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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again * 1
    #27215980 - 02/20/21 05:14 AM (6 days, 9 hours ago)

I just got a sequence result back from https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/58012685, A Psilocybe from New Zealand and found that it's a 100% match for the type sequence of Psilocybe cyanescens, NR_111478.  It is 6 nucleotides different from P. weraroa, P. allenii and P. subaeruginosa.  This is the second time that Psilocybe cyanescens has been verified to occur in New Zealand.  The first time I thought maybe it was a fluke or a planted patch, but it appears to be in the wild.

This could mean that Psilocybe cyanescens came from New Zealand or Australia.  The biggest question with regards to figuring out the taxonomy of this complex is whether the type collection of Psilocybe subaeruginosa is the one we think of as subaeruginosa, or if it was actually P. cyanescens, P. allenii or less likely, P. azurescens.

Does anyone know if the type collection of P. subaeruginosa exists, and if so it's possible to get access to study it?  It was collected in 1927, so it's likely that standard sequencing wouldn't work - however since we know exactly which nucleotides we need to read, PCR primers that match the exact parts of the sequence could be made to get the necessary genetic data out of even a degraded sample to tell which species it really is.


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #27215998 - 02/20/21 05:37 AM (6 days, 9 hours ago)

Very cool!

I think I mentioned once in a similar debate that it was curious that the type collection of P. cyanescens
was done in Kew Royal Botanical Gardens, and whether it was possible it was imported.

You say "in the wild" - how wild in this instance? Since its regular habitat is usually man made.


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OfflineMoria841
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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #27216003 - 02/20/21 05:43 AM (6 days, 9 hours ago)

Crazy. Would the difference in macroscopic expression here compared to the standard, uniform specimens from the Northwest be indicative of a different environment or could it possibly be further evidence of the species' origins in Oceania??


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Invisiblecircles

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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: Moria841]
    #27216078 - 02/20/21 07:07 AM (6 days, 7 hours ago)

I-naturalist shows that this was found in central Auckland. Would you be interested in samples found in the wild wild?
I always had difficulties in telling apart cyanscence from subaeruginosa and do find specimens just like the one you've sequenced all the time.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: circles]
    #27216112 - 02/20/21 08:05 AM (6 days, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
You say "in the wild" - how wild in this instance? Since its regular habitat is usually man made.




It's a wood chip bed, so not very wild.

Quote:

Moria841 said:
Crazy. Would the difference in macroscopic expression here compared to the standard, uniform specimens from the Northwest be indicative of a different environment or could it possibly be further evidence of the species' origins in Oceania??




I don't know - would be interesting to cultivate this and see if standard cyanescens fruit.  I have dried material which may have viable spores.

Quote:

circles said:
I-naturalist shows that this was found in central Auckland. Would you be interested in samples found in the wild wild?
I always had difficulties in telling apart cyanscence from subaeruginosa and do find specimens just like the one you've sequenced all the time.




Yes, it's a group I am working on so more samples from more different types of habitats would be very helpful.


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OfflineRenegadeMycologist
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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #27216123 - 02/20/21 08:18 AM (6 days, 6 hours ago)

This is nice discovery.

Not sure what to make of wild habitat and wood chips, when people make wood chips. I ve seen posts of cyans grow in dune grass here on shroomery, maybe cyans mutated from azzies.

Can originally described subaeruginosa be conspecific with azurescens, just an idea and a question ?


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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #27216232 - 02/20/21 10:00 AM (6 days, 4 hours ago)

Interesting news, looking forward to hearing more!


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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: CHUCK.HNTR]
    #27216567 - 02/20/21 01:42 PM (6 days, 1 hour ago)

cool stuff!  hope this new mushroom revolution makes it easier to get funding, aswell as legality in some areas making it easier to do! and with the novel chemicals now found with medical potential prob gives a few ways to garner moneys..

would the fact its said to found on softwood and likely the type section from softwood its probable its likely actual sub? u can ignore if this is stupid, just a thought.

It may be tuff to get the herbarium sample shipped out of NZ as prob a pain to get it back into the country as so much phytosanitation issues on those islands, and sanitizing gamma etc may affect future study? but who knows maybe easier for specimens.


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Invisiblecircles

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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #27217098 - 02/20/21 06:45 PM (5 days, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

circles said:
I-naturalist shows that this was found in central Auckland. Would you be interested in samples found in the wild wild?
I always had difficulties in telling apart cyanscence from subaeruginosa and do find specimens just like the one you've sequenced all the time.




Yes, it's a group I am working on so more samples from more different types of habitats would be very helpful.





