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Throwaway
The wizard


Registered: 04/22/21
Posts: 843
Last seen: 2 days, 12 hours
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28243033 - 03/23/23 01:19 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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So I don't mean to be rude or to flat out disagree with you. But I'm just wondering on what you base the things you said in the OP. Now, don't get me wrong... 95% of the pics in your OP easily scream bacteria.
But with pics like these: https://files.shroomery.org/files/22-002/237113079-Screenshot_20220113-133107_Chrome.jpg
How did you confirm that the cause of this actually IS bacteria? Since most of us thought a jar like this to be clean for a very long time. Same with a jar that looks clean, but has some condensation at the top. You claim you're 98% sure that it's contaminated but I'm just not so sure.
Then later in your post you show us this pic which is "clean" but clearly has condensation at the top: https://files.shroomery.org/files/21-29/697344223-20210722_130331.jpg
Again your post will help a lot of people and has helped me for sure. I'm just wondering what made you think that bacteria caused this?
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sloug
Strangler


Registered: 02/07/22
Posts: 300
Last seen: 2 hours, 20 minutes
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: dowodenum]
#28243052 - 03/23/23 01:35 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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thanks dowodenum!! nope, just a handful of different cube varieties. im familiar with tamps and pans myco smells, which i love but, def not that. my thoughts exactly stipe, its for sure an unsettling sweet smell :/
my lc jars have injector ports but i use a double layer of micropore over a tiny hole for gas exchange. is this a shitty outdated method??
all my bags of all varieties have this smell despite lookin good so im wondering if its my inoculum thats tainted somehow. i also started using a diff lme which doesnt seem to be hydroscopic at all which makes me wonder but seems an unlikely source…

sorry for all the text, appreciate yalls time and input!!
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sloug
Strangler


Registered: 02/07/22
Posts: 300
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: sloug]
#28243070 - 03/23/23 01:50 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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throwaway, i think that second pic u reposted is actually a pic that stipe claimed he WOULDNT spawn bc of suspected bacteria.
it seems looks alone can be great indicators of healthy spawn but, from what im currently experiencing, looks alone are not 100% definitive by any means. and the point of this thread is just to help guide u in the right direction of detecting clean or bacterial spawn.
i have no input on that crazy spike fest tho…
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Throwaway
The wizard


Registered: 04/22/21
Posts: 843
Last seen: 2 days, 12 hours
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: sloug]
#28243081 - 03/23/23 01:56 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
sloug said: throwaway, i think that second pic u reposted is actually a pic that stipe claimed he WOULDNT spawn bc of suspected bacteria.
it seems looks alone can be great indicators of healthy spawn but, from what im currently experiencing, looks alone are not 100% definitive by any means. and the point of this thread is just to help guide u in the right direction of detecting clean or bacterial spawn.
i have no input on that crazy spike fest tho…
That second pic I reposted was straight under: "Some pictures of my own healthy spawn:"
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Throwaway
The wizard


Registered: 04/22/21
Posts: 843
Last seen: 2 days, 12 hours
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: Throwaway]
#28243082 - 03/23/23 01:57 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Again I'm not saying Stipe is wrong - I'm just wondering how he knows for sure that those spikes (and condensation) are caused by bacteria.
Edited by Throwaway (03/23/23 01:58 PM)
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Throwaway
The wizard


Registered: 04/22/21
Posts: 843
Last seen: 2 days, 12 hours
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: Throwaway]
#28243086 - 03/23/23 02:00 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Here another example:
"Some healthy PE running on white millet in a bag, to be used as grainmaster tomorrow."
https://files.shroomery.org/files/21-005/257854124-20210205_212823.jpg
It's completely filled with condensation?
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sloug
Strangler


Registered: 02/07/22
Posts: 300
Last seen: 2 hours, 20 minutes
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28243095 - 03/23/23 02:10 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: Makes sense, it's the only way to know what they're going to do ; )
I've spawned so much bad spawn over the years that I don't even have time for shit like this:

Took it out of the fridge and found too many white splotches, gave it a shake only to find that it recovered slow af. That jars going in a little outdoor planter whenever I can get around to it.
i guess we both stand corrected hah. maybe the OP needs a slight update. that being said, this particular jar despite other signals, has minimal condensation.
but im a noob for the most part so ill step out of this one.
Edited by sloug (03/23/23 02:13 PM)
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Stipe-n Cap
The Pride of Cucamonga


