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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Neurotech]
    #27160527 - 01/20/21 11:24 PM (3 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Neurotech said:
Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:

Neurotech said:
Why should God value humans above his other creations? We are all one. I am that worm as he is me. There can be no experience of good without bad. Without hunger, there is no satiation. Without pain, we would be careless with our bodies. Existence depends on duality. Life depends on death.




Your sentiment is pure and correct, but you're conflating opposites with corollaries here, my friend. This is extremely common and not a sleight on you at all. That doesn't diminish the purity of your intention and understanding of unity at the highest levels, just the rational
end betrays all the good of what you're actually saying here.




I really want to understand what you are saying but I don’t really. Conflating opposites? You mean the dualities inherent in our existence like life and death happiness and sadness etc.? And saying that they are not opposites but rather corollaries? Very interesting ideas but I am not sure what you mean. Could you elaborate? I see duality as the whole reason we are here in the first place. Frankly I understood what you agreed with of course but I don’t understand what you disagree with.




:pm: sent, my friend! We won't derail this thread, I'll gladly explain precisely what I'm talking about.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 2
    #27161810 - 01/21/21 03:49 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

In a thread with a title imploring you to answer as best as you can, it would seem more is better.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: skOsH]
    #27172386 - 01/27/21 08:09 AM (3 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

skOsH said:
I do believe in God, but the belief of what God is to me, is everything. God, to me, is the entire universe and all its other iterations and machinations. It's just the infinite energy that keeps us humans alive for a bit

This pantheistic god I believe in, does not care about anything
It just is, and is carrying out a plan that is billions of years in the making

When you die, you become some weird energy that just oscillates forever, acting as a cog or gear to make up a small part of a growing universe

Anything discovered, doesn't disturb my belief in god because I think it is indifferent energy that just is. It is the dancing fabric of spacetime when viewed on a psychedelic. it's just there

Probably just part of an experiment or randomly generated

TL;DR Idon't believe in a divine plan.




How does Love fit in?


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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #27172396 - 01/27/21 08:14 AM (3 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Gypsy Boy said:
Haggard sounds pissed but hes quite incorrect.

We were once in the garden

Then we left the garden

And we will not return until we master good and evil, that was the point we left in the first place.




We were kicked out of the garden because we ate of the tree of knowledge. As a result, we became aware of the concepts of good and evil, obtained language, experienced shame, all of which the rest of the animals did not. We were "In the Garden" or at peace when we lived in the moment as the animals do, without judging good vs evil. So I wonder whether we need to master good vs evil or whether we need to see that it is that duality that creates suffering.


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OfflineGypsy Boy
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Neurotech]
    #27172568 - 01/27/21 09:30 AM (3 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

we became aware of the concepts of good and evil




Jesus Christ. We became aware?? By becoming aware we dont just learn all that the universe has to offer.

By eating fruit we started a catalyst of creation - we are children of Israel not physically but SPIRITUALLY.

And until we LEARN the Tree of Life (by eating from tree of know how), we will not experience the rapture and return to godliness.

Dont argue with me about such matters i know far more about this than you :gooby:


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OfflineGypsy Boy
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #27172575 - 01/27/21 09:34 AM (3 years, 19 days ago)

Darn. How many spirituality books did i read in my time....... :eek:


Ohh by the way , to give u an idea, in Modern Mgick dude says this angel(forget his name) Holds a flaming sword in the shape of tree of life at the gates of the garden of eden/heaven. :gethigh:

Use your grey matter and meditate on what i just said.


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OfflineGypsy Boy
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #27172577 - 01/27/21 09:35 AM (3 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

I wonder whether we need to master good vs evil




Ahhhhhhh , now u speaking :crazy2:


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OfflineFierce Deity
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #27188599 - 02/05/21 06:54 PM (3 years, 10 days ago)

Words are limited.  They start and stop in the mind, and therefore are finite.

Words cannot be used to describe "something" (not really something) which is infinite (AKA not finite).  God is not a "thing" or a "person" because things and persons are experiences which start and stop; therefore, they are finite.  God is not finite.

