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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Registered: 12/15/20
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Loc: North eastern USA
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: karri0n]
    #27195679 - 02/09/21 02:33 PM (3 years, 6 days ago)

Thank you Coversall.

@KarriOn &FungiRogers...yes I can get oats. And I plan on getting them, they’re just a little further drive than I’ve had time to make. However!! The main reason why I used popcorn was because it was one of the first things I was told to use HERE! Right here on the Shroomery You see?!?! You get 15 different answers here on the Shroomery and everywhere not just here. Popcorn is actually very much recommended as a very easy to use and fast colonizing grain and it’s easy to shake when that time comes. So I don’t understand why you say it’s just the next step up from brown rice. I got the Tek and I followed the Tek from here and I even double,triple & quadruple  checked and cross reference soak and cook times and PC times. I WAS TOLD TO SQUEEZE them to check them just like I would be instructed to do if I was using any other grain.  I’m not a moron I’m pretty sure I can tell if something is cooked or hydrated. I was a chef for 25 years. Somethings cannot be taught by just reading and the only way to learn is by doing and by trial and error unless you have a trusted cultivator standing by your side which I do not have… Unfortunately. I had to throw my first week grains out because they stalled. It’s unfortunate that I don’t know the reason why because I wasn’t able to learn from this failure. I hope that I don’t have a repeat with this popcorn. The other reason why I use the popcorn was because I went out and bought 6 pounds of the shit four weeks ago. Just like I did brown rice and brown rice flour LOL. So like in my previous post I will continue making BRF cakes and attempting grain and continue to perfect my agar techniques Learning how to isolate genetics and also perfecting sterile techniques. Unfortunately  I have at least 12 spore syringes that I also bought weeks ago only to find out that I can’t use them to inoculate anything because it’s not proper.
On the flipside I now have a ton of material to work with. I hadno idea when purchasing these how far just a couple of drops of single MSS could go. I had no idea that from just a couple of drops from a spore solution that thousands of pounds of mushrooms could be grown lol. Knowing this now I hope to colonize the world with cubes ha ha Ha.
OK next subject at hand! Lol. What the hell do I got going on here?

Top and bottom views.


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Can’t we all just get along???
Progress not perfection.
Don’t judge others because their flaws are different than yours


Edited by ErnieErgot67 (02/09/21 03:55 PM)


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27195801 - 02/09/21 04:03 PM (3 years, 6 days ago)

And these. 2 r doubles.
Thanks and always much gratitude for you advise, support, guidance.  Constructive criticism always appreciated, welcomed and wanted from everybody and anybody who cares to add their two cents.


Edited by ErnieErgot67 (02/09/21 04:13 PM)


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27195812 - 02/09/21 04:11 PM (3 years, 6 days ago)


These three plates were inoculated with MSS on February 1 and absolutely nothing happened. I got the spores some grumpy gills or something. They were very professionally packaged and labeled and obviously made up very carefully because they were not contaminated. What could be the reason behind this??


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Can’t we all just get along???
Progress not perfection.
Don’t judge others because their flaws are different than yours


Edited by ErnieErgot67 (02/09/21 09:37 PM)


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27196096 - 02/09/21 06:33 PM (3 years, 6 days ago)

Welllllllllll, as embarrassed as I am I’m taking it like a champ. I’m a fucking loser newbie with his first failed grow. Second if you want to count my jars that’s stalled out. The only reason why am going to post these pictures is so other new jacks and see what presporulated trichoderma looked like in its early stages so you can get it the F out of H before it’s spores start pop’n and populat’n  the only spot I have to grow in. WTF!!


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Progress not perfection.
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Offlinekarri0n
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27196256 - 02/09/21 07:56 PM (3 years, 6 days ago)

I'm not sure if that's a sponsor or not, but you definitely aren't supposed to name vendors on the forum if you're using their spores for something other than looking at them under a microscope. If it's not a sponsor, you shouldn't mention them at all. This can get you in trouble here.

One particular vendor sponsor is very "Reliable", and another ones's "Spores Work" very well. If you catch my drift.


