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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: WhiteThumbScience]
#27727213 - 04/09/22 11:43 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
WhiteThumbScience said: This is millet vs oat and oat is way more dense and results are better off the same control regardless of the high number of inoculation points...
Total hogwash. Your oats are bacterial as fuck, even if they were perfect your statement is still unsubstantiated.
I see that you're using self healing injection ports, likely for multispore to grains.
Quote:
WhiteThumbScience said: I think millet comes out terrible due to the fact the smaller grains cannot hold the higher moisture and instead for proper colonization you must have almost wet looking grains which slows the growth down?
Now I have definitely figured my millet recipes out and I can use millet effectively no problem but newbies might have a lot of trouble with millet?
Oat grain is #1 in my extensive experience!!!
The water content of the grain is somewhat irrelevant at this stage, the colony only requires a minimum for moisture; hydrated seeds contain more than enough h2o to support the mycelial colony. H2o becomes far more important during fruiting when h2o is drawn frowm the reservoir provided by the substrate.
As for oats and the many issues that are associated with their husks, bioburden, myco toxins, etc....
Edited by Stipe-n Cap (04/09/22 07:48 PM)
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bigfootscreepyuncl
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 1
#27727219 - 04/09/22 11:48 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I ended up abandoning the millet that I soaked for 19 hours because I'm a panicky noob lol. I should have just moved forward and followed the TEK as it was written. I filled some new jars last night for no-prep and left the soaked grain in jars on my kitchen counter so I could add them to the compost bin today. Almost every single grain was beginning to sprout so there was plenty of moisture in them. Pair that with the 'wet load' into the jars and I think they would have been just fine.
I should have never doubted your methods p9, I was just expecting to see the grains swell or visibly plump up after their soak
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I 5318008 NOT a virgin!
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: bigfootscreepyuncl] 2
#27727223 - 04/09/22 11:49 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Second guessing is second nature ; )
Good luck with your next round
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WhiteThumbScience
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27727950 - 04/09/22 08:06 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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First off I am not using ms lol!!! The SHIPs are because I use liquid culture from agar from clone slants!!!
Second off oat grain is literally the best grain I have ever used! Colonization is fast and so densely rhizomorphic that it's quite amazing!!!
I can show some more examples I have 3 shelf's full of various stage clones except I do indeed have a new ms going but that's one out of now 13 strains!!!
I also ran an edible mushroom farm but we did indeed use rye berry because we could get it ultra cheap and because it was the industry standard blah blah blah!
I get less contamination like none actually!
Look the only bag out of 126 I have done in the last 3 weeks only one contaminated and it was millet!!!
Now I will admit I been doing this since 2004 so yes I have crazy experience so maybe others will fail more but I swear that oat is like fail proof for me...
It's literally a Grenada dick out doesn't matter what you do it comes out perfect everytime and I can fill the bags right to the filter and yet with millet it will ruin the filter so again seems like all the issues with the other grains are solved with oat??
I DO autoclave in a barrel sterilizer and I DO run it for 120 minutes at 17 psi (Presealed and only once in a blue moon a defective bag breaks and no I do not use unicorns because they have way too many defects in a roll!!! Shame on unicorn because the ones that are good are really good but I know a better source so?
-------------------- Just say NO to police searches!!! -d-DEX-25 Mathematics knows no races or geographic boundaries; for mathematics, the cultural world is one country. -David Hilbert
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WhiteThumbScience
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27727958 - 04/09/22 08:09 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Also your very disrespectful for saying the science I perform isn't "substantial evidence"?
In this science what is then because I will post my grow logs and some redacted research papers if needed??
-------------------- Just say NO to police searches!!! -d-DEX-25 Mathematics knows no races or geographic boundaries; for mathematics, the cultural world is one country. -David Hilbert
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WhiteThumbScience
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27727968 - 04/09/22 08:17 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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One last thing and sorry for multiple posts I should have thought this through more before posting? My bad mods!!!