IF God is "not finite" AKA infinite, God must not start and stop.

They say God is infinite (AKA doesn't start and stop AKA omnipresent), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipotent (all-powerful AKA "all-doing").

What, in your experience, has never appeared or disappeared?  That, my friend, is truly infinite.

What, in your experience, is knowing YOUR experience?  Is that which is knowing YOUR experience one or two?  How many consciousnesses do you experience?  Have you ever truly experienced more than one consciousness beyond conceptualizing other consciousnesses?

What, in your experience, is doing YOUR experience?  What is your experience ON?  When we look for life beyond experience, we don't find it.  What is creating your experience right here and now?  What is YOUR LIFE within and beyond experience?

Questions can be more telling than answers when it comes to experiencing God.  God is experience, and God is also not experience.  God is not AN experience.  If God is truly infinite, then there is no where you can look where you don't see God.  God is like the ocean, and we like currents in the ocean.  Thoughts about God are like currents within currents of the ocean.

God is the capacity to be CONSCIOUS and to BE (essentially the same).  Are you CONSCIOUS?  ARE you (do you exist)?  That funny feeling you get when you read this is the twinkling of an inkling of God.  Our literal minds will never grasp God.  If God, that which is omnipresent, IS, then God is right HERE right NOW.  HERE and NOW, the place where experience, where life happens, IS.  And IF God, that which is omniscient, IS, then God is knowing THIS experience HERE and NOW which "you" are having.  IF God, that which is omnipotent (all-doing) IS, God must be doing exactly what YOU'RE doing.  If either of this is false, then there is no God.  But obviously, you're conscious, you're present, and you're doing what you're doing.

"I knew my Lord through my Lord."


--------------------

Ah, the mystery.
When sight and seen are complete,
who looks through these eyes?

All words are lies.
This statement, too, is false.



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OfflineFierce Deity
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Fierce Deity]
    #27188603 - 02/05/21 06:54 PM (3 years, 10 days ago)

"All words are lies.  This statement, too is false."

Quote:

Fierce Deity said:
Words are limited.  They start and stop in the mind, and therefore are finite.

Words cannot be used to describe "something" (not really something) which is infinite (AKA not finite).  God is not a "thing" or a "person" because things and persons are experiences which start and stop; therefore, they are finite.  God is not finite.

IF God is "not finite" AKA infinite, God must not start and stop.

They say God is infinite (AKA doesn't start and stop AKA omnipresent), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipotent (all-powerful AKA "all-doing").

What, in your experience, has never appeared or disappeared?  That, my friend, is truly infinite.

What, in your experience, is knowing YOUR experience?  Is that which is knowing YOUR experience one or two?  How many consciousnesses do you experience?  Have you ever truly experienced more than one consciousness beyond conceptualizing other consciousnesses?

What, in your experience, is doing YOUR experience?  What is your experience ON?  When we look for life beyond experience, we don't find it.  What is creating your experience right here and now?  What is YOUR LIFE within and beyond experience?

Questions can be more telling than answers when it comes to experiencing God.  God is experience, and God is also not experience.  God is not AN experience.  If God is truly infinite, then there is no where you can look where you don't see God.  God is like the ocean, and we like currents in the ocean.  Thoughts about God are like currents within currents of the ocean.

God is the capacity to be CONSCIOUS and to BE (essentially the same).  Are you CONSCIOUS?  ARE you (do you exist)?  That funny feeling you get when you read this is the twinkling of an inkling of God.  Our literal minds will never grasp God.  If God, that which is omnipresent, IS, then God is right HERE right NOW.  HERE and NOW, the place where experience, where life happens, IS.  And IF God, that which is omniscient, IS, then God is knowing THIS experience HERE and NOW which "you" are having.  IF God, that which is omnipotent (all-doing) IS, God must be doing exactly what YOU'RE doing.  If either of this is false, then there is no God.  But obviously, you're conscious, you're present, and you're doing what you're doing.

"I knew my Lord through my Lord."