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 8,259
Loc: Canada
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: Throwaway]
#28243184 - 03/23/23 03:20 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Throwaway said: Again I'm not saying Stipe is wrong - I'm just wondering how he knows for sure that those spikes (and condensation) are caused by bacteria.
As mentioned in the OP, some condensation is normal especially if your temperature fluctuates. living organisms produce heat, that heat combined with the moisture content of grains will condense on the interior walls of the glass so long there's a difference in temperature between the internal atmosphere of the jar/bag, and its exterior. Jars/bags will not produce any condensation at all when the room is dialed to the internal state of your spawn vessels.
The presence of bacteria will produce excess heat due to the bacterial catabolic breakdown of grain, this heat is produced by a mechanism referred to as microbial thermogenesis. Microbial thermogenesis is the reason why compost piles experience "cooks".
Excessive* moisture condensing on glass will be an indication of excess internal heat produced by thriving bacteria, or even mold. Aggressive mold will produce excess heat/condensation as well, although easier to visually identify due to the nature of most molds.
Catabolism is a metabolic function, grains are broken down by metabolites which are omnipresent but invisible to the naked eye. Pairing visual cues like excessive condensation with excessive/visual metabolites will confirm a strong metabolic response from the mycelium. Secondary metabolites are produced to break down complex molecules which the fungal colony absorbs through the hyphal wall. Metabolites, in excess, are ustilized to combat infections from molds and bacteria.
Quote:
The major types of catabolism are: Protein catabolism: breaks down proteins into amino acids, and is catalyzed by proteases. Carbohydrate catabolism: breaks down polysaccharides, and is catalyzed by carbohydrases. Lipid catabolism: breaks down triglycerides into fatty acids and glycerol, and is catalyzed by lipases
All of this produces some small amount of heat. Mycelium will produce less heat than bacteria.
As for the stressed mycelium: bacteria is usually the appropriate call for stressed morphology, however, any stress will produce a stress response. My best guess, most of the time, is bacteria.
Pictures only tell part of the story, it's best to pair visual cues for accuracy when visually identifying features. The same is true with tracking animals, the more sign, the greater the accuracy.
The jar pictured above, my jar, was not fully colonized. Probably 2 or 3 days left, the condensation was due to a cool room.
Bags and jars will have condensation due to the presenceof a living organism (mycelium) which is catabolizimg the grain. You'll need to learn what amount is too much.
Edited by Stipe-n Cap (03/23/23 04:08 PM)
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Throwaway
The wizard


Registered: 04/22/21
Posts: 843
Last seen: 2 days, 12 hours
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28243237 - 03/23/23 04:07 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Thank you for your response, Stipe!
I checked out your YouTube vids and you also said you got some questions/comments on the whole condensation thing. Makes a lot of sense now with this comment added.
Quote:
Mycelium will generate very small amounts of thermal activity which will cause a small amount of condensation if your room is cool, but 98% of the time condensation is bad news.
I guess I misunderstood that part about it having to be excessive.
The stress thing makes sense too. Would you say this could happen to a culture that just spent a long-ass time in a jar?
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Stipe-n Cap
The Pride of Cucamonga


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 8,259
Loc: Canada
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: Throwaway] 1
#28243247 - 03/23/23 04:15 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Possibly, yes. This is why pairing visual cues is important. Some cues presented on their own may not be cause for much alarm, condensation is a great example; but, when paired with pooling metabolites, or uncolonized grains, etc, etc, thing start to become far more obvious, imo.
Clearly there are those who very strongly disagree.
I'm not a real mycologist so I do my best to make a patchwork of knowledge resulting from personal experience and consulting the relevant literature regarding mycology and microbiology. I am not always 100% accurate but do my best to make sense of the complex world of microorganism as viewed through a glass jar or plastic bag.
The idea of condensation being linked to microbial/fungal metabolism appears to be a topic of contention for youtubers, but, such is the nature of the internet.
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Throwaway
The wizard