Ok will get in touch in due course.


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OfflineMycoangulo

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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: circles]
    #27217339 - 02/20/21 09:37 PM (5 days, 17 hours ago)

It was west Auckland, not Central Auckland .

Substrate was mostly woodchip (Pinus radiata) with some other woody debris mixed in (Totara, Hoheria, Karamu)

It was collected from right in the middle of this subsecotioides patch.

https://inaturalist.nz/observations/58014141


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Edited by Mycoangulo (02/20/21 11:27 PM)


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: Mycoangulo]
    #27217393 - 02/20/21 10:23 PM (5 days, 16 hours ago)

Quote:

Mycoangulo said:
It was collected from right in the middle of this subsecotioides patch.

https://inaturalist.nz/observations/58014141




It's like watching some kind of evolutionary showdown in the fungal world. Very cool!


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InvisibleBlazer420
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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: Anglerfish]
    #27217405 - 02/20/21 10:30 PM (5 days, 16 hours ago)

Damn, Me and xthrx knew we was finding some sorts of wavy subs out these ways. Fucking awesome 2 hear its as common as we thought!


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OfflineMycoangulo

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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: Blazer420]
    #27217408 - 02/20/21 10:32 PM (5 days, 16 hours ago)

I think this won't be the last cyanescens sequence.

I'm not sure what to say to a lot of the comments about cyanescens and related species.

So I'm just going to leave this here. It's a few photos I have taken of Psilocybe section cyanescens mushrooms in Auckland, New Zealand.



The mushroom that was sequenced is top row second from the right.

Lets just say I find the concept of differentiating subaeruginosa from cyanescens based on morphology to be an area of confusion and I find it endearing when people try.

I hope one day that they can teach me how to do it.


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Edited by Mycoangulo (02/20/21 11:00 PM)


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: Mycoangulo]
    #27219413 - 02/22/21 01:40 AM (4 days, 13 hours ago)

I have found obvious Psilocybe cyanescens patches here in NZ myself a few times myself... That thin wavy cap is unmistakable, I can tell subs and cyans apart with ease.
This just confirms the fact Psilocybe cyanescens occurs here. Knew it...

Psilocybe cyanescens is not as common as Psilocybe subaeruginosa. Both species are definitely present in New Zealand.

Psilocybe allenii is also present in NZ...
Psilocybe azurescens however, is not present in NZ...


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OfflineMycoangulo

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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: RogerTheRetard]
    #27220948 - 02/22/21 09:19 PM (3 days, 17 hours ago)

I have found wavy caps many times, but I will not call them Psilocybe cyanescens without sequencing.

Nor will I say azurescens is not present. Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.

There is so little REAL data that as far as I am concerned 'Subs' just means unidentified section cyanescens mushroom in NZ or Australia. It might have originally have meant subaeruginosa but I certainly don't mean subaeruginosa when I say 'subs'.

This result further demonstrates the weak and unreliable link between morphology and species. We need more data before we can use morphology reliably to ID subs in NZ down to species level.


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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: Mycoangulo]
    #27220997 - 02/22/21 09:50 PM (3 days, 16 hours ago)

The paradox of the fungi


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Offlinethe man
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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: CHUCK.HNTR]
    #27221153 - 02/22/21 11:46 PM (3 days, 15 hours ago)

too purely academic pursuits!! hear hear.  :toast:  :skol:  :solved:


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: Mycoangulo]
    #27221240 - 02/23/21 12:46 AM (3 days, 14 hours ago)

Quote:

Mycoangulo said:
I have found wavy caps many times, but I will not call them Psilocybe cyanescens without sequencing.

Nor will I say azurescens is not present. Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.



Psilocybe cyanescens is obviously here, as confirmed by the OP.
I can easily tell them apart from Psilocybe subaeruginosa, cyans have thin wavy caps... Easy enough to distinguish by eye.
There is one report of Psilocybe allenii from Christchurch AFAIK.
These are no reports of Psilocybe azurescens in NZ, so I will clearly say that Psilocybe azurescens is not present in New Zealand.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #27221256 - 02/23/21 01:00 AM (3 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

RenegadeMycologist said:
Can originally described subaeruginosa be conspecific with azurescens, just an idea and a question ?




Unlikely since the azurescens sequence hasn't turned up in Australia or New Zealand.


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InvisibleRogerTheRetard
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Re: Psilocybe cyanescens turns up in New Zealand, again [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #27221260 - 02/23/21 01:03 AM (3 days, 13 hours ago)

:whathesaid:
Psilocybe azurescens does not occur in NZ or Australia.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Hunting and Identification

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