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koods
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos]
#27198198 - 02/10/21 09:05 PM (3 years, 5 days ago) |
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Lol we’re talking about Newtonian physics. General relativity is irrelevant to something 300 meters long.
You also need an energy source to transform a body’s shape in the way described.
Quote:
The curvature of spacetime is very slight, so the ability to swim in spacetime is unlikely to lead to new propulsion devices. For a meter-sized object performing meter-sized deformations at the surface of the Earth, the displacement is of order 10-23 m (17).
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (02/10/21 09:19 PM)
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chibiabos
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
#27198236 - 02/10/21 09:31 PM (3 years, 5 days ago) |
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General relativity applies at any scale. Manifolds just do as manifolds do, being that they have the properties of a manifold.
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos]
#27198383 - 02/10/21 11:21 PM (3 years, 5 days ago) |
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Ive seen several stories talking about Physicist's Avi Loeb's ET Comet theory. Here's one of them: https://www.foxnews.com/science/physisist-explains-why-mysterious-interstellar-oumuamua-could-be-alien-spacecraft
Pretty interesting stuff!
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koods
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos]
#27198392 - 02/10/21 11:27 PM (3 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
chibiabos said: General relativity applies at any scale. Manifolds just do as manifolds do, being that they have the properties of a manifold.
I said it was irrelevant
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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chibiabos
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
#27198884 - 02/11/21 09:04 AM (3 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
chibiabos said: General relativity applies at any scale. Manifolds just do as manifolds do, being that they have the properties of a manifold.
I said it was irrelevant
A solid fucking mathematical proof if there ever was one. Herni Poincare would be proud.
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Svetaketu
The Devil's Avocado 🥑


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I'm with it until right here;
Quote:
Loeb told the website there was another object discovered that exhibited an excess push called 2020-SO, which he said ended up being a rocket booster from a failed mission of lunar lander, Surveyor II that was launched in 1966. He said because that object was artificially made and had no cometary trail, it "provides evidence" that we can tell the difference between a rock and an object -- like the rocket booster -- that is pushed by sunlight.
This is junk logic. The fact that it "exhibited an excess push" isn't evidence that it was space trash. There are many possible explanations for the way it acted, and if he wants to assert it's artificial, be needs actual evidence for that claim.
How did they determine 2020-SO was artificial for example?;
Quote:
Spectroscopic observations by NASA's Infrared Telescope Facility in December 2020 found that the object's spectrum is similar to that of stainless steel, confirming the object's artificial nature.
The fact that it had no tail and exhibited an "excess push" really didn't factor into proving whether it was artificial at all.
It's also pretty comedic to assert that we can tell the difference between rocks and space trash based on 1 piece of space trash
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Edited by Svetaketu (02/11/21 10:14 AM)
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trees


Registered: 02/08/09
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: Svetaketu]
#27199041 - 02/11/21 10:33 AM (3 years, 4 days ago) |
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We are the wrong people to preach your astrophysics knowledge to.
We are mere internet apes.
Use your superior knowledge of space materials to enter the arena with Avi Loeb and the other scientists. You are clearly needed by these people, because you have the secret knowledge to crush this Omouamua. Why wouldn't you want the truth to get out there?, since you are concerned with humanities issue with fake aliens. You want the world to be a better place.
Clearly you are the chosen one, now go get famous, you'll get on Joe Rogan, you'll get on Lex Fridmans podcast, at least 2 million will hear your voice.
So why dont you go do it?
You're so sure of yourself, you have a massive opportunity to get rich and famous and loved, all the things you could never achieve here on the shroomery
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Svetaketu
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
#27199226 - 02/11/21 11:51 AM (3 years, 4 days ago) |
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Avi Loeb doesn't need me to argue with him; I'm sure he has 100s of astrophysicist friends who have explained my perspective ad infinitum.
The truth is out there, for anyone who is actually looking. The majority of professionals in the field clearly disagree with Loeb; none of them are going to be invited to be on Joe Rogan. Why?
Because the media doesn't care about facts or science, they care about what sells. Alien conspiracy theories are a big seller.
No, I think my time is better spend talking to the average Joe. If I can convince enough of them to apply logic to baseless claims, maybe the market for this sensationalism will die.
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trees


Registered: 02/08/09
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: Svetaketu]
#27199455 - 02/11/21 02:10 PM (3 years, 4 days ago) |
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No it will never die. Does it even need to die? Can you explain exactly how its causing irreparable damage to humanity?
I'm interested in what loss you think we as humans have sustained as a result of alien stories and if you can actually measure that loss
Alien stories are only going up from here on out. Deal with it
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koods
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos] 1
#27199471 - 02/11/21 02:17 PM (3 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
chibiabos said:
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
chibiabos said: General relativity applies at any scale. Manifolds just do as manifolds do, being that they have the properties of a manifold.
I said it was irrelevant
A solid fucking mathematical proof if there ever was one. Herni Poincare would be proud. 
23 zeros after the decimal point is irrelevant. And that is at the surface of the earth, where there is a significant warping of spacetime due to being so close to a massive body. Spacetime isn’t nearly as warped when youre millions of miles from the nearest large gravitational well.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum



