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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
assessing intelligence
    #2721312 - 05/24/04 03:03 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I found this statement:

Quote:

Intelligence can easily be determine by actions,speech,mannerism,etc.




To be extremely offensive. I believe that assessing intelligence on the basis of actions, speech and mannerism is equivalent to assessing intelligence on the basis of culturally acceptable ways of behaving. The flaw in assessing intelligence along these lines is that it is culturally specific and threatens to label those who do not act, speak or behave in culturally appropriate ways as "less intelligent."

Anyone else have thoughts on this matter?


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Offlinejono
misc.
Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 137
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: assessing intelligence [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2721648 - 05/24/04 06:46 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I very much agree with your reasoning Phencyclidine.

I believe that the whole area of intelligence, and "assessing intelligence' is all incredibly problematic.

On one hand, I think when people commonly use the word 'intelligence' it becomes more of a problem of semantics than one of anything real.

On investigation it does seem that before one can even begin to adequately assess 'intelligence' one first has to understand what exactly intelligence is. And as soon as that question is asked, one realises how difficult it is to actually define intelligence, and the problem becomes more one of philosophy than of anything substantial.

On the subject of 'intelligence' ( to use it in the inadequately defined and culturally relative sense ) I feel that people often think of intelligence as being one of the most important traits of a human being. That is, that more intelligent human beings are apparently in some way superior, but not superior simply in the area of intelligence itself, but rather all round more superior beings than less intelligent ones. But I have to add, and this is simply a personal opinion, that there are many many opportunities when I have spent time with someone who is commonly defined as being of a high intelligence, and found the experience to be much less than rewarding. Infact there are often many times when intelligent people are very unkind, self centred, inconsiderate, and generally not pleasant human beings.

I think basically the point I am trying to make, is that we as a society seem to base too much emphasis on the quality of what is commonly defined as intelligence, in people, and simply because someone is smarter than someone else, doesnt immediately make them a better person. As obvious as this may seem, I still think it is a misconception that is held by a great number of people.

Metta,

Jono.


--------------------
Our problem results from acting like cowboys on a limitless frontier when in truth we inhabit a living spaceship with a finely balanced life-support system." David C. Korton


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OfflineScarfmeister
Thrill Seeker
Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 8,127
Loc: The will to power
Last seen: 3 years, 20 days
Re: assessing intelligence [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2721881 - 05/24/04 10:50 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I agree, the way you talk and behave are more of a testament to your upbringing.


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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
Re: assessing intelligence [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #2722086 - 05/24/04 11:43 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I have always thought that the best measures of intelligence would be to figure out how quickly one learns material (and not just necessarily learning in terms of memorization, but also of comprehension). Even this is not necessarily straight forward. It seems reasonable that some forms of knowledge (eg// calculus) will be easier for those with a background in mathematics to learn than those without such a background. How can one ever be sure that the material being used to calculate the rates is on an equal footing? Perhaps chosing random subject areas would be one way of doing it.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: assessing intelligence [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2722157 - 05/24/04 12:11 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

have you ever read gardener's theory of multiple intelligences?


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineHypnoToad
Stranger

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 325
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: assessing intelligence [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #2722701 - 05/24/04 02:23 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"I agree, the way you talk and behave are more of a testament to your upbringing. "

I have to respectfully disagree with this.I was raised in very "street" type neighborhoods.Ones full of slang,bad grammar and such things.Typical street life.I however do not speak and behave this way even though I was raised around it the majority of my life.One chooses his/her behaviour and how they speak.


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"There is no fire like lust, no grip like hate, no net like delusions, no river like craving."



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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: assessing intelligence [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2723552 - 05/24/04 05:25 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

yes I agree with you hypno....I was brought up in a very abusive home, people constantly flying off the handle and being out of control.  I am damn near the complete opposite of that.

as far as measuring intelligence goes, phencyclidine, you bring up an awesome point, one I hadn't really thought of in the front of my mind.  Labeling intelligence is a rather hard thing to do, i think it's how "well" the brain is "wired."  how fast and well one grasps ideas, concepts, and principles...now being smart...that's what you do with it :wink:


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


Edited by kaiowas (05/24/04 05:54 PM)


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: assessing intelligence [Re: kaiowas]
    #2723693 - 05/24/04 06:04 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

There are different kinds of intelligence such mathematic, spatial, linguistic, musical, kinetic (bodily), social, etc. Many times a person may be extremely gifted in one type, but deficient in another.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 6 months, 19 hours
Re: assessing intelligence [Re: Evolving]
    #2724293 - 05/24/04 08:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I believe you are entirely correct in separating out various areas of "intelligence." I especially liked that you included kinetic and social. I think it might be best to look upon "intelligence" as a capacity to learn and not so much an indication of what has been learned. Dropped from space into a totally new environment the more "applicably intelligent" person will be more likely to flourish.


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OfflineWorldbridger
Nemo Lotus

Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 1,479
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: assessing intelligence [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2724379 - 05/24/04 09:05 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I know how to access intelligence, you just have to think. It is as simple as "using your brain".


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Invisiblepsyka
Praetorian
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
Re: assessing intelligence [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2724415 - 05/24/04 09:19 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I'm pretty good with playing my guitar :smile:

But, I'm not very good at working on cars. Both require a form of intelligence. We are ALL intelligent. Intelligence is a decision much like anything else. Some learn faster, some are slower, but eventually all paths will meet in the center.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: assessing intelligence [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2724428 - 05/24/04 09:26 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I look at the way someone uses their mind. The kind of intelligence I am attracted to is the type when someone has a way of seeing a common thing uncommonly.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Offlinemanna_man
High onlife.....andcrack

Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Vancouver
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: assessing intelligence [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2724457 - 05/24/04 09:33 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Two words : Intelligence quotient


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This post is protected under copyrite law.All above content is strictly the property of ?manna_man.Any infringement of copyright property is strictly prohibited.Any violators will be stretched, shot, and then vaporized into a state of anti-matter, where they will cease to exist.


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
Re: assessing intelligence [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2725072 - 05/24/04 11:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

DoctorJ,

no, I have not.


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
Re: assessing intelligence [Re: HypnoToad]
    #2725084 - 05/24/04 11:43 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

HypnoToad said:
One chooses his/her behaviour and how they speak.




I agree with that, but I believe that it is possible that someone may chose to speak in a manner that (s)he realizes will be perceived as being characterized by lacking intelligence. Hence, I fail to see whether you could know if someone is just acting a certain way or if they are genuinely intelligent.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: assessing intelligence [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2725551 - 05/25/04 01:25 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Evolving basically spelled it out. It has flaws, but I could see it as the basis for a more complicated theory.

There is no question in my mind that our methods of assessing intelligence are horribly flawed, as are our methods for evaluating academic growth and achievement. There is a lot more work that needs to be done in the feild of categorizing different types of intelligence and identifying their intrinsic cognitive components. The only thing that can hammer this out is years and years of research studies and experiments.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisiblePhencyclidine
Molecule

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
Re: assessing intelligence [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2725988 - 05/25/04 03:00 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Makes sense to me. Being able to balance is a sort of intelligence. Learning how to manipulate that ability is a form of intelligence. How do we integrate it all? Or do we view them as separate?


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