Registered: 04/22/21
Posts: 843
Last seen: 2 days, 12 hours
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 1
#28243298 - 03/23/23 05:00 PM (1 year, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: Possibly, yes. This is why pairing visual cues is important. Some cues presented on their own may not be cause for much alarm, condensation is a great example; but, when paired with pooling metabolites, or uncolonized grains, etc, etc, thing start to become far more obvious, imo.
Clearly there are those who very strongly disagree.
I'm not a real mycologist so I do my best to make a patchwork of knowledge resulting from personal experience and consulting the relevant literature regarding mycology and microbiology. I am not always 100% accurate but do my best to make sense of the complex world of microorganism as viewed through a glass jar or plastic bag.
The idea of condensation being linked to microbial/fungal metabolism appears to be a topic of contention for youtubers, but, such is the nature of the internet.
Yeah I've been searching around on the forum and it's still a big debate apparently. Though, we can't deny the fact that heavy condensation is always present when a jar is contaminated.
Thanks again for this post!
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altford78
What do I put here

Registered: 05/09/23
Posts: 890
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: Throwaway] 1
#28357877 - 06/13/23 01:59 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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This thread should be stickied.
Anyway, I'll contribute some pics, might help somebody who didn't read all 50pages of the thread.
Bacterial jars that molded 4-5 days after spawning.
  
New jars that will be spawned tomorrow-ish. Better than the previous batch (no sporadic rhizo exploratory growth) but still bacterial so they will probably mold in 7 days instead of 5 this time. I might pick the worst one for top fruiting for funsies.

Look at this sneaky motherfucker here.
More jars that will be spawned, different inoculation source. These don't look technically bacterial, but there's still something icky about them. I don't know what, if you guys can put it to words let me know. It's just off. The myc doesn't seem to want to blend together nicely into a cohesive structure.
-------------------- Mold cultivator extraordinaire
I also dabble in bacteria
I'm also a retard sometimes
Edited by altford78 (06/13/23 02:00 AM)
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Hysteria
Bum Looker


Registered: 02/19/23
Posts: 996
Loc: New England USA
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: altford78]
#28357934 - 06/13/23 05:02 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Are these all from LC?
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altford78
What do I put here

Registered: 05/09/23
Posts: 890
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: Hysteria]
#28357942 - 06/13/23 05:13 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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no just the bottom ones (last row of pics). The rest is agar wedges.
-------------------- Mold cultivator extraordinaire
I also dabble in bacteria
I'm also a retard sometimes
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Hysteria
Bum Looker


Registered: 02/19/23
Posts: 996
Loc: New England USA
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: altford78]
#28357951 - 06/13/23 05:25 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Wow they colonized a lot faster than my t1s. This is at 21 days and 4 days after 2nd shake.
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altford78
What do I put here

Registered: 05/09/23
Posts: 890
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: Hysteria]
#28358013 - 06/13/23 07:07 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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did they look ok before the shake? I'd be worried after 4 days.
-------------------- Mold cultivator extraordinaire
I also dabble in bacteria
I'm also a retard sometimes
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Hysteria
Bum Looker


Registered: 02/19/23
Posts: 996
Loc: New England USA
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: altford78]
#28358016 - 06/13/23 07:09 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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They looked ok besides going slow. One of them did get tossed because it molded though. I don't really expect anything from these.
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altford78
What do I put here

Registered: 05/09/23
Posts: 890
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: Hysteria]
#28358148 - 06/13/23 09:22 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Sucks when they stall like that with no good reason. At least with visible contamination you know.
-------------------- Mold cultivator extraordinaire
I also dabble in bacteria
I'm also a retard sometimes
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Hysteria
Bum Looker


Registered: 02/19/23
Posts: 996
Loc: New England USA
Last seen: 1 month, 26 days
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: altford78]
#28358595 - 06/13/23 03:33 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Well, not exactly stalled, but not off to the races, either. Here is today, 2 days later.
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Way
The


Registered: 01/14/23
Posts: 4,336
Loc: A long way away
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Re: Clean spawn checklist for the new grower. [Re: Hysteria] 2
#28358617 - 06/13/23 03:50 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Those jars should be done by now. Something is up.
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That's the way she goes, boys. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't, cause that's the fuckin way she goes.
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