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Panaeolus Bisporus


Edited by karri0n (02/09/21 08:45 PM)


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: karri0n]
    #27196419 - 02/09/21 09:44 PM (3 years, 6 days ago)

Yes even I’ve used both those methods before I found them reliable and the spores worked. But that other one mentioned I can’t figure it out. Very very clean. I couldn’t see anything in my P Tree scope.
Not even bacteria.  So last night I looked again using three new ones. I’ll just have to wait and see.

I’m surprise you had no comment on my shoeboxes. I’m actually starting to think it’s Cobbweb  it’s hard to tell. Whatever it is it doesn’t belong there! And I’m not too happy about it.


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Progress not perfection.
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OfflineMindful Mushi
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27196429 - 02/09/21 09:54 PM (3 years, 6 days ago)

Thats strange. Maybe there is such few spores that none even got on the plates.

Best of luck on ur next tub!


Edit: My trich tub got BRIGHT green. That is dark looking. Doesnt look good unfortunately. Its all good though. Next time just transfer some of your colonized grains to agar. If a tub goes south. Atleast you have something to fall back on.


 

All of this came from one jar before i spawned it to 2 tubs.


Edited by Mindful Mushi (02/09/21 09:59 PM)


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Offlinekarri0n
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27197151 - 02/10/21 11:02 AM (3 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

ErnieErgot67 said:

I’m surprise you had no comment on my shoeboxes. I’m actually starting to think it’s Cobbweb  it’s hard to tell. Whatever it is it doesn’t belong there! And I’m not too happy about it.




There's one good thread on reddit called "it's not cobweb'. There's a similar thread on here by bod. You almost certainly don't have cobweb(dactyllium).

https://www.reddit.com/r/unclebens/comments/fm8kdu/listen_the_fck_up_you_do_not_have_cobweb/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

I didn't say anything about your boxes because I don't know either way and don't want to give you bad advice. I saw one other person say they look bad, but that's also the guy that said to use uncle ben's.

I don't see anything wrong with those boxes but I couldn't tell you either way without smelling them or seeing them in person. I don't see any green, but you might.

I don't see any rhizomes but you don't always get them, it just depends on your culture and your conditions whether your surface ends up rhizomorphic or fuzzy.

I always smell this stuff days to weeks before I see it. Do your boxes smell like mushrooms or mold?

Regular Mold stinks like moldy bread. I usually smell this after the second flush but will continue getting very small flushes and not see any mold until flush 4, 5, or 6.

Trich has a distinctive smell which isn't like the mold you get on bread. It's chemically and strong, like turpentine or acetone or one of those other organic chemicals. It also starts as these bright white cloud bubble like growths which are thicker than the mushroom myc. Stinks bad then turns green at those spots after a couple days.

The vast majority of contaminants(bacterias, yeasts, molds) just want to eat your grain. This is why we are so careful in prepping, sterilizing, and inoculating the grain. Once the mycelium has covered all of the grain, it is nearly impossible for a contaminant to get any food from it.

Trich on the other hand actually eats your mycelium, but can only do so if it is already compromised somehow. This is why you can spawn not so clean(bacterial) spawn, get some colonization, then suddenly trich attack. Or get one flush then trich, etc.

I could be super wrong and everything white in those boxes turns green tomorrow, but don't count it out unless it actually does.

And don't worry about trich sporulating in your grow area. Your grow area is filled with contaminant spores and bacteria. Everywhere is.

The method that we use of growing spawn with no competitor species or bacteria, then spawn ing to contaminant resistant bulk substrates, is what keeps our substrates from being overtaken by mold. The mushroom mycelium when grown with no competitors is strong, vigorous, and plentiful enough that nothing else can take hold. It then releases antibiotics and compounds that fight competitors into the substrate.

Trichoderma is a mold that typically lives in a symbiotic relationship with plant roots. It gives micronutrients to the plants and the plants give it sugar. However, it also has the ability to attack and parasitize other fungi that have been weakend by bacteria, other fungi, or age and lack of nutrition. When your spawn is weakened by bacteria is when trich is able to strike and eat your mycelium. Strong and healthy mycelium generally won't be susceptible to trich or other molds until after the second flush.

