?) spores... [Re: Zwinst]
#27491257 - 10/03/21 04:39 PM (2 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Oh I get it.. way more fun doing it yourself 
Faht
|
|