How can you say moisture is totally irrelevant because that's not even remotely true? While even I said moisture can vary quite a bit there are still very very preferential parameters to follow!!!
Wet spot is the biggest danger if the moisture is too much and then the problem with dry spawn is it absolutely can stall out on you! I have revived a few with sterile water just a tiny tiny amount but totally not something that should be attempted especially if you have a large operation.
It's obvious alot of the so called experts on here have never gone full commercial scale and it shows!!!
That said we still have all the best minds on Shroomery and I am proud to be here with you guys!!! Like family to me!!!
-------------------- Just say NO to police searches!!! -d-DEX-25 Mathematics knows no races or geographic boundaries; for mathematics, the cultural world is one country. -David Hilbert
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KROM
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: WhiteThumbScience] 2
#27727999 - 04/09/22 08:37 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
WhiteThumbScience said: In this science what is then because I will post my grow logs and some redacted research papers if needed??
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🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
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Doctor Mario
🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄



Registered: 08/07/20
Posts: 1,894
Loc: 🇺🇸
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: KROM] 4
#27728124 - 04/09/22 10:15 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Just stopping by to say, "Fuck oats."
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The Fresh Prints
Smell ya later



Registered: 05/19/12
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: Doctor Mario] 1
#27728128 - 04/09/22 10:22 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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WhiteThumbScience
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: Doctor Mario]
#27728131 - 04/09/22 10:27 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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What's the grain you use and what is your experience level with which grains?
I believe it's the person when it comes to oat or else I am the luckiest oat guy alive!!!
Btw up until 2014 I would have agreed that oat is sub par but boy oh boy was I wrong?
I know it's subjective but I did get higher yields and higher potency was confirmed in two strains I have bred tested with a paper written on it!!!
I'm not a mycologist officially but I am a scientist who does publish some but not often enough?
-------------------- Just say NO to police searches!!! -d-DEX-25 Mathematics knows no races or geographic boundaries; for mathematics, the cultural world is one country. -David Hilbert
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WhiteThumbScience
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: Doctor Mario]
#27728133 - 04/09/22 10:29 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Also you want to see what a real bulk grow looks like I am doing a full video series in fact I leased space just for the video and I'm setting up a low tech high yield operation just for a video series... 100lb fresh per week!!!
Follow me I'll posting the intro soon!!!
-------------------- Just say NO to police searches!!! -d-DEX-25 Mathematics knows no races or geographic boundaries; for mathematics, the cultural world is one country. -David Hilbert
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The Fresh Prints
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Registered: 05/19/12
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: WhiteThumbScience] 3
#27728138 - 04/09/22 10:33 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Maybe you should start your own thread instead of derailing this one.
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WhiteThumbScience
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: The Fresh Prints]
#27728141 - 04/09/22 10:35 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Uhmm besides that one small pitch for my video I am definitely on topic not to mention it's an older post and everyone is hijacking looks like?
I am discussing inoculation points being pointless when I can get better results from larger grains?
-------------------- Just say NO to police searches!!! -d-DEX-25 Mathematics knows no races or geographic boundaries; for mathematics, the cultural world is one country. -David Hilbert
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Doctor Mario
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: WhiteThumbScience] 2
#27728149 - 04/09/22 10:43 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Fresh Prints said:
Maybe you should start your own thread instead of derailing this one.
Let's take the conversation here and I'll follow along. I'd like to see what a grow that size looks like.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: WhiteThumbScience] 4
#27728400 - 04/10/22 07:04 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
WhiteThumbScience said: Uhmm besides that one small pitch for my video I am definitely on topic not to mention it's an older post and everyone is hijacking looks like?
I am discussing inoculation points being pointless when I can get better results from larger grains?
Better results? Show your canopies not your bacerial spawn.