Read the thread "embracing the trich" and see the huge list of TC's who will all tell you that if you get mold it's because of the spawn and not latent spores.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26983886

Of course be clean and avoid cross contamination as much as possible. But please don't toss out your grows because you think mold might show up soon.

And Ernie, I wouldn't normally do this but I am really worried you're gonna listen to this Mushi guy. Coversall already warned you about him but I just want to put this here so you can understand why this stuff is a bad idea.

Quote:

Mindful Mushi said:
Id recommend learning a handful of TEKs and integrating them.




- This is possibly the worst advice for a new grower. The proper advice is to choose a tek and follow it exactly, without changing a single thing. "integrating" and changing things is how you end up with people saying "well i did this tek and didnt work" when they skipped three steps and pulled some bullshit out of their garage for step 4 that seemed like it would work.

Quote:

Mindful Mushi said:
Start with PF tek.




- actually a piece of decent advice, if you don't have a pressure cooker, or only have spore syringes available to you
 

Quote:

Mindful Mushi said:
Then read up on UNCLE BENs tek




I take back my previous comment about the worst possible advice. Uncle bens is over hydrated, over cooked, and is going to be the perfect environment for all the disgusting shit in your syringe, while suffocating your myc.

Quote:

Mindful Mushi said:
2. Read the TEK in my sig and you will master agar in no time.





- I did. I think I need to take back my comment about worst possible advice again.  It's ridiculously complex and also it says to put peroxide in your agar. In case anyone on this thread isn't aware, peroxide is used for killing fungus. Which is what we are trying to grow.

- If you want to easily make agar, you mix 10g agar with 500ml of the water that you used to cook your grain. If you only have BRF then you use 10g BRF and 500ML water and 10g Agar.



Quote:

Mindful Mushi said:
Uncle Bens Jars is an easy start. Then go to agar. Then to popcorn/coffee Jars.





Popcorn is not very good and it's really expensive. I'm not sure if it's too hard for the mushrooms to eat quickly or what, but other grains consistently work better. The only reason people add coffee is to make up for the fact that corn is large and doesn't provide many inoculation points. Most people abandoned using coffee grounds with other grain, since the grains provide plenty of nutrition, and many folks report contamination when using coffee.


Edited by karri0n (02/10/21 04:54 PM)


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: karri0n]
    #27200670 - 02/11/21 11:45 PM (3 years, 4 days ago)

Awesome awesome awesome advise. That was quite an education I just got. I learned more about contams right there than all the reading I did. Btw...I think your right. My tubs were fine...at least for now. Do you know how I know? Because I have mushrooms growing in them! LOL! I am so freaking happy and so excited. Like a kid on Christmas morning. Well two out of the four have them. And they are two different varieties so that would explain that. I definitely stunted some growth by putting them outside for that hour. I’m glad I came to my senses and brought them back in. You don’t need to worry about me listening to mushy whatever his name is. I’m trying to do things correctly however I did inoculate two bags of uncle Ben’s only because I have 4 pints of LC. I also eat uncle Ben’s rice so I have several bags in my cupboard so for shits and giggles I inoculated a couple. I think you forget about the stuff I’ve already done. I’ve already made agar and I’m doing pretty well with it. I will not be going backwards though I appreciate your concern and your advice and I hope you continue to give it. I have pretty much picked a tech. Well I kind of picked 2. I will be doing grain  to CVG and BRF to bulk (CVG.) And probably straight up PF TEK. I will see which one I like best. What is nothing wrong with experimenting

Here are my twins with a couple more on the way if you look closely. The other photo is my lonely cake that was not fully colonized when I did up these shoeboxes. So I threw it in a Tupperware with some perlite and I believe those are the knots. This is what experimenting gets ya Brutha! I gives you experience and knowledge. 😉 after I learn when I can learn I will definitely pick a tech and dial it in as you all say. 👍🏻 I have only made it this far from everybody’s help on here. AND...not for for nothing but from YouTube and Instagram as well. Where I come from we have many teachers. Mush peace, mush love, mush laughter.