--------------------

Ah, the mystery.
When sight and seen are complete,
who looks through these eyes?

All words are lies.
This statement, too, is false.



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Offlinedarkcreature
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Asante]
    #27222145 - 02/23/21 01:30 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

There are some clues in modern physics.

There could be up to 10^500 possible worlds but most are empty. Most of them just fall apart or collapse back to singularity.

Of the ones that dont collapse, most are empty of life and conscious beings. it requires a very fine tuning of the parameters to create a world where evolution can give rise to something like humans.

So I think "God" had really no choice when making a "physical" world i.e. one consistent and governed by rules and causality and shit.

But I dont really think "God" created this world. I think any world that can exist, exists since it's pure mathematics. Looking at quantum mechanics, you can see that there isnt anything really "solid" or "real" in our worlds, so called particles are not particles at all but probabilities and bits of information.

So this big question goes away when you realize there wasnt a conscious intention to create this world.


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OfflineGypsy Boy
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: darkcreature]
    #27222171 - 02/23/21 01:44 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Desolate worlds???


Hahaha

Universe with all its galaxies is like giant penis spewing life in all direction :lol:


--------------------





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InvisibleAsante
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Gypsy Boy]
    #27223263 - 02/24/21 03:02 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

God IS every one of those 10500 universes and their 10100000 aspects.

There is nothing but that.

Outside of the Multiverse is true Nothing, which is entirely without anything, including size. Whats outside of the Multiiverse is infinitely thinner than a razorblade. The totality of whats around the Multiverse amounts to infinitely less than a grain of sand.

True and complete NOTHING.

We are It.

One Force, One Being,

You in Your 10100000 Guises


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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InvisibleFiery
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Asante]
    #27223267 - 02/24/21 03:11 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:


Outside of the Multiverse is true Nothing,
True and complete NOTHING.

We are It.

One Force, One Being,







It's been building for ages and now I just feel My Markos

He is trapped beneath the soul underground- and is waiting


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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: darkcreature] * 1
    #27223505 - 02/24/21 08:00 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

darkcreature said:
There are some clues in modern physics.

There could be up to 10^500 possible worlds but most are empty. Most of them just fall apart or collapse back to singularity.

Of the ones that dont collapse, most are empty of life and conscious beings. it requires a very fine tuning of the parameters to create a world where evolution can give rise to something like humans.

So I think "God" had really no choice when making a "physical" world i.e. one consistent and governed by rules and causality and shit.

But I dont really think "God" created this world. I think any world that can exist, exists since it's pure mathematics. Looking at quantum mechanics, you can see that there isnt anything really "solid" or "real" in our worlds, so called particles are not particles at all but probabilities and bits of information.

So this big question goes away when you realize there wasnt a conscious intention to create this world.




Just because mathematics can describe the universe doesn't mean there was no conscious intention to create the world. Does it? Does mathematics explain the origin of consciousness? If consciousness is the end product of a certain set of environmental variables, then it should always exist when those variables are lined up. If that's the case, then why is that process a component of the universe?


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Neurotech]
    #27223733 - 02/24/21 10:40 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Neurotech said:
Quote:

darkcreature said:
There are some clues in modern physics.

There could be up to 10^500 possible worlds but most are empty. Most of them just fall apart or collapse back to singularity.

Of the ones that dont collapse, most are empty of life and conscious beings. it requires a very fine tuning of the parameters to create a world where evolution can give rise to something like humans.

So I think "God" had really no choice when making a "physical" world i.e. one consistent and governed by rules and causality and shit.

But I dont really think "God" created this world. I think any world that can exist, exists since it's pure mathematics. Looking at quantum mechanics, you can see that there isnt anything really "solid" or "real" in our worlds, so called particles are not particles at all but probabilities and bits of information.

So this big question goes away when you realize there wasnt a conscious intention to create this world.




Just because mathematics can describe the universe doesn't mean there was no conscious intention to create the world. Does it? Does mathematics explain the origin of consciousness? If consciousness is the end product of a certain set of environmental variables, then it should always exist when those variables are lined up. If that's the case, then why is that process a component of the universe?