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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
#27199528 - 02/11/21 02:56 PM (3 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
chibiabos said:
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
chibiabos said: General relativity applies at any scale. Manifolds just do as manifolds do, being that they have the properties of a manifold.
I said it was irrelevant
A solid fucking mathematical proof if there ever was one. Herni Poincare would be proud. 
23 zeros after the decimal point is irrelevant. And that is at the surface of the earth, where there is a significant warping of spacetime due to being so close to a massive body. Spacetime isn’t nearly as warped when youre millions of miles from the nearest large gravitational well.
There isn't some magical scale whereby which general relativity suddenly becomes relevant. It's just the theory that you end up with if you don't assume that everything takes place in a Euclidean 3-space. You just manage to get away with being able to do that if you look at a small enough scale on account of the fact that you define the motions of bodies as curves that are embedded in a 3-manifold.
I might be fucking up terminology, but by 3-manifold I mean a sapcetime that, locally (i.e. within the neighborhood of some point therein) looks like a Euclidean 3-space.
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koods
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos]
#27199537 - 02/11/21 02:59 PM (3 years, 4 days ago) |
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Newtonian physics is all you need to consider for almost all orbital dynamics
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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chibiabos
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos]
#27199543 - 02/11/21 03:01 PM (3 years, 4 days ago) |
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Even if you only get a few pages into the Principia it makes sense. Newton literally told people that he was constraining his study to that sort of geometry, which isn't really a bad thing on his part. It's just that it developed for a specific kind of mathematical object with a specific sort of geometry that was really all that people at the time had managed to figure out and that several hundred years later people figured out a more general kind of geometry that could be applied to a more general sort of mathematical object.
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chibiabos
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
#27199546 - 02/11/21 03:03 PM (3 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Newtonian physics is all you need to consider for almost all orbital dynamics

Alternatively, you actually just aren't as good at physics as you want people to think that you are, mostly on account of the fact that you're to lazy to actually study.
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koods
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos]
#27199583 - 02/11/21 03:20 PM (3 years, 4 days ago) |
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I’m right. Even the paper you posted said their concept has no practical applications.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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chibiabos
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
#27199594 - 02/11/21 03:23 PM (3 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: I’m right. Even the paper you posted said their concept has no practical applications.
Practical applications are an abomination to pure mathematics.
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koods
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos]
#27199596 - 02/11/21 03:24 PM (3 years, 4 days ago) |
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Ok
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Svetaketu
The Devil's Avocado 🥑


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
#27199601 - 02/11/21 03:27 PM (3 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
trees said: No it will never die. Does it even need to die? Can you explain exactly how its causing irreparable damage to humanity?
I'm interested in what loss you think we as humans have sustained as a result of alien stories and if you can actually measure that loss
Alien stories are only going up from here on out. Deal with it
Sure.
I said I'd like the market for sensationalism to die; not alien stories.
Sensationalism - (especially in journalism) the use of exciting or shocking stories or language at the expense of accuracy, in order to provoke public interest or excitement.
I think sensationalism has a huge part to play in keeping us distracted, sedated, and bickering with each other rather than solving the actual problems that are ailing us.
My problem isn't with alien stories. Science fiction is great! the original "Alien" and John carpenter's "The Thing" are two of my all time favorite movies.
My problem is faulty logic. Faulty logic leads people to hurt each other and themselves, to vote against their own interest, to get swindled by conmen.
I agree, aliens are not the biggest issue. But your logic bleeds through into all aspects of your life. I've heard this same garbage argument used to justify belief in;
Zeus - I don't know where lightning comes from, it must be Zeus.
Ghosts - I can't explain this experience, so it must have been ghosts.
Oumuamua - I don't know what this object was or why it acted how it acted, it must have been aliens.
And many more.
They all rely on using a lack of evidence (for or against the proposition) to bolster their claim, which also has no evidence.
This is ass backwards, and leads people to incorrect conclusions. You cannot use a lack of evidence to support the conclusion you like the best.
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chibiabos
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: Svetaketu]
#27199605 - 02/11/21 03:29 PM (3 years, 4 days ago) |
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That's more of a philosophy of science issue than an astrophysics issue though. In the end, I think that people just really want to meet some aliens.
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Svetaketu
The Devil's Avocado 🥑


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos]
#27199725 - 02/11/21 04:33 PM (3 years, 4 days ago) |
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Not quite sure what you mean, I wasn't talking about an issue with astrophysics, just flaws in basic logic.
But agreed.
I want to meet aliens too! And I think there are real avenues that could lead us there.
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