--------------------
Can’t we all just get along???
Progress not perfection.
Don’t judge others because their flaws are different than yours


Edited by ErnieErgot67 (02/12/21 06:50 AM)


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27200971 - 02/12/21 07:02 AM (3 years, 3 days ago)

On the same note but on a different note. I am really need some help here. First of all I have these multi sport syringes that are actually very clean. I added them to agar and for the first time nothing happened. I tried four different varieties and nothing germinated not even a contaminant. The agar dishes look as clean as the day I poured them. Is there a trick to get the spores to germinate? Number two here’s a few pictures of some spore syringe innoc dishes. These images are the complete opposite and I need some help identifying what’s going on. I’m pretty sure it’s just all contamination  with the exception of the Taz
HELP!


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Offlinekarri0n
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27201309 - 02/12/21 10:57 AM (3 years, 3 days ago)

I can't tell either way but I think you're right about the taz being ok. Transfer from like 10- 11 o clock in the taz plate.

As for the others, I can't see them at all but at least they're white.
It could be just thousands of strains climbing over one another. I'd still try a small transfer and see if the next plate cleans up. You can see better than me in person and with the lid removed, try to find a good spot. Do the taz first just in case.

One thing to try is making softer agar with more nutrition for germinating tricky spores.
Make sure you're shaking the shit out of that syringe and smacking it against something when you do. If those plates are coming out with no bacteria, then try a slightly larger squirt in a couple of the plates as well. Maybe there's just very few spores in that syringe.

So like 5-7g agar instead of 10g per 500ml And a little bit more LME if that's what you use. If you use grain water agar, I've boiled it down to half the volume to make concentrated grain water agar and it works well.


There are a few other tricks like hot pour which sounds risky, but I don't know a lot about them.

Edit: actually at 6 o clock on the GT plate looks like a nice colony with rhizomes growing toward the center of the plate. Pull from the top edge of the 6 o clock colony.

Burma looks weird but I've no clue, could still be ok.

Edit2: Shit yeah Ernie! Nice pins! :vibin::vibin::vibin::vibin:

You probably didn't hurt them putting them outside briefly. I've accidentally misted my pinning cakes with iso before and they were no worse for wear. If anything you might have given them a cold shock and triggered pinning sooner.


Edited by karri0n (02/12/21 11:32 AM)


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27202728 - 02/12/21 10:29 PM (3 years, 3 days ago)

Thanks for the advice. I wish I could get better pics because this stuff is strange. I wish I knew more about mycelium growth and what it looks like besides rizomorphic. This shit is bumpy and speradic. Some of its fuzzy.  Tut I’ll try to transfer it and see what happens. Guess I have to make up more plates. And I’ll try your recipe. Thanx for sticking with me.
I tried to take some close ups of those same plates.Is there other types of growth that is mycelium?


Edited by ErnieErgot67 (02/12/21 10:43 PM)


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Offlinekarri0n
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27202787 - 02/12/21 11:37 PM (3 years, 3 days ago)

Yeah man all you can really do is make a transfer and see what happens. Even if all the growth we see is cube mycelium, these T0 plates aren't suitable for inoculating grain anyway. The first step is a transfer regardless.


To my eye, all three of them could go either way. I am far from a pro at identifying plates though.


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: karri0n]
    #27202811 - 02/13/21 12:02 AM (3 years, 3 days ago)

Yeah neither am I and dont ever think I will be either. Since posting those last pictures I have spent the past, I don’t know two hours reading and looking at pictures of plates and mycelium. I thought I had the basics down… Wrong! There is so much to know and learn about agar and mycelium growth. There are so many different kinds and here I was thinking all there was was rizomorphic or that’s what they all end up as once you keep transferring. Or at least that was the goal was...to get to that rizomorphic phase.  Now I learned that there’s just all different types for all different varieties and I have no idea what they’re supposed to look like. That’s something that comes with years of training!!!  How the  hell am I supposed to learn what’s healthy and what’s not? What’s mycelium and what’s not? There are so many different types to go with all the different varieties of cubes that look different at all different stages!!!! The freaking possibilities are endless!  Uuuuuuuugh!!  Wtf?!?!  That is very frustrating and in my opinion almost impossible to learn.  It’s not like I have a class to go to where I have a professor to check my work. And for me to work under. Jeeeez man! So discouraging Brutha!