Quote:
WhiteThumbScience said: Second off oat grain is literally the best grain I have ever used! Colonization is fast and so densely rhizomorphic that it's quite amazing!!!
I can show some more examples I have 3 shelf's full of various stage clones except I do indeed have a new ms going but that's one out of now 13 strains!!!
You mean dense mycelium that thickens in response to bacterial infections, because that's what's pictured in your previous post.
It would appear as though your "extensive experience" hasn't taught you how to visually identify issues with your spawn, nor how to produce axenic spawn.
If you want to talk bro science and noob voodoo then make your own thread. This thread is for millet prep. I attend to my own threads to avoid arguments with combative noobs just like you.
This threads title doesn't say:
"hey, oats are fuckn dope so fuck millet".
If I wanted an oat thread I would have written one; oats suck. Oats suck for many reasons.
Let me list some of them for you:
1. Oats require boiling like other large cereal grains. Boiling requires energy, the byproducts of this boiling produces heat and steam. Have you ever prepped more than 50 lbs of grain at a time?
Read the OP.
2. Oats are not a naked grain, oats have a husk. Pressure cookers and autoclaves sterilize via surface contact by heated steam, as well as pressure, and temperature over time. Husks act as an insulative barrier to sterilization. The grains themselves are insulative and are a barrier of their own, this is why we increase the time under heat and pressure over other types of loads like liquids, or instruments.
3. Depending upon source: your oats will have varying levels of endospore load, or what the agricultural community refers to as "bioburden". This bioburden will be influenced by geography, processing plant machinery, geography, and species of grain. Mycotoxins, pesticides, etc, will also be a consideration influenced by the same.
Oats can be pretty hit or miss. Oats are a noob grain imo, much like corn or rice. One can have luck with oats depending upon source, experience level, etc.
Naked cereal grains are a far better choice due to the way our bench sterilizers function. Pressure cookers and bench-top autoclaves are not designed to process the load densities that we subject them to, so special considerations must be made to remove as many barriers to sterility as possible. Grain selection is one of these considerations.
Grains are a dense and complex load. Small bird seeds are actually preferable when considering efficiency. Here's a small list of reasons why:
1. Small seeds are small. They vave a greater over-all surface area but are less dense, seeds are loaded with surface moisture; surface moisture will actually facilitate the effective sterilization of those surfaces.
2. Smaller seeds do not require energy consumption other than the pc cycle to fully hydrate. Less enery expenditure, less heat, more inoculation points.
Read the OP.
3. Seeds do not carry the same biological contaminant load as larger cereal grains. The species of grain and geographical location of production as well as processing will, as mentioned above, play a huge roll in bioburden and other contaminants.
4. Seeds are a naked grain with exposed surface. Biological contaminants will be present on the surfaces of these grains.
Small seeds like millet contain less overall water than larger hydrated cereal grains, which is irrelevant.
Hyphae are microscopic filaments which extend radially and search for food within their environment. They do not require excessive environmental resources to maintain health and thrive within their respective environments. Excess environmental resources can actually harm the colony while potentially benefiting the competition.
The water contained within the small seeds of millet or any other bird feed provides more than enough environmental resources in terms of nutritional content and h2O to support a healthy and vigorous mycelial colony.
Spawn run is then followed up by spawning to bulk substrate; bulk substrate (in this case hydrated coco-coir and vermiculite) acts as a water reservoir for the next stage of mycelial growth and development. fruiting requires large water reservoirs to form large/dense fruits, this reservoir is provided by the substrate, not the grain.
These principles apply to commercial edible species as well, just substitute the bulk substrate for supplemented sawdust. Consider as well that the amount of spawn used to inoculate commercial production blocks is far less than what we use for Psilocybe species.
Think about that for just 1 second... how much of a role is the grain moisture content playimg in fruit body development when you're inoculating with what? 8-16 oz of grain spawn per block?