Yes! You get it!


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: blessed]
    #27224260 - 02/24/21 03:32 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

blessed said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Warning: a less pleasant side of Creation:



Quote:

Cordylobia anthropophaga, the mango fly, tumbu fly, tumba fly, putzi fly, or skin maggot fly, is a species of blow-fly common in East and Central Africa. It is a parasite of large mammals (including humans) during its larval stage.[1] C. anthropophaga has been endemic in the subtropics of Africa for more than 135 years and is a common cause of myiasis in humans in the region.[2]

Its specific epithet anthropophaga derives from the Greek word anthropophagos, "human eater".

    The mode of infection by the Cayor Worm. Doctors Rodhain and Bequaert conclude, from their observations in the Congo Free State, that Cordylobia anthropophaga lays its eggs on the ground. The larvae, known generally as Cayor Worms, crawl over the soil until they come in contact with a mammal, penetrate the skin and lie in the subcutaneous tissue, causing the formation of tumors. On reaching full growth, the larvae leave the host, fall to the ground, bury themselves and then pupate. This fly is said to be the most common cause of human or animal myiasis in tropical Africa, from Senegal to Natal. In the region of Lower Katanga where these investigations were made, dogs appeared to be the principal hosts, although Cordylobia larvae were found also in guinea-pigs, a monkey, and two humans. The larvae are always localized on those parts of the hosts which come in immediate contact with the soil."

        — Ann. Soc. Entom. de Belgique, Iv, pp. 192–197, 1911) summary translation in Entomological News. 1911 Vol. xxii:467.





Why?

Why does God allow for this to exist?

How do mango worms fit into your understanding of the Divine Universe?

Why do they not inhabit mangoes, or at least, the dead?

Why do they not clean out existing wounds but create new ones, to feast?

Please explain it as you see it.

Opinions differ so, lets hear yours.


We have God :angel: and we have the Mango Fly.


Why?




Because we live in a fallen/corrupt# world/universe (# = not like bad cops, but like a corrupted computer file)

Most people will know what the Bible says about the garden of eden and why man was thrown out.  I'd say that most pain/suffering/mango fly's/what's wrong in this life is because of the result of sin and it's effect on life.  This sin (and it's effect) is like a virus in a computer or cancer in a human body.  Now as for God and what he is or isn't capable of,  I believe that God is all powerful and that as the Bible says, that he has made absolutely EVERYTHING.  Nothing that exists, be it visible/invisible or physical/spiritual exists unless God made/created it.  I believe that He also knows the beginning from the end and that he can interact with his creation (but for the most part he doesn't, for a reason).

The main reason why he doesn't just jump in and squash these mango flys/worms is because, as I said before, we live in a fallen world (and we are (for now) separated from God too).  Like it or not?, God is working through this fallen world towards an end goal (the restoration of all things which includes a new heaven and a earth), and as most of you know the Bible says that a day is coming where pain and suffering will end too.

Remember the Prodigal son?

The father let the son leave.  I think in the same way, that God has allowed man to leave and go on without him, and out of respect for their choice/heart's desire (apple incident), he leaves mankind alone (to a degree/for the most part).

Another thing, any of you that play computer games will know that you generally get to set the difficulty level.  Well with life it just is, sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's unbelievably hard, but again, I believe it's because of sin/fallen world/ and the loss of what we had (as humans) in the perfect garden.  We are truly cursed and in the cold now!!

Also, I wonder if this problem could be solved by mankind?  Surly, if the world got together to rid the world of these mango fly's we probably could, but NO, mankind is too busy making money and getting fat from over indulgence, treating each other like utter crap and killing each other!!

Lastly, as painful as this life may be,  I believe that when all is said and done, that God will pull us(*) close and we will finally feel the embrace of his hug.  Had God created us (with out all this crap) then we truly wouldn't know/experience God's love.  Just like you don't truly know warmth until you come out of the cold :thumbup:


(*) Those that receive the truth (spiritual food).