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Offlinekarri0n
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27203147 - 02/13/21 07:11 AM (3 years, 2 days ago)

Hah! Just wait until you run into hidden or entwined contams:tryingnottodie:


Nah, it doesn't take years. Just a few grows under your belt. It doesn't help that you started with like 12 different genetics though.


Mushroom mycelium tends to be better organized than mold mycelium. It gets easier to tell.

Bacteria always looks very distinct from mycelium.

Personally for me it's easier to say "that's definitely mold" than "that's definitely mycelium". Cube Mycelium is almost never powdery, green, or hairy. The burma plate looks like how lipstick mold usually presents for me. White with a Very fine and powdery look.


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OfflineFungi Rogers
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: karri0n]
    #27203880 - 02/13/21 03:15 PM (3 years, 2 days ago)

A little tip that might help stack your plates and put a couple of unused poured plates on top and it will move the condensation to the sides of the plates and get you a better view from the top. Only bad part is if you have some contam near the edge it’ll more then likely spread around if the water moves.

Also even though some of us aren’t replying we’re still watching this thread :smile:


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: karri0n]
    #27204119 - 02/13/21 05:17 PM (3 years, 2 days ago)

Oats are the easiest to prep and hardest to fuck up. The hull protects the grain, keeping it more intact, and some people think it might also be helpful to protect the mycelium during the shake.

Buy 13 bucks worth of oats(that's 50lb) from a feed store.

I use eat's easy oat prep tek.





There you go! Though I paid  $17.01  for my 50 pound bag. Looks like I got a whole lot of inoculation to do. I best get home and start cooking and PCing! How was that? Are you happy. I told you I follow directions… The correct directions in the correct suggestions. Now if I just knew what to do with this mess of contaminated anger that I have!! Shit I don’t even think it’s worth cleaning up the way this garbage looks. Please tell me that I bought the right type of oats because I don’t see a hole in the picture.


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Progress not perfection.
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OfflineMindful Mushi
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: ErnieErgot67]
    #27205259 - 02/14/21 10:47 AM (3 years, 1 day ago)

That white in the middle of the middle dish appears to be GT mycelium. Transfer it afew times to be sure.

If it is, it will start throwing pins eventually.

I think i got my hands on a good MSS with good GT genetics. Every cup i have has pins in vitro on day 10 . The tubs are pinning and fully colonized on day 10. This strain i have wants to grow fast and PIN sooo bad!





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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: Mindful Mushi]
    #27205461 - 02/14/21 12:37 PM (3 years, 1 day ago)

yea i'm not liking plate 2 either. Other 2 looks like maybes in certain parts. It's normal for your germ and t1's to look off. Gets better after 2 most of the time.

Oats are whole oats. It's the right kind. IDK why, but it seems fairly common for people to say they didn't like that brand. Idk if it's treated with something or what, but i tried it once and had hiccups but it worked.


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OfflineErnieErgot67
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Re: New guy. Trouble navigating /coversall and agar [Re: LtLurker]
    #27205866 - 02/14/21 04:23 PM (3 years, 1 day ago)

God dammit! That’s great. I’m told to go buy oats. I buy  some oats, I figure oats are oats and now I’m told oats or not oats. I can’t win.
On a better note at least I have fruit in two out of my four tubs! It’s not a full flush but I cannot complain for my first grow.
Nice to hear from you LT. It really is. I thought you forgot about me 😉 Yeah those plates not looking too well. I have a lot of work cut out for me tonight. I have to make up a batch of agar clean up my plates and make a slew of transfers, possibly make up a 1/2 pint of LC from agar, clean up my work area and make a bunch of transfers. While I am making up some I got I might as well PC some oats. You know?!  Those wrong oats???! LOL wish me luck.

NEXT QUESTION. ID LIKE A RECOMMENDATION ON A DEHYDRATOR $50-$100. Closer to $50 would be better of course. Thank you


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Progress not perfection.
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