The average tub uses 4lbs of spawn (4 myco-quarts), the average production block is far less than that. Why? Because grains act more as a form of supplementation than hydration. 4lbs of spawn versus 5k grams (11lbs) of h2O to hydrate the substrate. Where does the colony draw it's water from?
Production blocks require less spawn due to supplementation via soy hulls, brans, etc. Water is provided by the substate in every case; It's the substrate that provides the all important water reservoir for flush development, not your grain spawn. Grain spawn IS supplementation.
A 5 or 10l+lb commercial production block has say 8-16 oz of grain spawn, how much more water do you think is used to hydrate that substrate?....I'll tell you: about 120% water content by weight for a 5lb block, 50-70% hydration by weight for a 10+lb production block.
This thread is for people interested in prepping millet, not oats.
Kindly make your own thread and leave the noob voodoo there.
Good day. 
Quote:
WhiteThumbScience said: I know it's subjective but I did get higher yields and higher potency was confirmed in two strains I have bred tested with a paper written on it!!!
This is just pure, unadulterated, high test wookery.
Edited by Stipe-n Cap (04/10/22 09:14 AM)
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WhiteThumbScience
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27728523 - 04/10/22 09:20 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I have to respond because everything you said was true more or less because your right on paper that makes sense BUT the COST is all I'm gonna say because I KNOW the math and the math is simple!
I'm not gonna tat for tat with you because we'll your speaking facts on the grain alone but you never thought of the money aspect did you which is part of my declaration as oat being supreme for MY operation! I will admit though I never tried oat for commercial grows and maybe it would be a problem not sure why that would be but it does require much more time and higher pressure/heat so hmmmm maybe your right for larger ops I guess I'll find out now?
The heat needed to sterilize the grains costs FAR FAR less then the grain difference in price itself!!!
You realize we have barrel sterilizers at farms for good reason?
Also millet is so messy have you have loaded up several 50lb bag of millet and tried to not get small grains everywhere?
I even have a fucking hopper and it's terrible. The grain goes everywhere it's a joke really is!!!
We use rye berry in almost every farm I know we'll we use sawdust to masters mix mostly but that's for another mushroom lol.
Like I said I used to hate on oat but whatever back to the original post...
I think inoculation points is over empathezised because in my experience it doesn't pan out BUT I do use a higher spawn rate then most farms do???
Problem is have you guys seen the price of millet lately???
I just bought 300lb of oat for 60 bucks and the same millet was astronomical!!! Wow???
-------------------- Just say NO to police searches!!! -d-DEX-25 Mathematics knows no races or geographic boundaries; for mathematics, the cultural world is one country. -David Hilbert
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: WhiteThumbScience] 2
#27728529 - 04/10/22 09:25 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Buddy, nobody gives a shit about your oats. Go make a circle jerk oat thread, this is a millet prep thread for fucks sake
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WhiteThumbScience
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27728534 - 04/10/22 09:28 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Wow I am talking about fucking millet what's your problem bro I'll shut up about the oats ok pin in it done!
Let's move on to the millet discussion which I thought I was having?
Question if we're discussing millet we can't compare it to other grains???
Really I am out of line???
-------------------- Just say NO to police searches!!! -d-DEX-25 Mathematics knows no races or geographic boundaries; for mathematics, the cultural world is one country. -David Hilbert
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WhiteThumbScience
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27728537 - 04/10/22 09:31 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Now on to the price because that's HUGE and if the inoculation points do not provide adequate benefits then why are we paying for premium spawn? The cost of millet is astronomical in my local market?
A dollar a pound which is...
-------------------- Just say NO to police searches!!! -d-DEX-25 Mathematics knows no races or geographic boundaries; for mathematics, the cultural world is one country. -David Hilbert
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mushboy
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Re: Grain Prep: How to get more inoculation points for less. [Re: WhiteThumbScience] 2
#27728546 - 04/10/22 09:37 AM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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I think you made your point. You like oats.
This is a millet thread. You've said ur piece now move on with your day.
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