Btw, if you disagree with my views then that's totally cool :thumbup:,  Im just saying what I believe.  I don't want to (and won't) get into all sorts of arguments that ultimately achieve nothing.




Get rid of the Mango fly? Why? We live in a perfect universe that has evolved to maintain life. What makes your existence more important than that of a mango fly? Because its gross? because it relies on prey? How many organisms do we kill each day simply by walking around? I probably wiped out entire families in my backyard today. How many organisms do we kill simply by washing? Not to mention eating. Why are you unhappy with the world God has given us? You think we can do better than God? Fix it? What we acquired in the garden was the knowledge of good and evil, something the rest of the animal kingdom does not have. This resulted in shame and other distinctly human qualities. And it is these qualities that make us more like the image of God. Being banned from the garden to a life that involves pain and work is symbolic of how our knowledge of language, and our ability to think about the past and the future has forced us out of the perfectly balanced garden of nature that we had and that the animals still do. Knowledge and language took us out of the moment, where other animals always are. They, without wondering and knowing are simply doing, being based on the moment. Those flies are still in the garden. Don't think about kicking them out. Just keep yourself safe as you can.

Namaste


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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Neurotech]
    #27225291 - 02/25/21 05:39 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Life is an illusion. This is all just a game. All of the laws of physics and chemistry have already been laid out and this is really just what happens when all of the parameters have been laid out and everything just happens.

All living creatures exploit their surroundings in order to survive. Just look at the way humans exploit the planet. I mean we're practically doing the same thing the mango worms are doing but only on a much larger scale and we're using the whole planet like it is a dog.

Here is an article on how dogs get infected: https://abodeforpets.com/how-do-dogs-get-mango-worms-and-how-can-you-treat-them/


--------------------



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Offlinedarkcreature
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Neurotech]
    #27225652 - 02/25/21 10:00 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

> If that's the case, then why is that process a component of the universe
this is the billion dollar question..

but my point was that because our world is not specifically benevolent towards conscious creatures living in it, it gives a big hint that our world wasnt designed in a conscious way, or at least, event if it was designed, it was not designed with the good of conscious creatures living in it in mind.


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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: darkcreature]
    #27225885 - 02/25/21 12:25 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

>but my point was that because our world is not specifically benevolent towards conscious creatures living in it, it gives a big hint that our world wasnt designed in a conscious way, or at least, event if it was designed, it was not designed with the good of conscious creatures living in it in mind.

If you look at it in terms of survival of the organisms in our world, it has been working out pretty well. We are overpopulated for goodness sake. Good and bad are as inherent in our world as life and death. You save somebody, you can't save someone else. Altruism, or benevolence, is well built into our biological world. REALLY interesting book by Richard Dawkins called The Selfish Gene, about how all behavior, even altruistic, boils down to getting the gene to survive. These ideas include how romantic love ensures the survival of the gene in the offspring, for instance, by having more people around to hunt, gather, protect etcetera.

While I can imagine a heaven of sorts, or Nirvana, I cannot fathom how one could create a physical world that is benevolent in all ways. Without the world and consciousness, the Universe is perfect, but there is no one to think that or see it, and no one to see God, because God IS everything. God had to split off parts of himself (you, me, rocks) perhaps to be able to reflect. Without a subject and an object there can be no self and no reflection. As soon as you create a world, it inherently has to have positives and negatives. That is why some seek truth via ego death or as close as we can come to it.

That being said, while absolutely everything material is transient, and perhaps an illusion of sorts, consciousness may be immortal, existing with or without a material universe. Maybe not individual consciousness, but the Big One?


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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: If you believe there is a God, please explain this as best you can. [Re: Neurotech]
    #27225896 - 02/25/21 12:29 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Just because your grow went bad doesn't mean you didn't create it with some intelligence. But when you inoculate grain you give it freedom to grow and develop. And at the same time, you have provided wonderful opportunities for bacteria and mold. They are part of what you created. To be fully benevolent, God would have had to just provide you with mushrooms when you wanted them. Where's the fun in that?


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